HELP with Lyen tester

[medusa569]

For the past 4 days I've been trying to troubleshoot using the Lyen tester. I have the directions that can been seen elsewhere on this site. One thing I've noticed in the directions is that under testing controller it neglects to say whether battery should be turned on or not. I've also noticed there are no directions for utilizing the throttle wires on the tester..so what are they there for? I think I got a buggy tester as lights will sporadically come on solid when first turn on but blinks fin when wheel is rotated ( for phase and hall connections). I have never gotten the 5V light come on. Is there a way to test the wiring from the controller with meter as to whether I'm getting the 5volts?
IS there a way to temp by pass the throttle just to see if the hall sensors as connected ok . I noticed that if I switch up the phase connections I will still get the clockwise rotating lights. I don't know if that is unusual. I've checked my wiring and connections for continuity and all is ok ( except throttle as that is more complicated. Will some kind soul tell me how the h-ll to use this thing beyond the simple directions. And yes I've emailed Lyen and he hasn't answered past helpless response. I can call someone if that makes them walking me through it easier. I'm in EST.

 

[John in CR]

I haven't used it to test a controller. I just use the motor to test the controller.

Test your throttle- Connect the 3 wires from the throttle to the tester. A light will be solid on, and as you turn the throttle it will turn off and as you turn it further it comes back on a different color.

Connect the motor phases and turn the wheel (motor), and the 3 lights should alternately turn on. Don't spin too slowly or there won't be enough BEMF to sense.

Connect the motor hall wires to the tester, and turn the wheel. Again 3 lights should alternate.

None of the above involve the circular lights, which are for the controller.

If motor, throttle, and motor halls all test fine, then connect the controller and use only small pulses of throttle until you are sure you have a valid wiring configuration that spins the motor smoothly and quietly.

Note that one of my 2 testers came wired incorrectly internally. The 2 sets of wires with 3 alligator clips were crossed on the motor/throttle side of the tester, but that was easy enough to find using the spin the motor phase wire test. Maybe that's what's throwing you for a loop.

John

 

[medusa569]

I did the testing with the throttle to tester..fine, phase and hall wires to tester also fine.
when I do the controller test as directed by Lyen's instructions I get goose eggs.
No throttle light... nothing. I've tested all my wiring ( had to do extensive connector switchouts !) for continuity and all was ok. The only thing I can think of is that the controller is not getting its power from the thick red wire we were directed to pigtail onto the positive wire from battery connector or it's got something to do with wire mismatch?? I am having problems identifying wires on the hall for controller. As you can see I've photographed the wires on my unit and the colors are way off and the only ones that DO have appropriate colors is a six lead section not five. Lyen is sometimes slow to support if you need immediate /same day contact. He will reply within 1-2 days and yes he is busy. Is there a way to test if the controller is working at all perhaps measuring the throttle connector with meter??

I have since learned that despite the instructions on his sheet I should not have wasted my time trying to match hall sensors as this controller was sensorless !? Ideally all I should have had to do was connect the 3 fat phase wires to the motor...connect the phase wires to controller, connect battery and some type (?) of throttle. Didn't work out that way though ...

 

[dogman dan]

Well, if the throttle tests good, and the motor tests good, and it won't work, that leaves only the controller or the battery.

Sure the battery is good? Controllers are supposed to shut off when undervolted.

 

[medusa569]

Sure the battery is good? Controllers are supposed to shut off when under volted.[/quote]

This has been a huge learning experience...one I wasn't prepared for and didn't want had there been proper info and documentation on the items I bought. Let me say that the motor I have is one with 5 wires/hall sensors. I purchased a sensor less controller thinking it would easily be integrated into what I have as long as I got the voltage (36V battery) and (up to 500W motor draw) right. I have a 3 wire thumb throttle. I believe one has to purchase another type of throttle for the sensorless controllers. If I am correct on that assumption from what little I read , then that only leaves trying out different phase wire combinations in order to get the motor turning. If I am wrong in assuming I need a different throttle then I have tried and tested and am getting goose eggs from the throttle wires. Lyen has no further suggestions. My battery is registering 37 volts. I am just wondering if the controller is getting power ? My solders are good. There should be no reason the controller is not getting power and there seems to be no safe way I can test that theory with battery . I am left no recourse but to buy another controller and I will go back to a sensored controller. I will say that after my last posting Lyen did give me his phone # and has attempted to give me connection info. I would just recommend that additional info tidbits be posted next to his listings so other newbies do not encounter the same as I.

 

[dogman dan]

Controller won't care if it's sensorless or not re the throttle. Three wires is what you need. Some throttles have a 4th wire, but that is not controlling anything, it's just showing voltage.

37v is pretty close to discharged, but your controller should not have an LVC set that low unless it is intended for 48v.

As I said before, if the throttle tests good, and the motor is not shorted, and your connections to the motor are good, then that leaves the controller or the battery.

Does the battery have a bms? Maybe it shuts off the instant you hit the throttle.

