Hall Sensors, can i get rid of them ?

[Dynamic]

I just bought a 9c motor and after a week one of the hall sensors is faulty (I think)
the motor worked fine untill the bike fell off it's stand and cut one of the wires,
After repairing the wire the motor makes a weird noise and it sometimes won't spin unless i move the wheel manually.

So I'm guessing one of the sensors are gone, I tested it by disconnecting one wire at a time (the 5 small wires) and applying throttle and the blue wire is the one that makes no difference (the green and yellow gives a big jerk when disconnected)

Is there a way to get rid of these hall sensors?
Why are they there, is it just to determine speed? is there a way to run a brushless motor without the hall sensors?
or do i need to replace it?

 

[itchynackers]

I seem to be having the same issues as I type. See my thread here...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23200&start=15

Let me know if you figure out anything.

 

[Dynamic]

I seem to be having the same issues as I type. See my thread here...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23200&start=15

Let me know if you figure out anything.

Thanks for that thread, (i will follow it) I have searched on here and couldn't find anything about this (maybe because my search words didn't match)

but from reading on another site, it is a hall sensor issue (i could be wrong)
fetcher has a post on here (somewhere ) on an easy setup (with LED's) on how to check hall sensors, but i did it the other way (by disconnecting one wire at a time) and the blue wire (in my case) is at fault.

I would just like to get rid of the sensors completely if it's possible.

 

[Ypedal]

The sensors are likely fine, but the damaged wires need to be dealt with.

You " could " get a sensorless ( pedal first ) controller and not use the hall sensor wires.. but instant start controllers are better imo, .. pain in the rump job but opening the motor, pulling the wire in to clear and discard the damaged section of cable and ride again !

 

[Dynamic]

The sensors are likely fine, but the damaged wires need to be dealt with.

You " could " get a sensorless ( pedal first ) controller and not use the hall sensor wires.. but instant start controllers are better imo, .. pain in the rump job but opening the motor, pulling the wire in to clear and discard the damaged section of cable and ride again !

If the only way to get rid of the sensors is to get a pedal first controller then forget it, i would rather repair my problem.

I have opened the motor cover on the wire side and pulled the wires out but came to find out that i can't get to the sensors from there.
the sensors are on the freewheel side, (i don't know why) I'll have to figure out how to get at them, and try to find someone that sells sensors for this motor.

@itchynackers
if i find a sensor and am able to replace it, i will post back my results (it might help with your problem)

Sorry Ypedal, should have mentioned that i did repair the wire first before taking the cover off.

The sensors are likely fine, but the damaged wires need to be dealt with.

 

[itchynackers]

Sounds good, thanks.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

The chances are that the sensors will be OK and it'll just be the wires that are damaged.

You can test the sensors by making up the simple tester shown below:



The LED should flash on and off as you turn the motor, with the LED being ON when the Hall sensor output is low. Any small 6 to 9V battery will run this OK. Generally the Hall positive wire will be red and the negative wire will be black.

Jeremy

 

[Dynamic]

Thanks for that Jeremy, but as i stated earlier, the wires are fine.
one wire got cut when the bike fell over, and i repaired it,
The test i did was while the wheel was still on the bike, (the wheel would not spin sometimes unless i moved it by hand, and when it did move it, it made a weird noise, like a grinding noise)

So i disconnected the thin wires one at a time (yellow, green and blue) and gave throttle, the yellow and green, when disconnected, gave a weird jerk, lockup of the wheel, but the blue wire made no difference when disconnected, the wheel still made that noise and i still had to manually turn the wheel before it would spin, so i'm thinking it's that sensor.

After taking the cover off i rechecked the wires and they are fine (no cuts) i even made sure the wires were not cut inside their Insolation. (unless the wire is cut close to the sensor, which i haven't got to yet, i need to take the other cover off.

I must be missing something here, because even after i stated that i repaired the wires, you and Ypedal (which have alot more experience then i do with this stuff) are saying that the sensors should be fine.

