hightekbikes.com motor kit review. Electric bike kit.

No tuck for me, I ride with bmx handlebars catching all the wind I can, coat half unzipped, on knobby tires. Still never go less than 23 mph. Lifepo4 is great, with a 20 ah 36v, I never see less than 40 volts. Very little voltage sag.
 
how great can your life be when the batteries cost more than bike & kit combined ? probably funner. An ebayer is selling lightly used lifepo 36v 20 ah starting bid is $535.
 
Thank god I bought when it was cheaper! Lightly used, uh huh. That describes all mr lau lifepo4's :cry:
 
It sounds as though both DogMan and eKingSting are both happy with their Aotema motors. That's great to hear. hightekbikes.com is currently offering the Aotema for $329. (But they do not advertize a 20" wheel. Rats! That's what I need. They would probably custom build one if I asked nicely or paid the right price.)

Can anyone compare the Aotema to the Nine Continents or eZee motors? On ebikes.com, the Nine Continents is currently selling for $435 and it is available on a 20" wheel and comes with the Cycle Analyst (which sounds pretty cool indeed). The eZee is $750 and is also available on a 20" wheel but doesn't come with the Cycle Analyst. (That's another $110.)

I have a 40-mile round-trip commute that I used to do two to three times each week. I really want to get back to at least this amount of commuting so I want to buy something very reliable and robust. From what has been posted, a Ping 36-volt or 48-volt, 15-amp or 20-amp lithium iron phosphate battery would be more than sufficient and should be fairly long-lasting and trouble-free. (On pingbattery.com, 36-volt, 15 amp batteries are currently selling for $385 and 48-volt, 20-amp batteries are currently selling for $598.)

My gut feeling is that the extra $100 for the Nine Continents seems to be worth it over the Aotema, especially if an Aotema 20" wheel is unavailable or the custom order will cut into the $100 difference. The eZee for over $300 more than the Nine Continents seems like a pricey alternative but if the quality and reliability are dramatically better than the Aotema and Nine Continents motors, than I would be more than willing to pay the difference.

Still researching but getting closer to a decision ...
 
The aotema is a good solid commuter, but with that motor, you really need the 20 ah battery. Someday you will not have a full charge, or you will have a nasty headwind for 20 miles. With a 25 mph headwind, even the 20 ah is going to be small for 20 miles.

Depending on your riding style the ezee may be better for you. Gearmotors with an internal freewheel can be more efficient, since you can do more hypermiling, where you run the motor 30 seconds, coast 30 seconds, and pedal 30 seconds, extending range greatly.

For smaller wheel sizes, its hard to beat the ebikes ca 400 motors since they come in different windings for smaller wheels. I think the 9 continents has that too, but I don't know about the ezee.

All I have ever ridden is aotema and heinzmann, so I can't really say if the others are better or not. But it sounds to me like the best deal on that size is going to be at ebikes-ca. If Terry was to take the same aotema motor I have and lace it in a 20 " you would lose some speed. Not a problem if you want 15 mph though.
 
I may have run across a 36v 30ah lithium type battery somewhere on the web, though this would be costly and getting heavy. You should keep an open mind about other battery types, too. Maybe Nicad. An electric scooter/moped will cover that 20 miles easily but your dealing with a 150 lbs machine that you would not want to pedal too far.
 
Absolutely right, the whole battery thing is evolving, I have sla's on one bike, lifepo4 on another, and nicad will arrive soon for the third. When I am in a hurry, I take the gas scooter. I also combine ebike and bus like I did today. I love the lifepo4, but I can't afford three of em yet! But for the long rides, 15-20 miles, its hard to find anything better than some kind of lithium battery. I'm thinking my current ping will work well for a long time on shorter range bikes when it won't do my commute anymore.
 
where can I find nicad for ebikes? Most of the stuff out there is for cordless tools. The boast on Nicad is 2000 cycles and indefinite storage time without charging . The negatives seem to be it's carcinogenic, anti-enviromental, memory and overcharging. But the technology is improving. I'm sure the Aotema will zing with nicad as they charge up higher than SLA. My 9.4 v Milwaukee charges up to 12 v +.
 
