Help? Q100 probably, on old road bike (first build)

[loopernow]

Hello all,

I've posted on here just a few times. I've never ridden an electric bike before. I want to convert an old road bike so that I will ride to work rather than drive. I have ridden my old ~30 lb. road bike to work a total of two times so far in the past 3 months, and never in the past 3 years prior to that. It is a 10.5-mile commute, a very mild (~1% grade) uphill ride most of the way with one tough spot near the end that is a 5% grade for 1/5 of a mile. I'm a pretty light ~140 lbs 37-year-old male. The hill at the end is a bit tough; I am a bit sweaty when I get to work and it takes me an hour to get there by bike vs ~25 minutes by car.

I want to reduce but not eliminate the sweat factor, and reduce the commute time, so that I cycle to work almost all the time. I also want my bike to still feel like a bike. I also am not comfortable spending $1000+ right now.

A secondary goal would be to use my bike more in general for trips of all kinds (shopping, etc.), instead of my car.

So, I thought maybe a Q85 or Q100 or Q100H, in the rear of the bike for better handling/steering, with a light li-ion battery located inside the 'triangle' of the frame for good balance. I am >this< close to pulling the trigger on an all-in-one kit from BMSBattery, a Q100 kit that comes with a no-name 36V 10Ah bottle battery. See here.

Any thoughts on this? As I read around here and elsewhere on the web, I get confused with talk of overamping the motor, of the better Q100H, of better batteries.

*I almost forgot, I am also confused about what rpm to get. I can see on the site that the lower rpm is recommended for 700c wheels, but people here seem to recommend the opposite as far as I can tell.*

I understand that the near-universal consensus is that the Q100H is better, but then I would have to choose my own controller and battery, which is fine, but a bit daunting.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated!

 

[fellow]

BMS battery is OK, just make sure not to pay via IBAN (it's asking for trouble). Use your VISA card or similar via paypal instead.

Choose Q100H 201 rpm with at least 13s (48V nominal, 54.6V off the charger) battery. This will give you about 30 km/h (18mph). BMS battery sells 36V S06S (external 7A cont/14A peak), this controller is NOT suitable for 48V without modification. BMS battery has 72V S12SN controller, but this one will destroy your Q100H. There is suitable 48V S06S version on aliexpress, called sine wave 48V controller. Link: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Regeneration-Electric-Bicycle-Brush-less-Controller-48V-6-MOSFET/1749495210.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.NRN5Fy&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_5_10001_10002_10005_10006_10003_10004_62_9735,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_6151,searchweb1451318411_6451&btsid=d66dee2f-2bf9-4f74-949f-f8b37f2a9f55

Please do not overamp this little motor, it's only 2.2kg with tiny wires inside. 14A-17A peak is sweet spot for 201rpm, probably few amps more for the 260rpm version.

Overvolt it instead to 18s=75.6V off the charger (good luck finding the small 14A controller for this voltage), and you will improve both low speed torque and top speed. Drawback: at more than 13s, you will have to :
a) decrease the current because of the clutch, or
b) reinforce/redesign the clutch to take the extreme torque because of the overvolting...
In other words, 13s (48V nominal battery) and 7A/14A is its maximum if you choose the 201rpm motor and want it to work without hacking too much.

If you choose the 36V battery, 201rpm motor will be to slow (about 25km/h).

 

[ScooterMan101]

loopernow, this is the best information / example I have seen so far , above post and his build ... https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=68305

In his video Fellow shows 75 kph's on the display, you will not be going that fast once the wheel is on the ground with you sitting on it / road friction, etc.
you would still be going fast enough though , once you can use a 14s or more battery pack.

I got to say this is the best use / conversion of a Q 100 motor I have seen !
Fellow I wish you lived here in the States, I would love to hire you to to make the finishing touches on
my future Q 100 project !

Fellow , I would buy a controller from you , in a heart beat if it could be done cheaply, programable infineon perhaps ? .
( programmed to keep the amp's down to the spec's you find acceptable for each voltage battery pack )
. Do you know of a other way to get a 14s, or 16 s, or 18 s battery pack to work on an off the shelf controller ?
,
not what is on the BMS website, but an infineon or other $ 100 controller.

Right now here in the States, the only larger volt charger we can buy for a good price is the $ 99 one from Luna Cycle LLC, ( tax and shipping, apx. $ 125 )
but the highest one they offer is the 52 volt one, ( 14s ) and not adjustable for other voltages.
Grin makes the satiator, but from loopernow's budget that he stated, he would have to find another option.

So looks like 14s ( 52 volt ) might be the best for him right now ?

BMS battery is OK, just make sure not to pay via IBAN (it's asking for trouble). Use your VISA card or similar via paypal instead.

