Hey dillenger, where are the updated racks you promised?

Joined
Jan 28, 2015
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A long time ago I posted this thread:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66491&p=1001228&hilit=blackjackel#p1001228

I was so pissed off I made a whole website about it: http://www.dillengerelectricbicycles.com

Long story short, i bought a kit from dillenger, the battery holder broke twice within two months of purchase and they refused to replace it under warranty. At the end of the thread they apologized and promised to replace it with a heavy duty battery holder in the future.... Recently I've tried contacting them via email and they are not responding to me... I'm thinking maybe they lied again? I don't know.

It sucks to have to shame a company to get them to honor their promises. I didn't want to post here to get a response, but this is the only avenue that I can see that they can honor their claims.
 
We actually did draft and build a prototype rear rack that would comfortably hold the 48V 20Ah size bricks of batteries (not the same as yours). We spent a lot of time on it and there were a couple variations.

In the end, we found that it was too fiddly to assemble and we didn't like that much weight that high up. Mounting hardware onto rear stays is not simple and it wasn't going to work for many different bikes.

We didn't decide to produce it for a production. Instead, we developed the 'hardcase' series:

http://dillengerelectricbikes.com/electric-bike-kits/bbs-hd1000-bafang-mid-drive-pre-order-by-bafang.html
http://dillengerelectricbikes.com/electric-bike-kits/off-road/1500w-electric-bike-kit-hard-case-samsung-20ah-long-range-battery.html
http://dillengerelectricbikes.com/electric-bike-kits/off-road/high-power/dillenger-crystalyte-6-500w-high-voltage-100km-h-62mph-conversion-kit.html

I didn't think it was particularly newsworthy, but you can check it out in the files below if you're interested in building one.

You can send the parts list to a machine shop with a laser/waterjet cutting machine and someone who can TIG. The other parts not on the list are the rod ends, fasteners and exhaust pipe clamps (but hose clamps can work also).

Sam
 
And just to clear up something you mentioned about having to shame us to honour our promise of developing a new rear rack.

I haven't had a single message from you since your other threads were blocked by admin.

Our sales staff probably aren't aware of 90% of the preproduction things we make in the workshop that never see the light of day.

Sam
 
well, you promised you would develop and give to me a free replacement to my rear rack that broke twice within months of purchase, are you saying that you won't be doing this at all?

Because right now giving me a spec list for a rack that I can give to a machine shop falls very very far from that promise... Are you willing to pay for this machine shop to create this rack? What happens if you do pay for it and it does not fit or work? If you are refusing anything other than a working functional replacement to my rear rack (as you promised me) then you are failing to honor the warranty promise to me at the time of purchase of my product.

I did not contact you through these forums, my contacts were through your own dillenger support sysytem. I'll pull the dillenger support emails sometime this week and post them here, I contacted you guys twice without repsonse. I did not contact you through these forums, my contacts were through your own dillenger support sysytem.
 
I'm not saying you didn't contact the company, but you didn't contact me which is easy to do here (on ES).

I'm just saying that if you didn't get anywhere asking questions through our 'contact us' that is probably the reason.

We went down that road and found that it wasn't going to be a better option than what exists currently.

Sam
 
That's not my primary concern. My primary concern is that you promised me (and everyone that is having this issue) something, and you don't seem to want to fulfill that promise,

On top of that (and besides the point of the promise), you provided an unlimited 12 month warranty on the parts that you have yet to honor.

are you going to honor your warranty and your promise and provide me with a functional replacement for my battery holder or some other alternative that works free of charge to me? as you promised?
 
At the moment we still have the same rear rack which we stock spares of in each warehouse should there be any issues. You're welcome to another one of those to have as a backup just in case there is a problem. We have 55 spares in the US warehouse (I don't know why there are that many).

Despite the problems you had with more than one of these, they're still going strong and we haven't had any reported problems in over a year (to my knowledge).

Sam
 
Dillenger_Australia said:
At the moment we still have the same rear rack which we stock spares of in each warehouse should there be any issues. You're welcome to another one of those to have as a backup just in case there is a problem. We have 55 spares in the US warehouse (I don't know why there are that many).

Despite the problems you had with more than one of these, they're still going strong and we haven't had any reported problems in over a year (to my knowledge).

Sam

I listed all the reasons why people may not contact you about the racks on my website...

The point is you yourself recognized that there is a flaw with them and that they need to be replaced.

You guys went as far as to design a whole new solution for the problem and deploy it...

Why do you refuse to resolve the problem on your end? To fulfill your promise? To apply your warranty?

There is no doubt in my mind that if i were to mount the rear rack that you supply that it would break within a month...