We do not offer the motor kit in a 20" wheel. It would not be cost effective for you to have us build a custom wheel. The 24", 26", and 700C sizes all use the same motor. Other manufacturers make different versions for different size wheels. The windings are different to provde the desired speed and efficiency. It's ok to use the same motor for a couple differnt sizes, you loose some speed whith a smaller wheel, and loose torque with the larger wheel.

This brings up a point that I have been wondering about and plan to test. Most manufacturers design the windings for around 15-17 MPH, the Aotema being an exception. Lots of people want to go 20-25MPH. One thing you can do is increase the voltage by 12V (usually the controller won't mind) but this is a big bump. You can do that with our motor increasing speed to 26mph at 48V. I have also bumped up a Bafang from 24V 15mph to 36V 20mph and just tried a 24V Tonxin in a 16" wheel at 36V. But what if you want an incremental step and not change the voltage. How about putting a motor wired for a 24" wheel at 15mph into a 26" wheel? Or a motor wired for a 26 wheel into a 20" wheel but increasing the voltage? What gives you the best efficiency? The different combinations can provide some flexibility.

So first check to see if the motor is actually wired for the different wheel sizes and what is the speed for the desired size. I have installed our Tonxin, wired for a 16" wheel 12mph, into a 20" wheel that went about 17mph with some loss of torque. That was for a very light weight recumbant. The motor kits mentioned are all very strong, powerful, and medium weight so they belong on a medium to heavy bike. If you have a light bike, like a folder, I would recommend a lighter motor like the Bafang. Make sure you have enough width in the front fork (3 1/2")
 
I just opened up my motor and see 7 wires. So this is a 7 turns on the winding motor. Comparable to a crystalyte 407, except judging by pics I have seen of clyte, much better machine work. Dang high quality looking to me! Very much an improvement on my 2007 brushed hub, which is quite crude indeed. This is much better, with lots of magnets, and They may be as wide as 35 mm. I didn't even think of removing the core from the hub, so I am guessing they are as long on the other side as they are on the wires side. No wonder it has some good torque, that is a lot of magnet.

Since this is a seven turn winding motor, it's fast, but not so fast as to be unable to climb a hill with a 26" wheel. I bet it's optimum performance is in a 24" but I think it works great at 26". I have a big hill to climb, but it's still just a 10% grade so I don't need the small wheel with this motor on my ride.

For a complete thread on opening this motor see ebikes technical, Installing a temperature sensor in an Aotema brushless motor.

Aotema brushless inside.jpg7 wires.jpg
 
Back to the subject of nicads, Ebikes-ca has em, but you'd like one of Terry's lifepo4 better I think. I just bought some 24v nicad for my ev global. It should be an improvement over sla, but the only reason I went nicad, is that the lifepo4 prismatic cells are a poor fit in the battery bay on the bike. I'm thinking the nicad would work best with a 20 amp or lower controller, so they may work ok with an aotema controller.
 
Cool pictures. Be careful. I just ran my Aotema on nicad for experiment. 4 packs 9.6 volt each 1.3 amp milwaukee drill packs wired in series. Voltage was 42.5 . I took off and hit 19.5 mph and the yellow came on. turns out one of the drill packs is dead, so I went about 1.9 miles total on about 32 to 30 volts. Where was the controller cutoff?
What I got was some sputter in the motor. It would happen about every 20 seconds. After 1.9 miles the bike was only doing 6 mph. It was a gradual decline. At that point my pack read 29.9 volts. I thought cutoff meant automatic shut-off. I learned something! Second, these 4 drill packs only weighed 4 lbs, so we have a little biased results. Third, 26 mph (no wind) is possible with 4 working packs.
 
Sounds about like the results I got with some 24v nimh drill packs I have in the shop. It was just such a small pack, I'd get about a mile out of em max. I was running two drill packs, paralell, but the thing was only about 2 ah, and once one was used, I'd slow way down. What I am going to try on the evgloblal is 8 ah nicad paralelled with 12 ah sla. Hopefully with 20 ah total capacity, voltage sag won't be too bad, and I won't run the sla's down to the bone every ride like I do now. I'll be happy if this setup gives me about 12 ah of usable power with less strain on both packs.
 
