Headway Battery rust
- Thread starter echas
- Start date
AndyH
10 kW
Thanks Don. Trying to keep track of the players in this market is like trying to hit those moving archery targets in Wii Resort. 
It's true, and I have been guilty in the past for some of this problem, but after 4 years LiFeBATT can finally start clean with a good mfg. partner in Taiwan - actually with the original Scientist who created the well regarded Green Cells which were mfg. by PSI. So we have re-formed our team after a very rough period and very problematic QC to make this P-20 launch as successful as the original 10Ah Cells were. We will be sending them to Sandia Labs like we did with the original cells. Please do not confuse LiFeBATT with whatever copy cat names our previous mfg. wants to come up with.
BMI
100 W
What a load of baloney!Battboy said:
Please provide evidence of this?
Warranty is not "Asia based" as you claim. Any warranty issues/service for my local customers (Australia / New Zealand) is taken care of by my own technicians (under my personal guidance and training).
Any warranty issues in the USA are taken care of by our LiFeTech service agent in Oklahoma.
People can make up their own minds if they trust Don Harmon from past experiences. Most people are pretty smart and if they get burned once they learn from their mistakes and don't go back to the same source to get burned a second time.
The one issue I do agree on and believe will be very confusing for the consumer is the name "Lifebatt" and what it means.
Don Harmon owns the rights to the trademark name "Lifebatt" in the USA while the Lifebatt factory in Taiwan owns the trademark to the name in Taiwan. I own the rights to the name "Lifebatt" here in Australia but now only trade under our parent companies name of LiFeTech Energy after formerly being known as Battery Manufacturer's International (BMI).
So there is effectively a company named Lifebatt in the USA and a company with the same name in Taiwan.
Very confusing indeed!!
If Don Harmon wants to sever all ties with Lifebatt (the factory in Taiwan) then it would make sense he trades under a new name since I can't see the factory giving up the name "Lifebatt".
BMI said:
Since the name "LiFeBATT" is Don's own creation and his U.S. Corp. is LiFeBATT, Inc. it would make NO sense to trade under a new name
Looks like it would make more sense for LifeTech to not try trading under LiFeBATT's registered Trademark, since the U.S. mark is much stronger and will stand up in court. Besides LifTech's new parent company is the Panjit Group.
rkosiorek
100 kW
Ahhh! the smell of testosterone in the morning. It smells like... it smells pretty disgusting really. especially sincy i'm not a female oranguatang in heat.
so just to keep myself clear. i will start refering to LifeBATT USA as LifeBATT USA. just to keep thing perfectly clear i will refer to the other one as LifeTech.
All of the cells that i have used have een the original PSI manufactured LifeBATT USA "GREEN" cells i purchased directly from LifeBATT USA. I have been satisfied with these cells and their performance.
rick
so just to keep myself clear. i will start refering to LifeBATT USA as LifeBATT USA. just to keep thing perfectly clear i will refer to the other one as LifeTech.
All of the cells that i have used have een the original PSI manufactured LifeBATT USA "GREEN" cells i purchased directly from LifeBATT USA. I have been satisfied with these cells and their performance.
rick
BMI
100 W
Battboy said:Since the name "LiFeBATT" is Don's own creation and his U.S. Corp. is LiFeBATT, Inc. it would make NO sense to trade under a new name
....so since "the US mark is much stronger and will stand up in court" (as don Harmon says) it will be interesting to see how it holds up against the same trademark covering the rest of the world which was registered in all of the countries outside of the USA before Don Harmon decided to copy it and register it in the USA.
Sounds like a silly move to have several worldwide distributors working for Lifebatt USA and then decide to give up all of these international distributors due to the fact that Lifebatt USA owns the trademark in the USA only. Lifebatt Taiwan owns the registered trademarks throughout most of the rest of the world including Taiwan, Japan, China, Europe and Australia.
The Lifebatt trademark was registered in all of these countries in November 2007, before the trademark was registered in the USA by Don Harmon in January 2008.
Since Lifebatt USA can no longer sell their product outside of the USA it looks like all of the former Lifebatt international distributors will now work for Lifebatt Taiwan (LiFeTech Energy).....hello to Ian, Nils and the others! I will look forward to working with you again and updating you on the new products which I am developing/designing with the factory engineers.
To go from being in charge of international distributors from a USA base to going it alone definitely sounds like a big backward step. A bit like buying a new 2010 model car and selling it a few months later to buy a 2005 model.
frodus
10 kW
I'll just sit here eating my......