The last time it broke the battery fell off and I swerved into traffic because the battery fell off my bike on one side, I could have died after getting hit by a car... The car managed to brake in time. The next time I may not be so lucky, so I refuse to use another product that will inevitably fail and put my life in danger....

I have not used my bike for over a year now waiting for you guys to create a product that will solve my solution because I believed you when you made your promise and I did not want to risk my "fix" from breaking on the road like your rack did because again, I don't want to die.
 
As long as you are going to the trouble of making your complaint a public issue I believe that there is a bit of information missing. I (we) have no idea what type of bicycle you installed the kit on, the type of riding that you do, the weight of the subject battery pack or your location. All of these items come into play .... perhaps you have an exotic framed full suspension bike that that complicates the problem.

Personally I never considered those silly looking seatpost carrier racks worthy of my time or money. In fact I have one laying around here somewhere that I believe is still in its original packaging (it came with a bicycle I bought).

The model of the bike rack submitted by Dillinger appears to be designed to attached exclusively to a set of rear seat stays. That is indeed possible ... I have done it and carried more that 30 pounds in the panniers hung from its sides. Of course I did not overthink the problem. In fact I chose the simplest, least expensive rear carrier that I could find. I simply attached it to my rear seat stays via 4 "P" clips. Works like a charm and I plan to use to carry my 36V x 12.5 Ahr GM battery for extended trips (via bungee straps).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0089WYU1G
file.php


P.S.
If you are in the US and a new seatpost carrier rack would help resolve the disagreement then I would be happy to contribute the one that I have. I certainly have no use for it. Its platform is 12 x 5 inches.
 
I carried 20ah of LiFePO4 around on the back of my bike, up and over mountains using one of Dillenger's racks before it was mounted in the triangle of my frame.
Is it ideal for that? No. is it designed for that? No, but it did the job because I installed it right and I didn't expect too much of it and then have a huge tantrum full of indignant public outrage about it either.
The way the OP has carried on like a frocking lunatic speaks for itself. Its not gone un-noticed to me throughout this kid's tirade the combative slant of his argument is such that he should never have to accept any assistance from the seller but that he is content to sit in the corner and suck his thumb for a year while he waits for a new rack. Ha, laughable.

All I've seen from Dillenger on here is patience and a willingness to help.
I would have told you to go and frock yourself? You just bring ES down.
 
LewTwo said:
As long as you are going to the trouble of making your complaint a public issue I believe that there is a bit of information missing. I (we) have no idea what type of bicycle you installed the kit on, the type of riding that you do, the weight of the subject battery pack or your location. All of these items come into play .... perhaps you have an exotic framed full suspension bike that that complicates the problem.

Personally I never considered those silly looking seatpost carrier racks worthy of my time or money. In fact I have one laying around here somewhere that I believe is still in its original packaging (it came with a bicycle I bought).

The model of the bike rack submitted by Dillinger appears to be designed to attached exclusively to a set of rear seat stays. That is indeed possible ... I have done it and carried more that 30 pounds in the panniers hung from its sides. Of course I did not overthink the problem. In fact I chose the simplest, least expensive rear carrier that I could find. I simply attached it to my rear seat stays via 4 "P" clips. Works like a charm and I plan to use to carry my 36V x 12.5 Ahr GM battery for extended trips (via bungee straps).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0089WYU1G
file.php


P.S.
If you are in the US and a new seatpost carrier rack would help resolve the disagreement then I would be happy to contribute the one that I have. I certainly have no use for it. Its platform is 12 x 5 inches.

The bicycle I installed it on is not a full suspension bike, it only has suspension in the front part of the bike.
The battery is a 10AH battery and its pretty damn heavy. The problem is that LA's streets aren't exactly the best paved, so the ride is bumpy. The problem with dillenger's racks is that even when installed correctly I can hear vibration coming from it, which eventually causes it to fail.... the plate that attaches to the battery is loosely connected to the frame of the rack, you can see all the photos of where it failed at http://www.dillengerelectricbicycles.com

I thank you for the offer, but the rack in your picture shows the exact same weakpoints and is just as thin as the dillenger rack, plus it doesn't have the mount points for the dillenger battery. I don't want to risk it falling off again, I value my life too much. Also the issue here is that the only reason I went with this company is their "full 12 month unlimited warranty on all parts" and they simply refused to send another rack after the first two failed... they've admitted their rack does not work and even developed a solution for it, but refuse to provide me with a working solution...