Bear in mind, perhaps 90% of all ebike problems are a disconnected connector. It can be real easy for a contact to back out of the housing and look connected, but it's not. This problem is super common, and happens to even us experts. So look real close at those connectors again too.

 

[medusa569]

Well its good to know I don't require a different throttle for a sensorless setup. as for the battery....its supposed to be a 36 volt pack. Although when emailing Lyen one time he mentioned making it 48 volt (option 36/48) I reminded him that I need 36v. what is BMS? I have been checking my connections over and over...changed the connectors many times...I might just make a new harness period. Maybe I need to check out the program configuration just to see if there were any errors. At this point in the meantime I'll buy a controller at 1/3 the price I paid for this just to get mobile again. Its hard to be stuck at home right when my neighborhood supermarket is closing.

 

[dogman dan]

Let's back up just a bit. What is your battery? If it is lithium, it most likely got a bms inside. Batery management system. The bms would detect if a cell is low, and shut itself off, preventing you from murdering the battery.

Your battery even if new, could have one dodgy cell inside it. It would show a full charge when you put a voltmeter on it. But as soon as you draw current, you could have one cell so weak that it drops it's voltage when you draw any current. The bms then immediately shuts off, and viola, your bike won't run.

Is 37v as high voltage as your battery ever gets? If so, that is your basic problem. A fully charged 36v lithium battery should be above 40v, like 42-44v. 36v is a dead battery, and 37v is very close to that.

One last thing, some controllers have two red + wires to power the controller. Both have to be connected to the battery for it to turn on. The little red wire is meant to run to a keyswitch someplace on the bike.

Good clear pictures help us a lot. Maybe we'll spot something in your wiring like the little red wire, or that your brake cutoff plugs are shorted.

 

[John in CR]

I don't think you need to be remaking any wiring harnesses. Let's back up. Do you have a multimeter?
What exactly to you have and where did you get it, controller and battery??? Picturers???

 

[medusa569]

Thats news on the battery info ! I will check out that section but for my Ezee battery that evidently is identified as a 37V battery it did indeed ready 37 v on the meter fully charged. However of that is still too low I also daisy chained it to a 12 v gel car battery to see if it had accidently been configured for 48 v and it still did nothing. I'm assuming that even if I don't have the phase wires properly matched it still might make some sound, try some kind of start up. 37 v + 12 should have given me something. This is my first sensorless controller and although it is hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that I don't have to connect and of the smaller wires to the hall sensors ( not even the positive or negative for juice) I am awaiting a cheaper chinese item to come ( that is the old fashioned sensored) and see if indeed it is a controller problem which all testing seems to indicate. I really would like to have and keep a beefed up modded controller but I can't afford to buy 2 at the same time. The setup I have is a 9Continent FH 205 motor which is rated at 500W, the eZee lithium batteries ( 37 volt), and the old controller that came with it from cycle 9 ( now defunct as they don't answer emails and no phone contact) is identified as an infineon sensored 36/48v.
After a ride in a decently heavy rain the bike stopped. After testing on Lyen tester battery checked , hall sensors checked but controller test did not check out. Pics included.

 

[jateureka]

You can't use the Lyen tester to test a sensorless controller; to test this controller use a known good throttle, battery and motor as said above.

The photo in your second post of the Leyen controller shows it has a connection for motor hall sensors, but is a bit different in that it has 2 black wires instead of 1.

To test a controller for motors with hall sensors you need to:
plug the throttle into the controller,
plug the controller motor phase and motor hall connectors into the tester on the RHS connections for testing the controller,
plug your fully charged battery (at least 41V) into the controller and turn on
Switch the tester ON & you should see:
the 'power' light come on the tester (middle LED bottom left row of 3)
the '5V' light come on in the centre of the circle of LEDs
Turn the throttle 1/3 and hold it there and you should see LED's blink in pairs around the circle.

You might also want to read some comments in this thread regards getting the Lyen Infinion controllers to work. http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37405

 

[number1cruncher]

The photo in your second post of the Leyen controller shows it has a connection for motor hall sensors, but is a bit different in that it has 2 black wires instead of 1.

I believe that is the CA connector

 

[medusa569]

The Lyen sensorless controller has no wires for the hall wire on hub. That's is what got me at first also...but when I called him he pointed out that the connector with 2 black wires was for the analyst and the other set of 5 wire connectors was for the programming capability. Everything that the tester could test came out fine except for the controller tester and I guess I'll just have to see that when I get a cheapie controller if that works or not. I just can't imagine a new controller as not working especially when he says he tested it before shipping.
Soon I'll be able to tell you how it comes out.

 

[number1cruncher]

Lyen is a man of his word. However, things could have happened in transit. Good luck!

 

[jateureka]

OK, so you can't test that sensorless controller with the tester
Did you try connecting the thin red wire to battery after making the main connection, as suggested in the link?

 

[John in CR]

OK, so you can't test that sensorless controller with the tester
Did you try connecting the thin red wire to battery after making the main connection, as suggested in the link?

+1 That wire is what turns the controller on.

 

[medusa569]

Yes I connected the thin red wire as well as the thick red and thick black.
I think my picture shows it.