Wow! I think I'm starting to be able to speaka' da' language. If I understand DogMan correctly, the Aotema & Nine Continents are direct drive motors which induce drag into the pedaling whereas the eZee motor is a geared motor which freewheels. Also, many thanks to Terry from HighTekBikes.com for his input. I have the same excited but uneasy feelings I had when I first started searching for a high-quality, long-lasting recumbent back in 1994. Then, as now, there were a few available good choices in recumbent bicycles (with a few available not-so-good choices) but there was a scarcity of good information and very little long-term history.

Some of those made of more adventuresome and hearty stock are more than willing to start inexpensively, piecing together two, three, or more bikes until ultimately hitting upon a low-cost combination that works for them. If I were more accomplished, that is the route I would probably take.

Many thanks to all for your help.
 
Maybe just stupid? Three ebikes in the garage at the moment. But I haven't tried the ezee yet :lol:

I am hearing good things about the nine continents, better machining than cyrstalyte etc. Now that I've seen inside the Aotema, I am pretty impressed with it though! I have been beating this motor like a red headed stepchild for 450 miles and it looks cherry inside. I was really pretty amazed at the improvement aotema has made in the machining of the inside parts. No wonder there is so small a cogging force with so many magnets and so good a fit. My old brushed motors look like cave man stuff by comparison.
 
Just to let all know my experience with the Aotema ( my first hub motor ebike so I know nothing about other makes) is the drag or cogging is minimal while pedaling no motor assist but the weight of 36lbs of sla batts is a real drag on a hill with my single speed gearing. So far I have never depleted my batts that low as my rides are less than 20 mi. To get 35 mi pedaling would be requierd with lifepos.
 
Professor, you have a 20 mile commute with a 20" wheeled bike? Most people would use a larger wheel for that distance. How fast do you want to go? What kind of bike is this? A small folder? I did some calculations and estimated our motor will go 20mph on a 20" wheel when run on 48V. It would go about 15mph on 36V. The efficiency and torque was excellent, good for hill climbing but doesn't do a whole lot for a long commute. I think you will want to go at least 20 mph on level ground, which wouold get you there in an hour. You need to check how fast those other motors go in a 20" wheel, I'll bet it's less than 20mph. If you are dead set on using that bike, and can spring for a 48V battery, I can build you a custom wheel for $100 extra charge.

A 20 mile commute on a 26" wheeled bike is very doable at a reasonable price. You can stay at 36V and still go 20-22mph. You might get by with a 15AH pack with slight pedaling and no hills, or a 20AH pack for more margin and some hills. The 20" bike is more of a challange, unless you are not in any hurry. As a professor, you know you can't change the law of physics. Our motor kit with 36V 20AH LiFePO4 package deal for less that $900 would fit the bill nicely. You would have to make the decision to have a second bike for the cummute however.
 
That's why several sellers offer motors specially wound for speed (higher RPM) to compensate for smaller 20" wheels. From ebikes.ca:

"In general, if you halve the winding count, you will double the speed of the motor. So a 406 motor is then 33% faster than a 408 motor (8/6 = 1.33) when run at the same voltage. If you run the motors at different voltages that scale with the winding count, then the performance ends up being pretty much identical. A 404 motor at 24V, a 406 motor at 36V, and a 408 motor at 48V will all behave the same. The only difference is that the 404 motor, running at just half the voltage as the 408, would need twice the current in order to achieve the same power output.

Smaller wheels need to spin at a faster RPM in order to reach the same road speed, so for that reason we have generally specified winding counts that decrease in proportion to the diameter. The following combinations at 36 volts will easily be able to maintain the road legal limit of 32kph on the hills and will reach speeds on the flats of about 40 kph:

* 16" wheel - 404
* 20" wheel - 405 or 5303
* 26" or 700cc - 406, 407 or 5304"

Check out the simulator at ebikes.ca to give you an estimate of motor performance depending on your specific configuration. At 36V, 20" wheel, with a 20A controller, the Crystalyte 405 and Nine Continents 2806 both will get you over 22mph.
 
I have to agree, the lower winding counts, and the ability to choose a winding count makes a clyte a better choice in the tiny wheels. The Aotema I have, I counted 7 wires in the winding. I figure it works very well as a compromise for a few wheel sizes. Possiby Ideal for a 26" or 700c wheel, and not bad at all in a 24" especially if you have lots of hills. I am looking at buying a rear motor in the future, and the 407 was the one I was looking at if run at 36v.