Battboy said:
Is this my Q to send Bob McCree an email to let him know you will be sending him a new battery pack of his choice ?
June 16 2009
Quote Don Harmon:
" OK, now I know that I have said this before - but I promise you personally not to EVER post on E.S. again! If I ever do - I will send you a brand new LiFeBATT XPS pack. Now this statement you can post if you like, but I would appreciate the rest of this email remain private between you and I. "
End Quote
BMI
100 W
Congratulations on your new pack!Ypedal said:
Please feel free to contact me directly for any future technical advice or service required since Don Harmon will not be providing any after sales support any longer.
If it is a battery pack of your choice you may as well make the most of it and go with a 144V pack.
Just think, with that 144V baby on your e-bike you will be able to leave Doc behind down the drag strip!!
miro13car
100 kW
I missed many posts from this thread, but I want to correct something I wrote.
sorry, Armin and others,
Regarding my post March 18,
"LifeBatt/BMI is history..." - what I ment LifeBatt/BMI stud terminal GREY cells are history, they are no longer made, only PSI stud terminal cells without Pchostech powder content are made.
And is there still BMI or has been replaced by LifeTech?
I understand it was replaced by LifeTech.
MC
sorry, Armin and others,
Regarding my post March 18,
"LifeBatt/BMI is history..." - what I ment LifeBatt/BMI stud terminal GREY cells are history, they are no longer made, only PSI stud terminal cells without Pchostech powder content are made.
And is there still BMI or has been replaced by LifeTech?
I understand it was replaced by LifeTech.
MC
rkosiorek
100 kW
frodus,
thanks, i got a case of the munchies, so i stole your popcorn while you weren't looking. needs more butter.
rick
thanks, i got a case of the munchies, so i stole your popcorn while you weren't looking. needs more butter.
rick
miro13car
100 kW
Don,
Once I know you read this thred and ES again - let me tell you your HPS 36V10Ah re-built pack performs well after 2 winters 2 summers.
Pack delivers solid peformance and over 9Ah of capacity easly.
I love to power my TidalForce with this pack.
So bad grey 10Ah cell is no more.
MC
Once I know you read this thred and ES again - let me tell you your HPS 36V10Ah re-built pack performs well after 2 winters 2 summers.
Pack delivers solid peformance and over 9Ah of capacity easly.
I love to power my TidalForce with this pack.
So bad grey 10Ah cell is no more.
MC
Thanks, Miro for posting this. What you have is the original PSI made Cells in your Pack. These were designed by the same Scientist who is now working for LiFeBATT on our new 20Ah Prismatic Cells. These were historically the best 10Ah LiFeP04 made cells as tested by Sandia Labs. Everyone, few exceptions vouches for them. We put our own LiFeBATT trademark on them and it is our Trademark. You may hear stories of how our mfg. partner stole our trademark and registered it on other countries - which he did, but that is just an example of why LiFeBATT is no longer doing business with LifeTech/BMI/ Panjit Group/ whatever other names they choose to use?
When our mfg. partner LifeTech / BMI took the production to Headway in China the Cell QC had a 40% failure rate which is why LiFeBATT has severed ties with LifeTech now plus they sold their company to a Chinese based investment company in Taiwan called the Panjit Group. LiFeBATT wants nothing to do with Chineses made cells anymore.
That is why we have formed a new partnership with the original PSI Scientist and Business partners to produce the new LiFeBATT 20Ah Cell Plug & Play Battery Packs. You might like to know that when LiFeBATT was started in 2007 Armin was one of four International Distributors that LiFeBATT initially set up. He was fired and replaced in about 3 months with another group in Australia. He likes to brag that he is some kind of world wide distrubutor ? - but the face is he is simply one of many that LifeTech/Panjit Group will now be trying to establish on the reputation of the original LiFeBATT name and Trademark which we founded. Such is the way of business in our modern world.
But, make no mistake; LiFeBATT is and will be, continuing to offer the best quality Plug and Play LiFeP04 Products in the marketplace. Watch us and check our website in a few days as things are changing fast and LiFeBATT is looking forward to a very exciting future. We know we can't be everyone's cup of tea but are going to keep on trying!
When our mfg. partner LifeTech / BMI took the production to Headway in China the Cell QC had a 40% failure rate which is why LiFeBATT has severed ties with LifeTech now plus they sold their company to a Chinese based investment company in Taiwan called the Panjit Group. LiFeBATT wants nothing to do with Chineses made cells anymore.
