hightekbikes.com motor kit review. Electric bike kit.

[dogman dan]

Rearengine, I don't know anything about aotema serial numbers. The WE kits sold last summer were a few mph slower, but Terry says they are now selling the same kind he has. It just depends on if you got sold an item from new stock, or some ebayer's left over from last summer. The slower motor had no problems 48v won't fix.

 

[HTB_Terry]

Marty,

I will send you a new charger. After you receive it, you can send the original one back so we can examine and consult with the supplier. Please send me an email with your full name and order numer number (if you still have it). Thanks.

Terry

 

[RTLSHIP]

any idea how long those front hub bearings last or need lube? this is supposedly the only thing that needs upkeep on a
Aotema brushless hub, apart f/ broken or failed parts.

 

[dogman dan]

Certainly for thousands of miles. Unless of course, they get damaged somehow, like you pull a cover crooked. The most miles I personally have on a single motor is 2000. I would assmume that at the low speeds they spin at, compared to other electric motors, the lifespan would be as long as the seals keep water and dirt out.

 

[dogman dan]

Really fun day today. Put the bike on the car's rack and drove to Siver City, where Lance Armstrong, Levi Lipheimer, Chris Horner, and Floyd Landis were riding in the Tour of the Gila. To get to the good spot to watch em pass, I rode to Pinos Altos, about 5 miles of 5% grade above town, and staked out a patch of 7% grade. They still flew by too fast to get a good picture, but I did see him. The bike did well on the loooong grade, climbing it at a slowish speed to slow the heating, and stopping once to cool off when I got to 150f, I was able to get there with no bad things happening to the motor. Most of the climb was made at 12 mph, and the steep bits did need full throtte. But mostly, 3/4 was plenty to go 12 mph, and the motor could sustain that for quite a ways without overheating. When I got to the viewing spot, I was of course, the only ebike there. At least they didn't try me for heresy.

 

[Christobel931]

Hey Dogman,

Thought I'd share this with you since you mentioned you didn't have a CA or WU meter.

I have the same kit as you purchased as a WE-BL36, but as HTB Terry has mentioned, it is the same kit. I installed a WU meter as I really NEED TO KNOW whats UP

Anyhow, here are some pics taken after a typical run to gym, walfart, and home... So. OC California, lots of rolling hills... My route has some 10~12% sections and alot of 4-7% on the way home as I mentioned in another thread. About 12miles total today.

I pushed the motor pretty hard to get these #'s, not to the point of stalling, but I think to the limit of the controller. 8)

 

[WonderProfessor]

Anyhow, here are some pics taken after a typical run to gym, walfart, and home... So. OC California, lots of rolling hills... My route has some 10~12% sections and alot of 4-7% on the way home as I mentioned in another thread. About 12miles total today.

Okay, I'll be the first one to appear stupid. Just exactly what are we looking at and what does it mean? Is it good? Is it bad? Does it mean you have plenty of juice left? Or is the battery almost completely discharged?

Expiring minds want to know!

 

[Christobel931]

Okay, I'll be the first one to appear stupid. Just exactly what are we looking at and what does it mean? Is it good? Is it bad? Does it mean you have plenty of juice left? Or is the battery almost completely discharged?

Expiring minds want to know!

Haha, well, I guess I was attempting to show what, I myself, was curious about before I purchased this kit... this shows the "real world" performance instead of the Big Bold numbers on the websites. For example this kit is listed by WE as a "500W motor with a 750Wpeak"... so I was interested to see that I pulled over 800Wp (peak watts) on the first easy hill! Also, I've seen this kit advertised in the past with a 50amp controller, then a 30amp, then it was said to be limited to 20amp, so I now know that it really draws about 23amps max. So, on the hardest hill I was drawing about 23amps at about 37volts, for 860 watts...

The numbers pictured are peak Watts, Amps, and Min. Voltage during my ride today, which is a typical ride for me.

I only used ~4.5ah on this ride, but that is because of my particular setup, terrain, weight, pedaling effort, etc. so i didn't include that. Hope this helps.

I thought anyone looking to purchase this kit would find these numbers interesting... :wink: 8)

Edit: This also tells me that Lithium batteries kick azz...

 

[HTB_Terry]

Chris, before you start hammering on that battery you should break it in. To allow new cells to equalize properly it is recommended to do at least ten cycles of 25% discharge and keep it on the charger when not in use. It is even more important with large packs, 48V or 36V 15AH and larger dure to the greater number of cells.

 

[dogman dan]

Thanks, I don't think we need to get data on every ride to know it's a 20 amp controller. Your amp numbers are pretty close to what I saw on a test with the 5 buck car ampmeter. Stalling the motor, I still never saw above 25 amps. That's good to know if your battery is a 2c cell, or worse, a 1 c cell like my ping v1. But with a real 2c cell, a 10 amp battery would be fine for a lot of folks who don't want to ride 29 miles a day like I do. I think the claims from WE about a 50 amp controller were pure marketing guys. "20 miles on sla's at 20 mph," riiiiiiight.

The real capabilities of this aotema motor are nice enough for me, with no fudging.

 

[Christobel931]

My intention was just to share the numbers I got with a new meter, thought people might find it interesting... apparently, not so much.

Terry, I have over 10 cycles on the battery, and this example ride, only pulled less that 5ah out so I think I am on the right track?

Chris

 

[Russell]

My intention was just to share the numbers I got with a new meter, thought people might find it interesting... apparently, not so much.

Terry, I have over 10 cycles on the battery, and this example ride, only pulled less that 5ah out so I think I am on the right track?

Chris

It's good to get actual data for this motor. I'd be interested in hard data for questions like these:

What is the no-load current?

Top speed and current at that speed?