Of course, more torque can be good if your dropouts are up to it, and speed can be dealt with with voltage. I bet this motor would really shine at 60v in a 20" wheel! Just get a 24-72v controller and go for it.
 
I wonder what the performance and efficiency difference would be between the Crystalyte 405 and Nine Continents 2806 verses a 24V Bafang made for a 20" wheel with normal speed of 15mph over-volted to 36V to go 20mph. There are two variables the motor is wound for, RPM and operating voltage. There are two things you can change when wiring the motor, number of turns and guage of the wire. You really have to get into some serious motor desgn theory to figure it all out. Dogman reports the Aotema has 7 turns so you would think it would match the 407 motor, but it doesn't. The Aotema is faster and better performance at 36V according to the referenced simulator.
 
There could be a difference in the guage of the winding. But an often overlooked difference in motors is the magnets. That can really affect performance. If the aotema magnets are as wide as they appear, they are pretty big! I didn't have the opposite cover off, so I can't be certain. I was expecting to see 6 windings in there, since the speed seemed to be like a 406, but I have a hard time making a real comparison without actually mounting one and running it on the same battery, and close to equal controllers. In any case, it's a good fast motor, well constructed, and nice sealed bearings. Could be on a better rim, but what really counts, the motor, is nice!
 
HTB_Terry said:
Professor, you have a 20 mile commute with a 20" wheeled bike? Most people would use a larger wheel for that distance. How fast do you want to go? What kind of bike is this? A small folder? I did some calculations and estimated our motor will go 20mph on a 20" wheel when run on 48V. It would go about 15mph on 36V. The efficiency and torque was excellent, good for hill climbing but doesn't do a whole lot for a long commute. I think you will want to go at least 20 mph on level ground, which wouold get you there in an hour. You need to check how fast those other motors go in a 20" wheel, I'll bet it's less than 20mph. If you are dead set on using that bike, and can spring for a 48V battery, I can build you a custom wheel for $100 extra charge.

A 20 mile commute on a 26" wheeled bike is very doable at a reasonable price. You can stay at 36V and still go 20-22mph. You might get by with a 15AH pack with slight pedaling and no hills, or a 20AH pack for more margin and some hills. The 20" bike is more of a challange, unless you are not in any hurry. As a professor, you know you can't change the law of physics. Our motor kit with 36V 20AH LiFePO4 package deal for less that $900 would fit the bill nicely. You would have to make the decision to have a second bike for the cummute however.
Wow, Terry! Thank you so very much for the advice and offer. It is greatly appreciated. I would be more than happy to be able to go a constant 20mph while continuing to pedal. (I still want the exercise.) The bike is none other than my Beloved Mistress, an Easy Racers Gold Rush. I have almost 51,000 miles on my Mistress and she is still going strong. The same can not be said for Yours Truly. It used to take me about 1½ hours but now takes me over 2 hours to get to work. It's mostly flat but the last three miles consist of a serious uphill climb. I'd like to put another 50,000 miles on her. This is the reason for my current line of research regarding electric motors. The idea would be to have two 20" front wheels. The new 20" front wheel would have the motor while I would keep the current 20" front wheel. For recreation, I would pop off the motorized front wheel and pop on the old front wheel. I would find some way to mount the battery so it could be easily taken on and off.

The main reason I bought my Mistress back in 1994 was carpal tunnel syndrome. At the time, I couldn't ride an upright for more than an hour or so without my wrists and hands starting to scream bloody murder. Oh, yeah, the recumbent is far less painful in the area of buttocks, neck, back, butt, and, of course, there is no penile arterial constriction (also known as "numb nuts"). Recumbents are also safer than upright bikes. And my Mistress also now has a bitchin' stereo. However, after several years of yoga and a change of teaching assignments, the carpal tunnel is very much under control. I have an ancient Peugeot mixte which I simply adore but never ride anymore except for one or two mile jaunts to the grocery store or bank. (I have absolutely no idea how many miles is on her.) She just might become a candidate for electrification.

Here is a picture of my Mistress and me (my good side, the rear): http://www.wonderprofessor.com

By the way, I used to believe firmly that you couldn't change the laws of science but George Bush has shown us the way. You simply ignore them and they will go away! Right, George?

Again, thank you very much for your help.
 