That is why we have formed a new partnership with the original PSI Scientist and Business partners to produce the new LiFeBATT 20Ah Cell Plug & Play Battery Packs. You might like to know that when LiFeBATT was started in 2007 Armin was one of four International Distributors that LiFeBATT initially set up. He was fired and replaced in about 3 months with another group in Australia. He likes to brag that he is some kind of world wide distrubutor ? - but the face is he is simply one of many that LifeTech/Panjit Group will now be trying to establish on the reputation of the original LiFeBATT name and Trademark which we founded. Such is the way of business in our modern world.
But, make no mistake; LiFeBATT is and will be, continuing to offer the best quality Plug and Play LiFeP04 Products in the marketplace. Watch us and check our website in a few days as things are changing fast and LiFeBATT is looking forward to a very exciting future. We know we can't be everyone's cup of tea but are going to keep on trying!
Jeremy Harris
100 MW
This is really hilarious!
Don't you guys peddling this stuff realise that arguing like this on a world wide forum just denigrates your image and that of your products?
A year or so ago I witnessed stuff from Lifebatt that convinced me never to buy from them. Frankly I'm now forming the same view about any battery manufacturer with the word "Life" in the title.
Maybe I should just sit back and watch the pissing contest develop. Pass the popcorn.................
Don't you guys peddling this stuff realise that arguing like this on a world wide forum just denigrates your image and that of your products?
A year or so ago I witnessed stuff from Lifebatt that convinced me never to buy from them. Frankly I'm now forming the same view about any battery manufacturer with the word "Life" in the title.
Maybe I should just sit back and watch the pissing contest develop. Pass the popcorn.................
frodus
10 kW
miro13car
100 kW
Just to make it clear,
I don`t take sides, I want to stay neutral
this is no "pissing contest",
just look how much information had been uncovered in little time.
I am in the search for the best cell out there.
I want the best cell, because it is the cheapest over long term, like example of BMI/LifeBatt cell shows.
I clearly distinguish beetwen bad service and bad product.
Just , because selling person is not perfect, it doesn`t mean product is not the best.
I was dealing with Armin, liked his customer service, lot's of technical advice, I was dealing with Don also.
I disagree with Rick Kosiorek,
it is atmost importance where cells are made.
Do you want cells from manufacturer witch has more than 20% failed cells manufactured???
How are you sure your cells from bad manufacturer will last long?
What else can happen with cells made in not clean, disorganized factory.
If LifeTech cancelled contract with Headway it would be great, but it worry me they are still using metal cans very much the same as Headway cells?
I know new 36V10Ah pack is cheaper than HPS 36V10Ah.
wHAT does it say?
strange
MC
MC
I don`t take sides, I want to stay neutral
this is no "pissing contest",
just look how much information had been uncovered in little time.
I am in the search for the best cell out there.
I want the best cell, because it is the cheapest over long term, like example of BMI/LifeBatt cell shows.
I clearly distinguish beetwen bad service and bad product.
Just , because selling person is not perfect, it doesn`t mean product is not the best.
I was dealing with Armin, liked his customer service, lot's of technical advice, I was dealing with Don also.
I disagree with Rick Kosiorek,
it is atmost importance where cells are made.
Do you want cells from manufacturer witch has more than 20% failed cells manufactured???
How are you sure your cells from bad manufacturer will last long?
What else can happen with cells made in not clean, disorganized factory.
If LifeTech cancelled contract with Headway it would be great, but it worry me they are still using metal cans very much the same as Headway cells?
I know new 36V10Ah pack is cheaper than HPS 36V10Ah.
wHAT does it say?
strange
MC
MC
miro13car
100 kW
I visited LifeBatt website and what I am seeing ?
No more stud terminal cells , just screw Headway -like XPS called cells.
What was wro9ng with stud, why to make cell look exactely like Headway, or is it Headway?
iN ADDITION TO RUST problem , there is new problem on Headway cells:
all epoxy, or plastic end ring on negative terminal crumbling and falling off?
Just look "epoxy repair " thread.
MC
No more stud terminal cells , just screw Headway -like XPS called cells.
What was wro9ng with stud, why to make cell look exactely like Headway, or is it Headway?
iN ADDITION TO RUST problem , there is new problem on Headway cells:
all epoxy, or plastic end ring on negative terminal crumbling and falling off?
Just look "epoxy repair " thread.