Choose Q100H 201 rpm with at least 13s (48V nominal, 54.6V off the charger) battery. This will give you about 30 km/h (18mph). Suitable controller for 36V is S06S (external 7A cont/14A peak). There is 48V S06S version on aliexpress, called sine wave controller. Please do not overamp this little motor, it's only 2.2kg with tiny wires inside. 14A-17A peak is sweet spot for 201rpm, probably few amps more for the 260rpm version.

Overvolt it instead to 18s=75.6V off the charger (good luck finding the small 14A controller for this voltage), and you will improve both low speed torque and top speed. Drawback: at more than 13s, you will have to :
a) decrease the current because of the clutch, or
b) reinforce/redesign the clutch to take the extreme torque because of the overvolting...

If you choose the 36V battery, 201rpm motor will be to slow (about 25km/h).

 

[fellow]

ScooterMan101: Answered via PM.

 

[motomech]

Hello all,

I've posted on here just a few times. I've never ridden an electric bike before. I want to convert an old road bike so that I will ride to work rather than drive. I have ridden my old ~30 lb. road bike to work a total of two times so far in the past 3 months, and never in the past 3 years prior to that. It is a 10.5-mile commute, a very mild (~1% grade) uphill ride most of the way with one tough spot near the end that is a 5% grade for 1/5 of a mile. I'm a pretty light ~140 lbs 37-year-old male. The hill at the end is a bit tough; I am a bit sweaty when I get to work and it takes me an hour to get there by bike vs ~25 minutes by car.

I want to reduce but not eliminate the sweat factor, and reduce the commute time, so that I cycle to work almost all the time. I also want my bike to still feel like a bike. I also am not comfortable spending $1000+ right now.

A secondary goal would be to use my bike more in general for trips of all kinds (shopping, etc.), instead of my car.

So, I thought maybe a Q85 or Q100 or Q100H, in the rear of the bike for better handling/steering, with a light li-ion battery located inside the 'triangle' of the frame for good balance. I am >this< close to pulling the trigger on an all-in-one kit from BMSBattery, a Q100 kit that comes with a no-name 36V 10Ah bottle battery. See here.

Any thoughts on this? As I read around here and elsewhere on the web, I get confused with talk of overamping the motor, of the better Q100H, of better batteries.

*I almost forgot, I am also confused about what rpm to get. I can see on the site that the lower rpm is recommended for 700c wheels, but people here seem to recommend the opposite as far as I can tell.*

I understand that the near-universal consensus is that the Q100H is better, but then I would have to choose my own controller and battery, which is fine, but a bit daunting.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated!

Wow, I'm tried was was thinking about skipping this thread and crashing, but I got to save you from the above recommendations.
I'm not sure why fellow is recommending you buy or build a custom battery to overVolt and redesigning the clutch, etc. Deffinately not something a beginner need to get involved in.
Let's see if we can build the best Q100 system for your needs using a standard battery.
But first, let me ask you a few questions;
1)Does your donor bike have a decent gear system and shift ok?
2)Would you be ok with the motor on the frt.?
3)Is 20 mph fast enough?
4)The basic kit you linked will be around $500 with shipping, depending where you are at(please fill out your profile). Can you afford $100 or $200 more?
5)Is your bike a "big wheel"(700CC)?
6)You you like "techy" stuff and don't mind spending xtra time setting up your bike or do you want to keep it simple and just go riding?
The reason I ask these questions are:
1)The kit you listed requires you buy a free wheel, which is $35 and probably won't shift as nice as what you already have. There is the CST motor that allows you to use your donor' bike's cassette, but that creates problems as far as what motor speed are avail.
2)On low power systems, frt. mounts are safe and it can save you much hassle and money. I like rear mount a little better, but not that much, as frt. works fine. Frt. mount also allows the use of any speed motor without a bunch of other considerations.
3)20 mph may not sound fast, but without any suspension and hydro brakes, it's fast enough, trust me. 18mph and below can get a little boring on long straights, so we want to shoot for the 18 to 20 mph range.
4)Two things I always recommend for folks that buy batteries from BMS Battery is to up grade to the Panasonic cells, they are worth the extra money. And to buy an extra charger. BMs Batteries are probably the best for the money, but their chargers are crap. Also, I could recommend the fastest and best climbing Cute system, but unless it's a frt. mount, it's going to be closer to $700 than $500.
5)700cc wheels are the hardest to get right w/ mini motors, so I need to be sure.
6)BMS Battery sells sine wave controllers with displays that have many cool features, but they add to the cost, need programming and can be a bit of a pain to set up correctly. You can read about them at the BMS Batt. site and pay attention to the PAS features to see if that is something you want.
Fill olut the questionare and I will answer later

 

[Sunder]

No offense intended to Motomech, but as he's said in another thread, he's 250lbs and rides in one of the hottest places on earth. For those two reasons, he needs to run conservative. Others including myself have reliably run settings he thought would blow the motor. That said, he's very knowledgeable about these motors, and running conservative isn't a bad thing when your job is on the line.

