LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

[Samer]

hey foppel thanks for writing this post, awesome vids too , inspired me alot
was planing in get one kranked e squared kit for my santacruz v10
i think i will stick with lightningRods smallblock,
have you tried it with 52v battery ?
i got 14s6p 52v 50amp continues 80amp burst

 

[Föppel]

looks fancy
whats the Price of this kit? And do you know the reduction ratio?
With the smallblock i would recomend to go 40amp max... but then again, its depending on your reduction ratio.
so if you want 2400w on a smallblock kit, i would go for a 72volt battery @ about 35amp, or 60Volt 40amp.

 

[r3volved]

I've fed the small block up to 5kW @ 72V with no major issues. It DOES wear the drive-train extremely fast and it was fun for a while to tear around and race everything.
I don't do any more than 3kW anymore and that only shows up on large hills...still quick, still powerful - I'm just not racing so I don't really want to replace stuff so quickly.

It'll take it though and it'll take it like a champ. Gets warm after 20 min of continuous high power though. I've never had the motor 'hot to touch'...

 

[Nathan]

I've fed the small block up to 5kW @ 72V with no major issues. It DOES wear the drive-train extremely fast and it was fun for a while to tear around and race everything.
I don't do any more than 3kW anymore and that only shows up on large hills...still quick, still powerful

Your experience matches a few other people who have turned down the power to 3kw as their was too many failures and too much wear.

I have been reading belts last only 200-700 miles before needing changing.

Whats the point of having such a big powerful motor if you cannot use it? You might as well just get the Cyclone/AFT 2.8kw peak 1680w motor that are a lot lighter, smaller and more reliable than the LR. eg. People on here have done nearly 9000 miles on the AFT moded cyclones.

 

[r3volved]

Don't conjecture and put words in my mouth just because we share the same name. Also don't conflate the LR kit with the GnG kit...The only parts I've replaced is rear sprocket, chain and jackshaft axle (Gen1 small block)

I wouldn't care about wear at 5kW if I was using the bike to compete or maybe if I rode the rocky mountains daily...I use it primarily for commuting dummy. There's a point where racing cars and talking to cops loses it's novelty...

The difference between 5kW and 3kW isn't a whole lot at the top end. It reduces the torque strain on heavy acceleration - saving your drive from those peak strains. Takes a whole extra two seconds to top speed...

Why don't you go buy and try instead of trolling the posts that affirm your confirmation bias.

 

[Samer]

its around 3500$ usd reduction on it is 19 to 1 max 1500w cyclone motor
i end up getting Lr

did you had this whoble on your one?
have you try white industries freewheel?

running my small lr kit 52v 14s6p samsung 25r pcm/bms continuum discharge 50amp

[youtube]3izFyfI3Z6s[/youtube]

looks fancy
whats the Price of this kit? And do you know the reduction ratio?
With the smallblock i would recomend to go 40amp max... but then again, its depending on your reduction ratio.
so if you want 2400w on a smallblock kit, i would go for a 72volt battery @ about 35amp, or 60Volt 40amp.

 

[Föppel]

Hey r3volved, remember your name from the first sites of the GNG-Thread, i guess
5KW is pretty dam cool! Whats your reduction on that one?


Samer:
i didnt saw this large amount of wobble on my bikes, but had some wobble in the past.
First, If you didnt screw on the ACS thight on the pedal-arm (i mean... pretty tight...) this can cause some wobble...
i once thought that i had screwed it dam thight, but at first ride, you can always feel how it screws on some more when adding weight on the pedal.

Before doing that, make sure you have the tool to remove the ACS, if it wasnt eliminating the wobble

if thats the case (still wobble), try to eliminate the wobble by adding a washer before screwing the ACS on the crank... between crank and ACS. If you dont have a solid washer (i think i buyed them from SBP, but not sure, long time ago), you can try one of the spacer from your ISIS Bottombracket, they will fit... but look not like made for that purpose. So maybe just use it once for try if it eliminate wobble.

on this pic, you see the ISIS-washer to the HD-Freewheel... not sure if i added washer maybe only because of the chainline-spacing, that is tight fit to my chainguide... Can anyone recommend a good foto-upload-site with scaling-function?

if still wobble... hmm... maybe the ACS is not closed propper (the ACS have those wholes on the top-Ring for tightening, check this too...)... or invest the extra money in a HD-Freewheel :?


about the talking of parts that get eaten; i still use the "not strong-axle of the first badge of Smallblocks ever build", and also the "not strong enough Sheets of the first badge"... Done some welding on the lower sheets, and added some extra love.

im still very happy with the kit, and no problemos with fast wearout.

For me, the Smallblock-Kit was and is my first choice for fun riding, because it deliver more power i need, and is still pretty lightweight.
but im curious too, and would like to check out the cyclone if anyone sends me one for free

 

[notger]

Hi,

Pretty nic what you guys did with your LR-kits.

I also hit the limits of my LR-Kit, but actually not torque wise, rather motor heat wise.