They went back on their word two ways:
they've admitted their rack does not work and even developed a solution for it, but refuse to provide me with a working solution... yet...
1- They refused to honor their original warranty.
2- They refuse to honor their promise of giving out a better more structurally sound rack that won't fall off and break, or an alternative solution.

hedsik said:
I carried 20ah of LiFePO4 around on the back of my bike, up and over mountains using one of Dillenger's racks before it was mounted in the triangle of my frame.
Is it ideal for that? No. is it designed for that? No, but it did the job because I installed it right and I didn't expect too much of it and then have a huge tantrum full of indignant public outrage about it either.
The way the OP has carried on like a frocking lunatic speaks for itself. Its not gone un-noticed to me throughout this kid's tirade the combative slant of his argument is such that he should never have to accept any assistance from the seller but that he is content to sit in the corner and suck his thumb for a year while he waits for a new rack. Ha, laughable.

All I've seen from Dillenger on here is patience and a willingness to help.
I would have told you to go and frock yourself? You just bring ES down.

Frolicking lunatic? Really?

All I want is for Dillenger to honor their warranty and their promise to me that they will send me out a more stable rack solution for my bicycle. I don't think that's too much to ask and I don't think that makes me a "frolicking lunatic". I am willing to accept the fulfillment of their promise to me, to replace a shoddy part that they themselves admitted is flawed. I paid for a system that is supposed to work, but it doesn't.

Also, what do you expect me to do, ride the bicycle with a fixed rear rack and risk the battery falling off again at high speed in the middle of traffic? Yeah, I'll go ahead and "sit in the corner" and "suck my thumb" as you put it, I actually like living. I actually thought Dillinger was really going to tackle this issue and deliver on it's promise, I didn't expect them to basically tell me to screw off a year later, and offer me another one of their self-admitted shoddy racks.

Also, I think maybe you haven't been following this thread too closely... how can you say that you are seeing "willingness to help" when they promised a working solution but are essentially telling me now that they won't honor their promise and that they can't help me beyond giving me more of their self-admittedly shoddy racks? How does that make them "willing to help"? I bought a bicycle kit with an "unlimited 12 month unlimited warranty" that is a paperweight because of their UNWILLINGNESS to help.

I'll even TLDR it for you:
-Company sells product, product does not function properly, breaks
-Company says "yeah, our product is faulty, we'll provide a fix for you in a year.
-a year later Company says "Yeah, no, we aren't going to provide you with that fix, you're on your own, sorry"
How is that show any "willingness to help"?
 
Hey dillenger, how about you send me one of these "Hardcase" battery packs since that is the solution that you came up with and I'll go ahead and send back my 10AH battery back? I can make the exchange at your local distributor, the battery hasn't been used past the points where your rack failed.

This solves the rack issue altogether, and fulfills your warranty and promise to me.
 
blackjackel said:
The bicycle I installed it on is not a full suspension bike, it doesn't have any suspension at all, it's a mongoose deception as seen here: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mongoose-Deception-29-Men-s-Mountain-Bike/16913451
Thank you for the clarification.

blackjackel said:
The battery is a 10AH battery and its pretty damn heavy. The problem is that LA's streets aren't exactly the best paved, so the ride is bumpy.
I live in Houston, so trust me when I say that I uncomfortably familiar the the deterioration of pavements in this country in general and more specifically in my neighborhood. By the way my GM battery pack weighs in at 12 pounds ... the mounting plate adds another 1-1/2 (best I remember).

blackjackel said:
I thank you for the offer, but the rack in your picture ...
Just to clarify ... the rack in the picture was NOT the one that I was offering but rather a possible solution.

blackjackel said:
...the rack in your picture shows the exact same weakpoints and is just as thin as the dillenger rack...
One minor difference ... that top frame is made of solid 7.7mm diameter aluminum bar stock... not tubes. Its platform is 16-3/8 x 4-3/4 inches.

In any case I believe that this horse has been beat to death and that no amount of effort will raise it from the grave.
 
LewTwo said:
blackjackel said:
The bicycle I installed it on is not a full suspension bike, it doesn't have any suspension at all, it's a mongoose deception as seen here: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mongoose-Deception-29-Men-s-Mountain-Bike/16913451
Thank you for the clarification.

blackjackel said:
The battery is a 10AH battery and its pretty damn heavy. The problem is that LA's streets aren't exactly the best paved, so the ride is bumpy.
I live in Houston, so trust me when I say that I uncomfortably familiar the the deterioration of pavements in this country in general and more specifically in my neighborhood. By the way my GM battery pack weighs in at 12 pounds ... the mounting plate adds another 1-1/2 (best I remember).

blackjackel said:
I thank you for the offer, but the rack in your picture ...
Just to clarify ... the rack in the picture was NOT the one that I was offering but rather a possible solution.

blackjackel said:
...the rack in your picture shows the exact same weakpoints and is just as thin as the dillenger rack...
One minor difference ... that top frame is made of solid 7.7mm diameter aluminum bar stock... not tubes. Its platform is 16-3/8 x 4-3/4 inches.

In any case I believe that this horse has been beat to death and that no amount of effort will raise it from the grave.