Fellow also builds some real nice Q100 based bikes. He knows his stuff as well, but probably hasn't taken into account that some of what he does requires experience. No newbie wants to be taking the innards of the motor to strengthen the clutch.

I've gone closer to Fellow's recommended build with 16s on a 201rpm motor. However, I've also programmed in a torque ramp period to protect the clutch rather than strengthen it. I've seen some non programmable controllers offer a "soft-start" option or fixed feature which would do the same. Alternatively, If you start pedaling and roll on the throttle gently, you'd probably still get a good life out of the motor.

Many options available to you. Personally, for what you describe, I'd be going a 260rpm on 12s or 201 on 16S. That will still keep you in the efficient band for most of the riding, but let you put some pedal power in without causing the clutch to disengage because you're pedaling faster than the motor.

 

[ScooterMan101]

Actually , most people here on E.S. that have had and run Q100 hub motors , say that the best speed is the 201 rpm one ( or at max the 260 rpm one ) when using a 700c wheel.

Motomech, Sunder and others have stated that . ( a 201 rpm version , in a 700c wheel is better ) however ( motormech has stated he is a big guy, and I see he has a heavy bike, with big tires, and lives in a hot climate )
and others have lower speeds they have to attend to .

I however am hopping the 328 will work because I need faster speeds than them, and because ,
There are a couple of people who have said that the 328 rpm Q100 would work.
one of which is actually running his 700c ( 29er ) bike with a 328 rpm motor,
However
The person that has been running a Q100H 328 rpm motor, has a very light weight, carbon frame 29er, the complete bike weighs only about 24 lbs fully built up with motor/controller/batteries, Everything .
and
He is about 155 lbs or less in weight, and , he lives and rides in a cool climate . ( S.F. )

I am only questioning motomech's reasoning and others who say the same as he, about only using a 201 rpm motor on a 700c wheel , because ... I am just 170 lbs, I will be using 25 or 28 mm high pressure / low rolling resistance tires,
and keeping the bike to be around 33 or less pounds fully built up, as well as using it as a peddle bike not a slow motorcycle , and also, I know from years of experience of riding minibikes, scooters, motorcycles how to, not , lug a motor.
( I am getting more convinced that a 201 rpm or 260 rpm one would be better for me than a 328 rpm , as long as I can get the right controller ( Sunder has a good controller ) and the right battery pack )
More research for me to do , that you will also benefit from since you also have a 700c bike and want speed.

Hello all,

I'm a pretty light ~140 lbs 37-year-old male.

*I almost forgot, I am also confused about what rpm to get. I can see on the site that the lower rpm is recommended for 700c wheels, but people here seem to recommend the opposite as far as I can tell.*

 

[loopernow]

Choose Q100H 201 rpm with at least 13s (48V nominal, 54.6V off the charger) battery...In other words, 13s (48V nominal battery) and 7A/14A is its maximum if you choose the 201rpm motor and want it to work without hacking too much.

Hi fellow, thanks for your recommendation. So then a 48V 8Ah battery from BMS would be fine? It says its 13s4p in the description.

Regarding the controller, I'm a bit confused. How do I know what LCD display to get for it, to change settings? The seller sells a bunch, but none of them seem to match up with both the '48v' and the 'geared motor' designation of the controller (one or the other, but not both). If I buy a PAS, throttle, hidden wire brake sensor from BMS, they will work with this controller?

 

[loopernow]

1)Does your donor bike have a decent gear system and shift ok?

Yes, but it's really old, I think I Googled it at some point and figured it might be from 1989 or so. As far as I can tell, it has a freewheel, not a cassette. I just Googled what is etched on one of the rear gears ('Shimano MF-Z012') and now I am 99.99% sure it is a freewheel.

The gear shifters are on the downtube, if that tells you anything.

2)Would you be ok with the motor on the frt.?

I think so, but I just assume the handling won't be as great if it's on the front. On one of my commutes on my bike, I was going too fast on a sharp curve on a road I was unfamiliar with. I braked to take the curve, too hard, and my rear wheel started to slide out from under me. I released the brake and was able to right the bike without bailing. I remember reading today someone mentioning something similar with regards to keeping a battery on a rear rack (e.g. they said it was a bad idea). These sorts of things make me want to keep the bike as agile as possible. I don't know if these examples are relevant.

3)Is 20 mph fast enough?

I honestly have never taken the time to see how fast I was going on a bike, but if it takes me 1 hour to go 10.5 miles on a slight incline, then I suppose 20mph is grand!