I will make the tester you showed above Jeremy, and see if it could be something else.
but i don't think this test (with the LED) will tell me if it's a wire or sensor, if it's a wire the LED won't flash, and if it's the sensor the LED still won't flash. Am i right ?

i will still do the test.
Thanks.

EDIT:
Sorry, just thought about this, and i think the test (you suggested) should be done at the sensor, not at the wires (coming out of the axle)
i will test that.
Thanks.

 

[chvidgov.bc.ca]

Hall sensors are a non-issue for me...the "universal" sensorless controllers from bmsbattery are excellent controllers, are cheap, and you only need to be moving very slightly, less than 1 mph, to get engagement. I don't use them anymore, and I don't miss them. There is also very little cogging on a 9C with those controllers. Buy one for a spare controller, in case your Halls die somewhere in rural Saskatchewan! I haven't learned how to hook up a cycleanalyst to them though - that's the only downside for my purposes..but you can use a Turnigy instead..or a CA standalone model.

 

[dogman dan]

Lyens, in the for sale section can supply you with some new sensors. I just had a similar problem, and it was the sensors. Lyens supplied me with some sensors with a short piece of wire already soldered on, which made this sensor replacement a snap for me compared to the last one. If you have a good soldering station, you won't need the wires, but for me it was a great help. Not so hard to replace the halls when it's a simple matter to connect 9 wires.

On the other solution, High Tech Bikes has a pretty good sensorless controller. You don't HAVE to pedal first, but rolling forward an inch as you start does help it get going. It's a typical 20 amp controller for the usual hubmotor kit.


There is a possibility that it is the wire, but damage is not visible. It could be anywhere along the wire. For me, it's happened twice, when I let the cable contact the tire.

 

[BLUESTREAK]

LYEN also has controllers the run with hall pluged in and run without halls plug in.

 

[Dynamic]

Thanks for all your replies.
When i opened the other cover and just touched the blue wire, it fell right off the sensor, when looked at with a magnifying glass, it looks burnt.

I wanted one right away, and i can't believe i can't find one here, in or near Toronto

E-bikes has them for $2.50 but shipping is $15, Digikey has them for $1.80, but shipping is $20,

I guess i'll send LYEN a pm and see if he has any left, I just wish i could find them here, so i can ride the bike tomorrow :lol:

Also, I will look into those sensorless controllers, if i only have to move the bike an inch or to for it to kick in, i might get one for backup.

 

[BikeFanatic]

re sensorless-- I have two Sensorless controllers from John rob holmes (holmes hobby ) he is an ES member, and i believe they work from zero RPM's-- I love sensorless no issues with my 9C front . The one I bought wass 60-70 with shipping, and works on my 36 volt 9c as well as my PING 54-60 volt.

and maybe telephone ebikes . ca on that shipping - it doesnt cost 15 $ to send one little sensor they can put it in an envelope.

 

[BLUESTREAK]

Better to get them from LYEN because he will add 0in.---6in. of wire on that almost invisible little tinnnnny thing.

 

[Dynamic]

and maybe telephone ebikes . ca on that shipping - it doesnt cost 15 $ to send one little sensor they can put it in an envelope.

Phone them :lol: I ordered a 30amp controller from them 2 months ago, they sent me a 200A continuous (~600A peak) Shunt for High Current Cycle Analysts ..0.25 mOhm by mistake.

I phoned them and it cost me $30 for the phone call to sort it out, (long distance) it would cost $15 for me to send the shunt back by Canada Post (obviously they would need to pay me back for the shipping to send it back) so they told me it's not worth it, that i could keep it.

Honestly, I have no idea how to use the shunt, so if anyone needs it, you can have it.

They did send my controller out right away, and i got it in 3 days.

So a phone call is out of the question,
and i did email them for a quote for 3 sensors and it comes out to $25.76

I guess that's how companies make money, because these sensors weight nothing, you can put it in an envelope (as ianmcnally2 said) and send it as a letter for $1 or less,

No disrespect to any company, but if LYEN can send a sensor from California for $3, something is wrong.