Ah yes, the bars can be as sturdy as possible, but where it will fail will be the joins and solder points, if those aren't secure then they will fail... anywhere where there can be any vibration outside of the frame itself without a ridiculous amount of support will fail. Also look at dillenger's own answer, they are uncomfortable having that much weight that high up on the bike, it was never a good idea which is why they designed their new battery mounting system and abandoned the rear rack completely.... In the older thread they admitted that it was a bad solution and that it wasn't designed for this application and that it was modified for this application.


Which horse? The "dillenger won't do anything about this issue" horse? Well, not really, it started getting beat a year ago, they agreed on a fix, i waited a year and a half, so the horse has had time to recover, be alive, run around, and now it's just started getting beat again... it's not quite dead yet. I don't think them going back on their promise on providing an adequate solution is acceptable. If a company sells a kit and "unlimited warranty's" it for a year and it fails completely, I think they should fix it... You don't buy a computer, have the processor crash over and over and have the manufacturer admit the processor was faulty, tell you they'll fix it in a year, then a year later say "well, we can send you another one of the broken processors again, sorry, we're not going to fix it for you like we said"

As of this point I'm asking dillenger to send me out the solution they rolled out with in exchange for my battery, which hasn't been used, so we'll see what happens there. Hopefully they agree and I can start using my kit again.
 
Moved to toxic because of where this threads tone is headed. I'd rather move the thread and ignore it, than start having to warn people about getting personal.
 
dogman dan said:
Moved to toxic because of where this threads tone is headed. I'd rather move the thread and ignore it, than start having to warn people about getting personal.

You're assuming something. You moved this thread based on an assumption of where you think it might go vs where it is.

I was never going to attack anyone personally, I was asking dillenger to replace my battery with the solution that they came up with, and that's where the thread is heading, what's so toxic about that?
 
Not you, or Dillenger, that is the problem.
 
dogman dan said:

Got something to add Dan?

Blackjackle, we've never shied away from our warranty obligations. Did we offer to replace your rack, more than once? Yes. Did we offer you a full refund for the entire kit? Yes. Are we still, after over a year, willing to offer you a replacement rack? Yes.

Your attempts to make us look terrible are a joke, which you can read back over if you like. Your threads trying to make us look bad resulted in more business for us by the people who viewed it.

My only regret is that I spent time on a better rear rack design. After over a year there's not been a single problem with these. There are 3 known failures to date, and you are 2 of those.

Our trademark is approved in the US this year, so you'll be hearing from us very soon regarding your use of our trademark in your websites from over a year ago (the outright infringement, brand dilution, etc).



We're not sending you a new hardcase. That would be absolutely ridiculous.

I also find it oddly amusing that this thread was put into 'toxic discussion' area only to be put back into 'general discussion' and then after it had gone quiet DogManDan bumps it up to get a reply (above).

Dan, I find it really amusing that the company you work for (a competitor of ours) sell the exact same rack in question as an upgrade to your rear rack battery kit: http://www.ebikekit.com/accessories/for-batteries/racks/topeak-beam-mtx/

What kind of forum allows a vendor to moderate a post that's (attempting to) slag off their competition?

I'm not going to be commenting on this post again as the solicitor now involved has advised me not to discuss the matter in a public forum.

Sam
 
Hey,, to all. I screwed up touching this thread. Other moderators did not agree with what I did. Now I screwed up again bumping the thread so it was not buried because of what I did.

But for the record, the part I thought was toxic was not what Dillenger was saying. It was the fight brewing between Lew Two and Blackjakcel I thought was going bad. Blackjakcel was right, I should not have moved it in the first place. Somebody else maybe, but not me.

Hey, we aren't perfect here, moderating this place is far from easy. If you all want it, I can quit too. Very tempting, since you get nothing much in return for all the effort.
 
Dillenger - Please reconsider throwing such ugly accusations at Dogman? He’s merely human, working with limited time and openly admitted to an unfortunate blunder.

I do see your point but I've followed this thread enough so that I eventually understood his genuine motives. And knowing the man long enough, myself and others' will vouch that he ain’t gonna stoop to the level you’re accusing him of.

IMO, you're definitely not losing this battle but hurling ugly "accusations" towards a good, honest, well respected friend to the eBike industry could change that in the minds of many.
 
I for one would not buy anything from dillenger or refer anyone to them. keep up the good work dogman.
 
Appreciate all the assistance that DM has provided to me both in these threads and when I was making a purchase, but Sam @ Dillinger was extremely concerned & helpful with a controller problem in a front hub kit that I purchased from them. Two years later the kit performs perfectly.
 
dogman dan said:
It was the fight brewing between Lew Two and Blackjakcel I thought was going bad.
My apologies if I offended anyone. That was not my intent.
 
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