4)The basic kit you linked will be around $500 with shipping, depending where you are at(please fill out your profile). Can you afford $100 or $200 more?

Yes. It wouldn't be a huge issue.

5)Is your bike a "big wheel"(700CC)?

Yep.

6)You you like "techy" stuff and don't mind spending xtra time setting up your bike or do you want to keep it simple and just go riding?

More the latter. If by ‘extra time’ you mean a few hours, I’d be okay with that if I only had to do it once. Or if it’s something the LBS could do, I’d be willing to go that route too.

The reason I ask these questions are:
1)The kit you listed requires you buy a free wheel, which is $35 and probably won't shift as nice as what you already have. There is the CST motor that allows you to use your donor' bike's cassette, but that creates problems as far as what motor speed are avail.
2)On low power systems, frt. mounts are safe and it can save you much hassle and money. I like rear mount a little better, but not that much, as frt. works fine. Frt. mount also allows the use of any speed motor without a bunch of other considerations.

Given that I already have a freewheel, let me know if you think this is a big issue.

3)20 mph may not sound fast, but without any suspension and hydro brakes, it's fast enough, trust me. 18mph and below can get a little boring on long straights, so we want to shoot for the 18 to 20 mph range.

Sounds good!

I am a little confused by references to top speeds in these forums. 18-20 mph would be the top speed without pedaling on level ground, is that right? That's the default presumption when talking about top speed? So, if that's the top speed unassisted, could I conceivably go much faster if I pedal as fast as I can while also gunning the motor? Or would the effect be like pedaling really, really fast in first gear on level ground (lots of pedaling without much resultant forward movement)?

4)Two things I always recommend for folks that buy batteries from BMS Battery is to up grade to the Panasonic cells, they are worth the extra money. And to buy an extra charger. BMs Batteries are probably the best for the money, but their chargers are crap. Also, I could recommend the fastest and best climbing Cute system, but unless it's a frt. mount, it's going to be closer to $700 than $500.

I was definitely leaning already towards buying an extra charger. I found the charger product page at BMSBattery a little bit inexplicable. I'm assuming their chargers simply go up in price as they charge faster (I noticed they physically get bigger as they go up in price).

6)BMS Battery sells sine wave controllers with displays that have many cool features, but they add to the cost, need programming and can be a bit of a pain to set up correctly. You can read about them at the BMS Batt. site and pay attention to the PAS features to see if that is something you want.
Fill olut the questionare and I will answer later

Most everything I've read here and elsewhere makes me think I want PAS. What I've read is that it increases range dramatically and that it's nice not to have to hold down a throttle for extended periods of time. And that you get more exercise since the whole reason the range is increased is because you're pedaling.

Regarding the displays, I can imagine that I would really love one at first and then, once I understood the settings, want to leave it on one setting that I liked and get rid of the display. But maybe that's not the nature of using a PAS bike. I don't really know. But I also assumed I would need the display to start with, to get the settings the way I wanted them. I also sortof assumed I would need a throttle. Any illumination on this topic would be welcome.

 

[loopernow]

More research for me to do , that you will also benefit from since you also have a 700c bike and want speed.

Yeah, I think the people I read stating they used higher rpms were really into bicycling fast on their road bikes with these motors. But they may have been really extreme cases. I think it's fun riding my road bike, and fast at times, but I'm no athlete!

I'm glad I'm getting feedback, this is really helpful already.

 

[ScooterMan101]

I have been to San Antonio , TX. , so being a flat area , only using a 201 rpm is not as important for you as others who live in hilly /mountainous areas.
reading between the lines, and from what someone in England who lives in a hilly country town, has said to me in the past, a 260 rpm Q motor is a good compromise .
Do you really need the speed ?
For me 20 is not that much, I have ridden in groups a couple of times , that ride a little faster than 20 mph , my bike is a newer bike that handles speed very well, and it has disc brakes, and I have ridden motorcycles all my life, so I am a more comfortable with speed than others here.
Only you know how your bike handles speed and brakes at speed .

More research for me to do , that you will also benefit from since you also have a 700c bike and want speed.

Yeah, I think the people I read stating they used higher rpms were really into bicycling fast on their road bikes with these motors. But they may have been really extreme cases. I think it's fun riding my road bike, and fast at times, but I'm no athlete!

I'm glad I'm getting feedback, this is really helpful already.

 

[loopernow]

No offense intended to Motomech, but as he's said in another thread, he's 250lbs and rides in one of the hottest places on earth. For those two reasons, he needs to run conservative. Others including myself have reliably run settings he thought would blow the motor. That said, he's very knowledgeable about these motors, and running conservative isn't a bad thing when your job is on the line.