I should have known it was a recumbant, nobody would be foolish enough to ride a little foldup for 20 miles twice a day. Do you know what the total weight is for you, the bike , and carryons? This is useful to estimate the ampherer hours needed. With the hill, it's looking like 20AH. I know you want to pedal some, if the gearing was set so you can pedal 20mph, that would help. You most likely want to use 36V as it is more cost effective but that would eliminate our Aotema motor for the speed you need. I think a nice motor for you would be a Bafang wired for 24V and over-volt it to 36V. I don't have any now unfortunately so one of those other kits would be your best bet. I could supply the battery, we have a great LiFePO4 polymer 36V 20AH pack for $579. Oh yeah, check your fork, it has to be steel and needs to be 100mm wide at the axle.
 
First ride with the thermometer inside.

Very interesting! Outside temps were 65-70 F and the ride, the usual 15 miles home, about 1000 ft of uphill and 300 ft downhill vertical along the way, no wind.

Cover temperatures and temperatures measured on the hub body, where the magnets are maxed out at 90 F. But inside on the windings where the thermocouple is, went up to 155! That seemed to be the max for todays weather. Because it was cool, I tried climbing the big hill, 500 feet in a mile, no pedaling at all. Temps at the bottom were around 117, and a few minuites later, at the top, 148. After the hill, comes 5 miles of mostly uphill, with very light grade, almost flat. Eventually the temp climbed to 155, but at a rate of about a degree per mile.

At the very start of the ride, with the hub at about 60 F, temperatures climbed quickly to about 100, in about 4 miles. 130 by about 6 miles, and then it sorta stalled there, reaching 134 by 9 miles and the start of the hill. I took a shopping break in Kmart, and resumed the ride with a temp of 117.

After arriving home, the hub cooled to 130 pretty quick, in about 15 minuites. When I rode another 3 miles, on nearly flat ground, the temp gradually returned to 145 by the time I rode three more miles.


A few conclusions become evident from a single test like this.

1 Cover temperature is much less than the interior temperatures, at least in moderate weather. 65 degrees hotter inside than outside in this test! So if you are feeling for a warm hub, if it feels hot, it is very hot inside. Interesting, since my brushed hub often runs with a cover temp of 140, Is it really 200 F inside? !!! No wonder I melt a brushed hub in this climate! If hub cover temps are getting up to 120 or more, the inside may be getting too hot to continue without risking damage, assuming it's 170F or so inside.

2 At some point, the hub seems to reach an equilibrium, where cooling is getting close to keeping up with heat from inside. I suspect this is very affected by weather, with the point where the hub starts to slow it's temperature rise going up with hotter weather and lower humidity.

3 Continued riding at full throttle may cause a nearly infinite rise in temperature. Even if the climb is slow, the hub seems to keep getting hotter for the entire ride, at least for a ride of 15 miles. There may be, for each hub, a definite maximum full throttle ride length, which varies with the weather.

4 Stops at stop lights show a definite cooling effect. A long enough stop light can cool the hub 5 degrees. So intermittent use of full throttle should help keep the motor cool. On the section where the ride home goes up and down short rolling hills, the hub temp climbed very little, but where the grade was shallow but steady uphill, the temperature would climb steadily. So pausing to peadle some, or coasting down a hill, can help cool the hub. On really long rides, a few 15 minuite breaks should help.


It will be very interesting to see just how hot this hub gets when I ride this June. But all last summer, in the hottest weather, I had no problems with my second brushed hub as long as I kept the ride under 10 miles. The first brushed hub, that I rode 15 miles at a time, melted in 400 miles. So anybody worrying that lives in the desert, can stop fretting about it if thier ride is less than 10 miles. I think what happens is the epoxy on magnets gets gooey and continuing to ride past that point is where the magnets start moving around the motor, so damage is dependent on how much time is spent at hot temperatures. As soon as you stop, the hub cools, and epoxy gets hard again. Hopefully by summer I will have definite safe ranges for different ambient temperatures so we can ride along knowing if it's 95, we can ride this far, and just how much less if it is 100, and so on. I know from others experiences that as long as the hub is not too hot to the touch you can keep riding. But some ballpark ideas of what is a safe ride and what may not be in the summer will help, so we don't have to worry till a certain point in the ride, and then we can check the temp and decide to continue or rest a bit.
 
Do the temps come down quick while off the throttle and coasting on the downhill?
 
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