So i still use the Original GNG motor, wich is about 8mm slimmer that the LR-motor.
With my kelly-controller, 1500 watts would be the limit to really climb for several minutes without getting the motor above 100°C

Now with my adaptto, i can go up to 2500 Watts and ride around 15 km but sometime beeing really close to the 100°C limit i set.
Once beeing that hot it also gets pretty challenging to cool the motor down while still riding along.

So you really do not have heat troubles with your LR-motors ! small Blocks ?!?

greets

Notger

 

[80for20]

That's wicked!!

Do I understand correctly hat you have the Adaptto working with the L-R small block? Any issues?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[notger]

That's wicked!!

Do I understand correctly hat you have the Adaptto working with the L-R small block? Any issues?

I never had big issues, so i think the problemd discussed here were with old firmware.

I do not think that it makes any difference that i sill use the original GNG Motor, not the one From Mike.
The Kit is running pretty well on up to 2500 watts for around 1500km now.

on a bike stand, full throttle, without load the motor sounds shaky, but riding it with load on full throttle worked very!very fine until now.
You can look intor the adaptto owners od Lighning rod Thread, i posted a while ago about LR+Adaptto.

But back to you 3kw guys.

What volts and Amps do you use to get the 3kw ?
cause maybe its the fact that i (just)use 15s (60Volts) with ~30-40 Amps and get this heatproduction in my Motor.

??
Notger

 

[Föppel]

Hi Notger, thanks for writing here, nice to heare that your GnG still running well.
I had a GNG some time ago, did the whole Nr.25-Chain (? the small one with the same pitch like the 219, but tiny...) mod. Ended with a Reduction way to big, 30km/h on 88Volt, annoying noise... and to much torque
then decided to buy the whole thing new from mike.

We dont have porblems with overheat, running 45amp max, continous is more like 35amp. But we dont have temp sensors, we can only tell by hand-test... it never was that hot we couldnt touch it for long time

We use the 12 fet-lyen controllers on the most Bikes. 21S-Packs with 25R, get a max of something around 3200w shown when CA is set to 3500w max. that tells me that Controller is on his max? or my CA-settings are shit?
Maybe its bove, im not much a "controller-guy"

Also my throttle (-settings...) still not ideal. like 2-3mm turning throttle gets from 1-100%. This is ok at 1000w power, but on my current setting it get uncontrollable.
dont want more power, still have to learn to handle what i have now.

i want that it acts as direct as possible, but with a wider range of the throttle... someone a idea which of the 1000 CA-Settings to change?

 

[Samer]

hey notger can you post some photos of your bike?
how hard is to setup adaptto on LR?

cheers

That's wicked!!

Do I understand correctly hat you have the Adaptto working with the L-R small block? Any issues?

I never had big issues, so i think the problemd discussed here were with old firmware.

I do not think that it makes any difference that i sill use the original GNG Motor, not the one From Mike.
The Kit is running pretty well on up to 2500 watts for around 1500km now.

on a bike stand, full throttle, without load the motor sounds shaky, but riding it with load on full throttle worked very!very fine until now.
You can look intor the adaptto owners od Lighning rod Thread, i posted a while ago about LR+Adaptto.

But back to you 3kw guys.

What volts and Amps do you use to get the 3kw ?
cause maybe its the fact that i (just)use 15s (60Volts) with ~30-40 Amps and get this heatproduction in my Motor.

??
Notger

 

[notger]

hey notger can you post some photos of your bike?
how hard is to setup adaptto on LR?

Like i said, with the newest firmware, the adaptoo worked right away with autodetect without major problems.
I do not use a "original" LR-Kit.
It a Old GNG LR Mutant (i will add some photos, but i just took the whole thing apart)
Its basicly the bike of my profile picture, but instead of the chain reduction you can see there i use a HTD5 Belt reduction like LR-kits do now.
The motor is ecxacly the same, just 10mm narrower than Mikes.

And also like said you can read some advices an experiences of my in the adaptto user thread or the LR-kit thread (use the search for Notger, Adaptto, ....)

My kit will get a general inspection an some changes, so it will take a while until ill post photos.

Notger

 

[Samer]

Hi Notger, thanks for writing here, nice to heare that your GnG still running well.
I had a GNG some time ago, did the whole Nr.25-Chain (? the small one with the same pitch like the 219, but tiny...) mod. Ended with a Reduction way to big, 30km/h on 88Volt, annoying noise... and to much torque
then decided to buy the whole thing new from mike.

We dont have porblems with overheat, running 45amp max, continous is more like 35amp. But we dont have temp sensors, we can only tell by hand-test... it never was that hot we couldnt touch it for long time

We use the 12 fet-lyen controllers on the most Bikes. 21S-Packs with 25R, get a max of something around 3200w shown when CA is set to 3500w max. that tells me that Controller is on his max? or my CA-settings are shit?
Maybe its bove, im not much a "controller-guy"

Also my throttle (-settings...) still not ideal. like 2-3mm turning throttle gets from 1-100%. This is ok at 1000w power, but on my current setting it get uncontrollable.
dont want more power, still have to learn to handle what i have now.

i want that it acts as direct as possible, but with a wider range of the throttle... someone a idea which of the 1000 CA-Settings to change?