Fellow also builds some real nice Q100 based bikes. He knows his stuff as well, but probably hasn't taken into account that some of what he does requires experience. No newbie wants to be taking the innards of the motor to strengthen the clutch.

I've gone closer to Fellow's recommended build with 16s on a 201rpm motor. However, I've also programmed in a torque ramp period to protect the clutch rather than strengthen it. I've seen some non programmable controllers offer a "soft-start" option or fixed feature which would do the same. Alternatively, If you start pedaling and roll on the throttle gently, you'd probably still get a good life out of the motor.

Many options available to you. Personally, for what you describe, I'd be going a 260rpm on 12s or 201 on 16S. That will still keep you in the efficient band for most of the riding, but let you put some pedal power in without causing the clutch to disengage because you're pedaling faster than the motor.

Good points. I live in a pretty hot place too (San Antonio, TX) but I don't necessarily cycle in the blazing heat all that much. And it's not particularly hilly.

Are you saying get a battery rated at the same voltage as the motor and controller, but with a minimum of the number of batteries in series as you've noted? Where would I get a 12s-minimum or 16s-minimum battery like that? The 36V batteries on BMS are all 10s. The 48V batteries are 13s but I'm not sure if you're recommending overvolting or not.

Is the programming difficult?

The options are mind-boggling since I have no experience with this stuff and no technical background. So I really appreciate all the help. I like getting a 'kit' or everything from one site or at least an assurance that Product A will work with Product X, Y and Z. The options are dizzying.

 

[ScooterMan101]

When you buy from BMS you are , on your own, for figuring things out .
No instructions, no way of knowing how the Display works/how to adjust it, its different functions, etc. , also even the right color coding for connecting all the wires together .
and if you do not hit the right button, when you order you will be sent something you did not want, like
a full throttle when you wanted a half, or a 328 rpm motor when you wanted a 201,
when I ordered I could not see all the different spec's of the items in the cart, to know that I was ordering
the right item, but wrong size/rpm, etc.
Best to order a few more items that you do not think you want now, but latter realize you do want.
Or
Better yet, since you are new to all this, if you could pay just a little more, order from someone you can talk to / who speaks, and
even more important understands English and what you want/are meaning to say.

Ask others, and or , start another thread on what you have and want to do, and which American/Canadian Retailers that they like , that can help you. since you are getting an idea what you want from the answers in this thread.

 

[friendly1uk]

36v 10-12ah with a 328 and s06s(which comes in many commercial battery packs)

12s? 16s? What is this strange language many speak. The clutch seems less work to me. I hope nobody is going to try and rush him into building something that will burn his house down. That's getting old. Batteries are 36v and 48v. Looking at the run time, a good 40 minutes says Ah is needed. It's a road bike for sweating on which dictates bottle like batteries. This is not going to be a 48v build unless a spare is carried or charging both ends of the journey is possible. This is likely a weight weenie build. Gaining it's speed from fast motors and specifying the battery and controller with range in mind. It's a low budget road bike.


Chas had the same goals and went through a few variations https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49691

 

[motomech]

No offense intended to Motomech, but as he's said in another thread, he's 250lbs and rides in one of the hottest places on earth. For those two reasons, he needs to run conservative. Others including myself have reliably run settings he thought would blow the motor. That said, he's very knowledgeable about these motors, and running conservative isn't a bad thing when your job is on the line.

Fellow also builds some real nice Q100 based bikes. He knows his stuff as well, but probably hasn't taken into account that some of what he does requires experience. No newbie wants to be taking the innards of the motor to strengthen the clutch.

I've gone closer to Fellow's recommended build with 16s on a 201rpm motor. However, I've also programmed in a torque ramp period to protect the clutch rather than strengthen it. I've seen some non programmable controllers offer a "soft-start" option or fixed feature which would do the same. Alternatively, If you start pedaling and roll on the throttle gently, you'd probably still get a good life out of the motor.

Many options available to you. Personally, for what you describe, I'd be going a 260rpm on 12s or 201 on 16S. That will still keep you in the efficient band for most of the riding, but let you put some pedal power in without causing the clutch to disengage because you're pedaling faster than the motor.

No offense intended to Motomech, but as he's said in another thread, he's 250lbs and rides in one of the hottest places on earth

At the beginning of this thread, the OP states that he is pretty light and he weighs 147 lb.s. I'm the one who is 250 lb.s and live in Tucson. Check a Weather map.

For those two reasons, he needs to run conservative. Others including myself have reliably run settings he thought would blow the motor. That said, he's very knowledgeable about these motors, and running conservative isn't a bad thing when your job is on the line.

