Help: bike turns on its own

[Kennyken5072]

Hi All,
I have stealth bomber clone and until now been fine few problems nothing mad until.

The bike is switched off and key is removed with alarm switched on.
I went to measure the swing arm and moved the bike slightly and it turned itself on and the rear wheel span up pushing off the the stand braking it thankfully it landed on a 2str sofa, i then put the bike on a padock stand and tried to do same again the bike switched on again and rear wheel span up hard if wasn't for the fact was on padock stand would have been carnage !!!!.
Now the ignition was off key removed and alarm was on the park brake was engaged (yes it has a handbrake like a car) this should dis-able the motor once brake engaged as it was.
when bike is switched on all is fine as brake dis-engages the motor so not a problem.

My thinking is fit a kill switch either at the Motor Hall connection where there are 5 or 6 for the hall connector block or on the controller where the 3 main cables that go directly to the motor but these are heavy cables am guessing around 6-8mm whereas the block connection are std 1-3 mm cable am thinking.


Advise on the options or something i haven't thought be most grateful.

 

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A heavy gauge wire loop solderd into a male xt90 anti-spark connector perhaps re-enforced with a coil of paracord secured with CA glue makes an easy to pull break in a battery feed wire.. Far cheaper and easier than High power contactor switches.. and disconnecting the power source is as basic as it gets.


However your bike as is is dangerous, and the problem is best found and corrected. from the above description i would initially focus on the connections between controller and display/power switch, and pas/throttle inputs, Brake cut off failure is VERY Concerning! - have you worked on the controllers guts before?

 

[Kennyken5072]

Hi thank for your help, this fault seems to be from delivery direct from the factory now and then be doing something bike switched off it'd turn on few seconds then turn off.
Had a big problem broken wire on the ignition barrel so pretty much had the guts of the bike out tracing the fault. Until today never had this power up and wheel turned on spun up hard as said if hadn't had it on paddock stand it'd been mental out of control. Hense why want kill switch directly to the motor so when switch it off can kill the motor as well but not affect the alarm for what it's worth, I just thought dis-connect alarm try see if turns on and see but want be careful could cause ton More problems so think killswitch from controller to motor will stop it. Also am looking to register bike on the road legally so it'll need killswitch anyway part of the conformancey test it'll have to pass I've lot of work to prepare it anyway.
Thanks mate I'd appreciate advice on what voltage or ampage for the cable from controller to motor, oh I'll try alarm test and let you know what happens.
Thanks Steve

 

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Might be worth checking the availability of any insurance cover before spending any cash towards legalising the bike as an e-moped. Afaik no uk insurer is interested in offering cover beyond a few dealer/manufacturer negotiated contracts on specific production bikes.

If your alarm is correctly wired into the brake cut off system Its failure to stop the motor from engaging is alarming.
even an errant throttle voltage spike or pedal assist sensor nudge should be blocked by that. (pull the alarm for now imho it may just be complicating things..)

Post pics of the damaged parts - get your bike into expected working condition before worrying about alarms and mods to comply with regs perhaps..

 

[Kennyken5072]

hey,
thanks for advise will use the 'Q' plate route and use modified one off build insurance company done it before just different power source.
and the alarm as you say should kill all voltage and shouldn't be any surges or spiking/glitches, so going to fit 500amp kill switch to the live cable at the breaker connection and dump the alarm that's on it and get a better wireless/tracker and usb battery charge point battery last quite a while between recharging and won't have the the worry of alarm causing any problems.
putting the bike on the road you have to pass a compliance test for imported vehicles that haven't got EU certification or mainstream manufactures importing licensing bla bla bla.
it's doesn't matter what power source its about safety and built to standard using BS/ISO certifications materials etc,etc. The bike will be to standard and I'll go through the 240 page book for conformance in detail. the way things are going in the uk if you want ride these high power bikes you'll have to get them road legal or feds take them off you and scrap them out of 14 times seen police 11 weren't interested the other 3 well need i say any more i didn't hang about but don't want the hassle.
anyway mate you sound a skilled man like chat now and then if that's ok with you electric I'm a newbie (combustion my specialty)so on steep learning curve lots and lots of reading books at the min.
anyway nice one mate
kenny

 

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A number of folk on pedelec.co.uk would be VERY interested in any 'one off build insurers' you could sign post them towards.. My comments above are based on reading posts in that forum where folk have been through the certification and been stalled at that stage.

Not so much skilled as the type of bod who takes things apart..

can you detail the specs of your bike (battery volts, motor rated watts..), a photo of the controller label as well as any handlebar display should help ID the control system..
Photos of the wiring damage too would help.

In order to start up and go like described above
1) the control system needed to be powered. (easily explained with a short from the ignition switch contacts)
2) a go signal from either the throttle (1.1v-4.1v probably) or if fitted from a pas (probably a pulse signal) must have been registered.
3) Brake cut off system failed????????

Never heard of #3 ever!! and the reason an alarm would utilise the brake cut off is probably because its a base level interupt to stop the motor even when the system is completely powered up. so i suspect a dodgy alarm or install there .

Damaged wiring or could result in #1 and #2 ..

Good news is replacement controllers and connecting wires etc are available ...

so suspend the back wheel off the ground, inspect, test continuity and waggle wires and i suspect the fault will show itself.

 

[neptronix]

I've had this happen and it was a halls problem.

 

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I've had this happen and it was a halls problem.

And there is a test for that https://ebikes.ca/documents/HallSensorTestingFinal.pdf

 

[Kennyken5072]

Hi thank the help got strip it down and try your advice see what happens
Insurance q plate is the way to go and there q plate specific insurance out there I've done combustion engineering version not Electric yet but Electric been around for decades positive it's been done. Engineering wise and follow the rules in conformance handbook and should be no problem I'm trying to decide the bike is 80% ready few bits stamp frame no get serial plate made, braid brake cables, metal clips NO cable ties, insulted cables, set of Avon tyres and photograph and send for registration and Q plate plus 50 quid wiait for no plate then book conformance at test centre and do all that and get certificates and tax then maybe then insurance. But I've got suzuki gsxr1000rr on my mind. Keep you all posted and respect to you all for giving a shit.
Bless Kenny

 

[Kennyken5072]

Oh conformance test 150 quid

 

[Kennyken5072]

hi all just had look insurers for 'Q' plate build/electric there are load for custom builds just google 'Q' plate electric motorbike insurers and go from there, there should not be any reason once you've filled in the V5/c think it is photographed the bike send your 60 quid fee registered the bike at the DVLA and got your number plate after that you'll have do the conformance test and its a 240 page book to go through do the test get certificate then you legally have a registered and MOT certified bike !!!, finally contact 'Q' Plate insurance custom and should be fine.
I hope this helps for any off you wanting to do this a it is possible.

The turn on fault going to investigate this weekend and will try what all of you have suggested to look at and will let you all know how it goes.
take care kenny