Hey Foppel

I had same thing with my troutle. 1-100% 2mm
It is just setting the ca right.
I can post a vid if you want with the right settings

 

[Samer]

Santa Cruz v10

 

[Föppel]

Hey Samer, nice bike man! I really like the shape of the v10
Did you get rid of the chainwheel-wobble?

i found a CA-manual in my native language, so i was able to get the throttle better, and finaly understand some setting-parameters better, but thanks for the offer.

then, last ride, my jackshaft axle bent. still the first badge, weak steel-axle...
before riding, i mentioned a change in belt tension (first time for about 500km without tooling/tensioning someting)... and i didnt set it properly before riding on 75v40amps... axle bent on the 219-side, where there is more force, shiat!

So i will upgrade this part soon, and maybe do some other changes to make the bike lighter.

 

[Föppel]

New Parts are on the way to us, including some nice new jackshafts with 15mm axles, deleted Freewheel as we had before, but this time with a late-turned aluminium-adapter between axle and 90t beltpully, nice!

the whole jackshafthousing is now aluminium, what makes the kit a bit lighter too.
Maybe i also make the bike "ghetto-tubeles" and install the lightweight 200mm boxxxer, i dont use on the Dirtbike right now... will see.


anyway, i just finished a short video of some gypsy-riding, here it is

[youtube]OIXV8RxOEvg[/youtube]

 

[John Bozi]

Hey I just spotted your wd40 love. I tried this a while back and still wonder if I should or shouldn't use it. I think there is something about it that degreases parts its not meant to? And as you say it creeps, be realllllly careful it doesn't creep into a bearing. But yeah most the time it seems to work excellent...

MC lubricant just sticks dirt but the MC chain cleaner I tried seems similar to wd40 and the high pressure it blows off the crud is pretty cool. but after that it seems it gets a bit crunchy sounding if any gravel is still in there.....

Not sure. The quietest I've had the chain is with lots of expensive bicycle dry lube. But it costs a few dollars every 10ah ride. Been through a million old clothes wiping chains down every ride, it really is a pain in the ......

Any how love your work here

 

[Föppel]

yeah man, its a hate-love-thing with that wd40... i dont know it either.
it comes out that can, it cleans and "oils", all in one step --> great

i heard it can melt some sort of plastics, and yeah, the creep-ability maybe isnt a good thing for bearings, i dont know.
most of the time, it seems to work.

the dry lube i tested (this wd40-dry lube thing) did also work good, less mud attraction in dry conditions, but there is no cleaning-power in it.

So i did the same as you wrote and got a fast-cleaning spray.
It really cleaned the shit out of my bike very fast, love it, :lol: but expensive

 

[E-geezer]

FWIW, WD-40 is just kerosense and oil, it's great as a penetrating oil to free rusted parts or general external lube, like on tools to keep them from rusting. It sucks for actually lubing something though like chains. I like Squirt as a bike lube, it's clean and lasts a long time, I'm not sure how well it would work for you guys though. Maybe motorcycle chain lube. some people just use engine oil.

 

[Föppel]

that sound like it makes sense, anyway, im out of money right now, and will use whats laying around in my garage.

i think the new 15mm devils-rib-jackshaftaxles come this week, so i hope to fix + upgrade my bike soon and will let you guys now how the new parts perform. So next video in 1-2 weeks, i hope

...For the meanwhile, my buddy got a LMX to fool around, maybe do a video of this bike too, but adam make the better ones anyway 8)

Cheers guys

 

[Föppel]

got my new parts; upgraded Jackshafts, new adapters for the big belt-pully, some sprokets and small stuff...
had them laying around for some days, Installed it all today.


New 15mm Jackshaft scale:


old Jackshaft on a scale:

scale says... old... yeah i allready know this...
scale goes up to 400g i guess, so its... not very scintific what i did there

new parts Beltside


other side:



old first-badge-Jackshaft with broken axle:



New 15mm jackshaft in alu housing VS old dirty first-badge Jackshaft


some of the last parts to re-install:



Very happy with the new parts, look much higher grade and much easyer to replace sproket and beltpully-adapter now. Also 15mm axle (instead of 12mm - old axle) makes a big difference, and i would love to try 3500-4000W, but controller restrict to about 3200 max. (Lyen 12 fet at 75V)
Now have to finish the bike, cant wait to ride it again

will probably weld the jackshaft in place with 1 or 2 weld-dots per side, as im not planing to change anything on the reduction in future.


Cheers guys

 

[Föppel]

oh, and have to build a mudguard, the whole kit was filled with dirt



foto before upgrade to 15mm axle

 

[John Bozi]

so you got 18t on the secondary side? mmm I was told that 15t max on that side can fit under the tensioning bolt bits....

 

[Föppel]

nope, 18t fits in pretty good