I haven't recommended anything, except he not exceed a 48V battery, while sunder is talking about 75 Volts and customising the clutch??? And sunder is being conservative and I'm not? And what exactly does "blow the motor" mean? The Q100 is not a 327 Chevy. For years, I have been saying it's overVolting these mini's that burns the windings.
If the simple guide of never fall below 1/2 of the no-load rpm when climbing is observed, these motors are not prone to overheating, period! It's the controllers most use with these motor that run hot.

 

[ScooterMan101]

lucky for Looper there is another option from just the typical 36volt ( 10s) pack or the 48 volt ( 13 s ) pack, what I am talking about is what Luna Cycle LLC, has just in the last month / month and a half , started selling,
a 52 volt pack ( 14s 4p ) that is made from the safer and plug and play 18650 cells. They can also sell him the right charger for it as well.
also at that voltage it is not overvolting the motor too much, I am guessing.

Your thoughts on just jumping from 13s to 14s motomech ?

Since I have not, yet , experimented with these motors , such a small rise in volts being ok, is a guess on my part.
It does sound like from others that have overvolted the Q100 motor , that a soft start, either electronically or by peddling from a stop to a few miles per hour before engaging the motor
is a wise thing to do.

 

[motomech]

Actually , most people here on E.S. that have had and run Q100 hub motors , say that the best speed is the 201 rpm one ( or at max the 260 rpm one ) when using a 700c wheel.

Motomech, Sunder and others have stated that . ( a 201 rpm version , in a 700c wheel is better ) however ( motormech has stated he is a big guy, and I see he has a heavy bike, with big tires, and lives in a hot climate )
and others have lower speeds they have to attend to .

I however am hopping the 328 will work because I need faster speeds than them, and because ,
There are a couple of people who have said that the 328 rpm Q100 would work.
one of which is actually running his 700c ( 29er ) bike with a 328 rpm motor,
However
The person that has been running a Q100H 328 rpm motor, has a very light weight, carbon frame 29er, the complete bike weighs only about 24 lbs fully built up with motor/controller/batteries, Everything .
and
He is about 155 lbs or less in weight, and , he lives and rides in a cool climate . ( S.F. )

I am only questioning motomech's reasoning and others who say the same as he, about only using a 201 rpm motor on a 700c wheel , because ... I am just 170 lbs, I will be using 25 or 28 mm high pressure / low rolling resistance tires,
and keeping the bike to be around 33 or less pounds fully built up, as well as using it as a peddle bike not a slow motorcycle , and also, I know from years of experience of riding minibikes, scooters, motorcycles how to, not , lug a motor.
( I am getting more convinced that a 201 rpm or 260 rpm one would be better for me than a 328 rpm , as long as I can get the right controller ( Sunder has a good controller ) and the right battery pack )
More research for me to do , that you will also benefit from since you also have a 700c bike and want speed.

I am only questioning motomech's reasoning and others who say the same as he, about only using a 201 rpm motor on a 700c wheel , because ... I am just 170 lbs, I will be using 25 or 28 mm high pressure / low rolling resistance tires,
and keeping the bike to be around 33 or less pounds fully built up, as well as using it as a peddle bike not a slow motorcycle , and also, I know from years of experience of riding minibikes, scooters, motorcycles how to, not , lug a motor.
( I am getting more convinced that a 201 rpm or 260 rpm one would be better for me than a 328 rpm , as long as I can get the right controller ( Sunder has a good controller ) and the right battery pack )
More research for me to do , that you will also benefit from since you also have a 700c bike and want speed.

I never said that a 260 in a 700cc is an absolute no no, I have just been advising that a 328 in a big wheel is usually a bad idea. It seems like it would work for you, but you won't see 28 mph on 48 Volts.
The Ebike CA simulator has a 260 in a 700cc on 48V(Hot off the charger 54V) topping out @ 24.5 mph. That was a mountain bike, so a road bike, maybe 25 to 25.5 mph. You won't be able to add much by pedaling at that speed, say an absolute max of 26 mph.
Still, that's very fast for any mini. I've gotten my Rocky Mountain to 28 mph., but that's with two 328's and a total of 1800 Watts! More than any single mini can handle safely.
But be advised, that combo will not be the most efficient(79%)and any sort a hill will quickly heat up a 6-FET controller. I would use a 9-FET.

 

[ScooterMan101]

Motomech,
Looks like I will have to shelve my 201 Q100 cst that I have now, and wait for Jason to import the Q100h in a 260 wind, ( I have been hesitating on lacing it to a rim anyway, since there is suppose to be a better Q100H soon ).

Those speed at different voltages/ wheel , figures you posted are just what I must get from my conversion, those speeds are the speed that the healthy roadies ride at in
my area. would not have believed those kind of continuous speeds had I not seen them for myself.