MC
frodus
10 kW
The end studs on any of the threaded terminals or studs are NOT LOAD BEARING. They're meant to secure the bussbar only. There's no way to tell if the test pack he built put pressure on the end that had the epoxy. He also could have overtorqued it if he used a normal screwdriver and not a screwdriver with a torque setting. He could have picked up the pack wrong and caused stress on that terminal. As far as I know, the headway styled cells (lifetech, lifebat, headway...etc) use expoxy, but they're not meant to hold the weight of the battery or withstand excess torque. You still need to support the actual battery case.
Its likely user error.
Its likely user error.
miro13car
100 kW
Jeremy, arguing like this
is very good thing for us here
putting pieces of info togather, drawing conclusions creates picture.
after all this thread it is hard to believe Headway style cells are not made by Headway.
Even if there are not made by Headwy , there are still made with rusting cans provided by Chinese.
What is your conclusion?
MC
is very good thing for us here
putting pieces of info togather, drawing conclusions creates picture.
after all this thread it is hard to believe Headway style cells are not made by Headway.
Even if there are not made by Headwy , there are still made with rusting cans provided by Chinese.
What is your conclusion?
MC
olaf-lampe
10 kW
miro13car said:
I remember Don already stated, they were made by headway.
BUT they insisted on a thicker coating on their cans.
Right?
Olaf
Jeremy Harris
100 MW
MC,
I have no problem with a bit of investigative probing to try and establish the truth. What I was reading in this thread was a pissing contest between a couple of vendors, both of whom were doing themselves no favours.
Jeremy
I have no problem with a bit of investigative probing to try and establish the truth. What I was reading in this thread was a pissing contest between a couple of vendors, both of whom were doing themselves no favours.
Jeremy
BMI
100 W
olaf-lampe said:
No, incorrect. They are not made by Headway. Only the very first few batches of cells (red cells) were made by Headway. None of the current cells (platinum cells) are made by Headway. It is not worth the hassles of using a manufacturer that supplies you with 25% - 30% of cells which are made in their factory which are not up to specification.
BMI
100 W
So if someone is telling what you know are to be complete lies do you believe it is best to keep quiet and say nothing or try and set the record straight?Jeremy Harris said:
miro13car
100 kW
Olaf,
it was Armin who wrote about isisting on thicker coat.
Don wrote that they are now devoloping/offering?/ new 20Ah prismatic cell pack.
He wrote LifEbATT doesn't want to do anything with hEADWAY.
Read his post.
LifeBatt doesn't want to have anything with Headway?
But look at their web site , they offer XPS cells which looks exactely like Headway.
Frodus, everobody tech-oriented knows terminals are not for any load bearing .
What puzzle me why they abondoned well profen threaded stud terminal design.
I own pack with BMI/LifeBatt grey cells rebuild into another enclosure , was experimenting with those grey cells a lot - they are sturdy, no rusting, beutiful cells, if they wanted to increase capacity change stuff inside but why to give up on good mech design.
As epoxy incident indicate also screw terminal can be overtighten.
The only answer they abondoned is that they wanted Chinese cell from Headway, 18 dollars cell assambled into Taiwan packs
instead of grey 30-35dollars cell.
As I said before I can buy Headway for $16 and play with it, apply extra coat , remove rust, check on it every couple of months, but don't put this cell in $750 36V 10Ah made in Taiwan pack and try to sell it to me.
MC
it was Armin who wrote about isisting on thicker coat.
Don wrote that they are now devoloping/offering?/ new 20Ah prismatic cell pack.
He wrote LifEbATT doesn't want to do anything with hEADWAY.
Read his post.
LifeBatt doesn't want to have anything with Headway?
But look at their web site , they offer XPS cells which looks exactely like Headway.
Frodus, everobody tech-oriented knows terminals are not for any load bearing .
What puzzle me why they abondoned well profen threaded stud terminal design.
I own pack with BMI/LifeBatt grey cells rebuild into another enclosure , was experimenting with those grey cells a lot - they are sturdy, no rusting, beutiful cells, if they wanted to increase capacity change stuff inside but why to give up on good mech design.
As epoxy incident indicate also screw terminal can be overtighten.
The only answer they abondoned is that they wanted Chinese cell from Headway, 18 dollars cell assambled into Taiwan packs
instead of grey 30-35dollars cell.
As I said before I can buy Headway for $16 and play with it, apply extra coat , remove rust, check on it every couple of months, but don't put this cell in $750 36V 10Ah made in Taiwan pack and try to sell it to me.
MC