I was thinking about getting a different controller anyway, one that I can restrict the amps, just not sure which one to get but I was thinking exactly that a 9 fet, as I have read somewhere that a 12 fet is too much for that little motor
I will use my existing 48 volt battery
pack, until, the price of 14s and above packs come down to better prices .

 

[motomech]

Q100H's are available in the 260 motor speed, just not with the CST mount

 

[ScooterMan101]

Yes, But

I am , and have for a while, been waiting on Jason to get the improved ones in . ( Stronger Clutch and Thinner Lamination )
For a while Jason was saying that he was going to order the 201 rpm and 328 rpm ones, so until very recently I have been planing on lacing up a 328 rpm one,
But recently he said that perhaps he will order some 260's as well, if he gets enough requests for the 260, so I will have to wait until he finally says what he ordered .
Might have to make the 328 work, if he does not order the 260 , so for the time being I must plan the voltage and amperage ranges for each.

In the last couple of weeks, Jason has not responded to inquires as to which ones and when they are coming in . He has not posted anything for a few weeks now,
starting to wonder what is going on.

Q100H's are available in the 260 motor speed, just not with the CST mount

 

[motomech]

loopernow,
This thread has kinda spread out all over the place, so I'll just throw out some generlazations and deal with specifics later.
The deal with BMS Battery is, the stuff is fairly cheap, but shipping adds to the cost quite bit. I have found it's a good idea to order lot's of the inexpensive stuff like various styles of throttles(I like left-hand, half twist, since with the motor the frt. shifter will not be used), a spoke wrench,hidden brk sensor, torque arms and that extra charger. The fact is, if you are like the most of us, you will get addicted to Ebikes and will start thinking about the next build before the "paint is dry" on the first :lol:

That 20 mpg is flat ground, nopedal and no wind.
And to get to that speed, we run into some problems matching motor speeds in that wheel w/ the controllers BMS Battery sells.
You could go with a 201 motor on 48 Volts, but there is only one controller avail. for 48 Volts and it's the little one that is built into a bottle battery. But that hasn't been the most rreliable unit and I'm a little hesitant to recommend it. Also, if that is the route you choose, then the "Kit" is out and we will have to "mix and Match" parts(Which looks like the case in any event).
Or, you could use a 260H motor on 36 Volts which opens up more controller options.
The 201 on 48V will do 21.5 mph, while the 260 on 36V will do 20 mph.
The 260H is the strongest of the Cutes and my fav motor, but it looks like BMS Batt. now only sells it as a motor only. You would have to build the wheel.
Man, this is complicated
It's getting late, so I will cut to the chase and recommend something I usually don't, and that is to order from two different vendors.
The motor/wheel kit from Elifebike;
http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2011-43-GRTP.234JT
That kit comes with a small controller, but I would order an larger, more powerful one and keep the kit one for a spare;
And this controller w/the 810 display;
http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2014-3K-SPSC.5TSNR
And get the battery and all the small stuff from BMS Battery.
The down side is you will pay shipping from two different vendors, but, for me this would be the best mix of components.
On batteries, the "dolphfin" style are a newer design than the bottle style and might be higher quality, but either way, go for Panasonic cell and the most capacity you can afford.
I will explain why I would go this route later, but it is only one option and others should add their ideas.

And yes, your bike uses a free wheel(what an antique), but the problem with that free wheel is the sm gear is only a 14 tooth. That means you will be spinning your legs like a cartoon character at 20 mph. I think eventually, you will want a free wheel with an 11 tooth small gear and that means Epoch DNP w/ 7 gears(you just don't use them all).
Or, you could go with a CST motor and convert to a Cassette, but that opens a whole nother "can of worms".

Well, thinking about it, another option that keeps most every thing from BMS Battery is:
This wheel/motor kit;
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/426-q100-36v250w-350w-rear-e-bike-kit-with-led-meter-ebike-kit.html
A 48 V battery
and this controller;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-48V-500W-9-Mosfets-E-Bike-Motor-Controller-with-LED-meter/221960451157?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D30adf55e662d45f9ac1131108d766f70%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D321940385383
It's the same elifebike 9-fet 500 W controller. They just sell it on Ebay with shipping of only $9

 

[loopernow]

Okay, I'm leaning towards the Q100H as has been suggested by momotech, fellow, ScooterMan101. And I am looking at the pieces that momotech has suggested.

Momotech, looks like I can get the Q100H from BMSB; the picture is just wrong (I assume!):
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/633-q100h-36v350w-rear-e-bike-motor-wheel-ebike-kit.html#/327-rpm-260

Should I buy just the motor and have a BS install it in a wheel? Or order it in-wheel and get it trued?

Thank you momotech for the eBay find. I am fine with getting that controller. I am also thinking about getting a couple controllers from BMSB too, just so I can try them all out. I understand a KU93 would work and also the S06S...

From BMSB I would also get 2 inline brake sensors (so I can turn off the motor by using my existing brake levers/cables, right?), a 12-magnet PAS kit, a thumb throttle, a controller case, and an extra charger. Maybe an LCD display?

Is there any reason I should get the 201 rpm rather than the 260 rpm?

And I can basically just screw my existing freewheel onto the Q100H motor, right? With lots of fiddling and adjusting and the right tool, I realize.

Momotech, can you tell me more about the freewheel size and why I should get a different freewheel? The number of teeth on the smallest rear sprocket is 13, not 14. The largest has 24T. In what situation would I need to be in the lowest gear but not have much resistance (from wind or slope or whatnot)? Sorry, I just don't have experience in this area.

 

[ScooterMan101]

Loopernow,

Motomech, can answer those questions,

meanwhile, Here are some things you can check out for
batteries , once you see that shipping is $ 102 from China for a Battery pack ,
check out these two packs, that are the latest thing in pack design, ( shark pack shell , with Panasonic 18650's )

Here, for 48 volt one : http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/48v/48v-panasonic-11-5ah-13-5ah-shark-pack-with-charger/
and
Here for the 52 volt one : http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/52v/52v-panasonic-11-5ah-13-5ah-shark-pack-with-charger/

and for a good charger , Advanced Variable Ah 300w $79.95

Be aware though, you must figure out if you want the 48 volt or the 52 volt pack first , because that charger only varies the Amp charge output, NOT , the Voltage,
Not happy about that ! I am going to wait to buy a battery pack from them .. until they realize that costumers want and offer for sale , a variable , Voltage Charger, so that we do not have to have many chargers lying around .
But they could be too late to fix that problem , and I wind buying a battery pack from someone else.

If you have the money you could get the variable charger from Grin Technologies.
Or stay with the 2 amp one from luna, and get a second charger from BMS.

 

[Sunder]

Are you saying get a battery rated at the same voltage as the motor and controller, but with a minimum of the number of batteries in series as you've noted? Where would I get a 12s-minimum or 16s-minimum battery like that? The 36V batteries on BMS are all 10s. The 48V batteries are 13s but I'm not sure if you're recommending overvolting or not.

Is the programming difficult?

Motors don't really have a voltage rating. The higher the voltage, the faster they go. Controllers on the other hand do have a high voltage limit, and some have low voltage limits. So just pick one that will take the voltage of the battery that you choose.

10 and 13 cell batteries are the most common, because they are the closest to 36 and 48v lead acid batteries from times of lore. To make other sizes, most people get pre-made remote control car/plane batteries and string them together. For example, a 16S battery can easily be made from 4 x 4S batteries. These for example are very popular for their low cost and robust construction:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=18631

Programming isn't really programming in the computer sense. It's simply raising a number in a GUI field. In this case, I changed the Torque Ramp up period from 50ms to 1000ms. All that did was tell the controller that if the throttle goes from 0% to 100%, then each millisecond, increase torque only by 0.1%, Nice gradual application of torque.

 

[Sunder]

At the beginning of this thread, the OP states that he is pretty light and he weighs 147 lb.s. I'm the one who is 250 lb.s and live in Tucson. Check a Weather map.

I think you've mixed up pronouns. The "he", refers to you. As in, I was saying YOU have to run conservative as compared to the OP, because you weigh more than him, and live in a climate that gets to 100*F in summer.

I haven't recommended anything, except he not exceed a 48V battery, while sunder is talking about 75 Volts and customising the clutch??? And sunder is being conservative and I'm not? And what exactly does "blow the motor" mean? The Q100 is not a 327 Chevy. For years, I have been saying it's overVolting these mini's that burns the windings.
If the simple guide of never fall below 1/2 of the no-load rpm when climbing is observed, these motors are not prone to overheating, period! It's the controllers most use with these motor that run hot.

I actually did not recommend 75 volts, and I recommended AGAINST customising the clutch for a newbie. You might instead be referring to Fellow.

Blow the motor means destroy it. In most cases, it's melt the enamel coating on the magnet wire. Interesting that the only Q100 series motor I've ever melted was a 201 on 12S (44v) in a 700 wheel. Both the 328 (14S)and the 260 (16S) have had good long reliable lives, dying either from mechanical failure of wires (Dropped bike on wire entry side), or clutch wearing. Why is the 201 more vulnerable? Because lower wind motors use more turns of a thinner wire. That means it will heat up more for the same current. The only reason faster wind motors melt windings is because people run full current through them when the motor can't reach at least 50% of their unloaded speed.

Personally, I like to target the maximum motor speed to be about 80% of unloaded speed, so I can add my own pedaling power, and still get assistance, while not forcing the motor into the inefficient zone.