What is the current on the flats/no wind at 17mph (For comparison to mine at 5.5A) or 20mph (common cruise?).

How many Wh/mile are you using say for a ride at normal bike speeds (14-18mph) with moderate pedaling and when going gonzo with little pedaling?

-R

 

[Christobel931]

I have a GPS that I use on my other bikes, so that will not show us unloaded speed, it draws a little over 2amps unloaded.

I can tell you I get an easy 25~26mph on the flats with 26"x 2" big apple tire, 28 with pedaling as fast as I can, and maintain 16-20+mph up my normal grades, usually 6-10% max. with decent pedal assistance... I really don't ride without pedaling using the motor only, as it just feels wrong for some reason. I still ride it like a bike, but am able to ride more errands and stuff without destroying my knees.

Additional data will have to wait till I handlebar mount the WU meter. Again, this was just some supplemental data to add to the original review which was quite thorough and spot on... In my case, I learned what MY bike would do, and also that the WE kit, and the HTB kits are essentially the same.

Hope this helps... carry on

 

[OneWayTraffic]

Well it was interesting to me. It's good to see some real world data on stuff.

 

[WonderProfessor]

My intention was just to share the numbers I got with a new meter, thought people might find it interesting... apparently, not so much.

On the contrary, it was fascinating. The only problem was I had no idea what I was looking at! I get it now. p stands for peak and m stands for minimum. Thank you very much.

It's also very encouraging. I plan to purchase an electric motor and battery for my Gold Rush recumbent. It will be a summer project for next semester. So far, I'm favoring an eZee geared motor from ebikes.ca with a ping 48-volt, 20-amp hour battery. I have a 20-mile one-way commute with a killer two-mile hill at the very end of the commute. It used to take me only about 1 1/2 hours -- now it takes over 2 hours. (I'm not worried about how long it takes me to get home.)

I could probably get away with a less expensive direct-drive motor and maybe a 36-volt, 20-amp hour battery but it seems to me that the benefits of the higher-end alternatives are worth the extra money. There are over 51,000 miles on my Gold Rush and I'd like to put another 50,000 on it before I retire in 12 or so years. A sustained pedal/assist speed of twenty miles per hour would be heavenly.

Although it is exciting to see my little watt meter on the right-hand side of my posts going up, I have mostly been reading the posts without offering much in return. (I think this is called "lurking," yes?) But to be truthful, I don't have much to add other than asking dumb questions. I know just enough about electronics to be dangerous. I did wire up a bitchin' stereo system on my Gold Rush. It uses Yamaha computer speakers and a 12-volt, gel-cell, sealed lead-acid battery. It would be cool to get a device to have the stereo operate off the lithium battery. But the lead-acid battery only weighs about 2 pounds.

I promise to post the exciting adventures of Getting-My-First-eBike-Up-And-Running when said adventures start in a few months. Stay tuned!

 

[Christobel931]

WonderProfessor,

I think that that this kit works really well in my limited experience... I bought the kit under the Wilderness Energy brand which included SLA batteries, rear rack and battery bag. The SLA's, rack and bag are in a pile in the garage, maybe I'll build a bike for the girlfriend later

So far the motor, and controller, with my HTB lithium battery work pretty darn good as is, gets up the hills quite well and rides smooth and fast. The problem for me, like alot of folks on this forum is, once I get into something, I like to mess around with it, and see where I can take it... This kit isn't really designed for that, its made to put on your bike as a unit and just run it as is, which it does very well... IMHO. I think at 48V, it would be all the bike one would ever need for common use.

In hindsight, as a tinkerer (is that a word?), and a cycling enthusiast, I should've splurged on a kit with more upgrade/performance options, but that's just me... I should probably be on some sort of medication for OCD. :wink:

Good luck on your build.

 

[dogman dan]

You've done right, it's much cheaper to make the mistakes, if you do, on less expensive stuff. No reason you can't upgrade though, it just has to be pedal first controllers.


Today the first real 90 degree ride home. Motor got hot about a half mile sooner than usual, but never got much over 160 f all the way home. Here it comes, Its supposed to be 98 later in the week.

 

[wakataka]

I've got some data on three different WE kits that I've run over the past year. I've got a BD-36 and two BL-36 kits. I've run them all on both 36v and 48v SLA. There seems to be measurable differences between two different BL-36 kits. The kits appear identical in every way. The differences are likely just due to manufacturing tolerances in the controllers / motors. The older kit, which was purchased last summer, draws an average of 21.4 amps peak. The newer one tops out at about 20 amps peak. The BD-36 draws around 33.4 amps peak.
Other data provided below:

Peak watts are: BD-36 = 1130; BD-48 = 1465; BL-36(old) = 750; BL-48(old) = 960; BL-48(new) = 870

WH/Mile are: BD-36 = 25.4; BD-48 = 27; BL-36(old) = 15.92; BL-48(old) = 18.5; BL-48(new) = 13.2

All of these numbers are averages from at least 6 different rides on late 1980's vintage mountain bikes with upright riding positions and street tires at 50 psi or more. I've got a lot more data on the BD motor than any of the others. It runs hotter and can draw an amazing amount of watts (over 1500 at 48v) if you hammer it. It's always drawing over 1300 watts peak at 48v. I can see how that might trigger your BMS. I find that I don't use a whole lot more WH/mile running at 48 volts than I do at 36v because I'm usually not running at full throttle on 48v. With moderate pedaling and full throttle, I can relatively easily get to 25 mph on the flats, which is about as fast as I feel safe. On even a slight downhill, I'm running 30 mph. I only use full throttle on the steeper hills. My regular commute is relatively flat and only about 3 miles each way, so SLA batteries work just fine for most of my riding. I'm waiting for the costs to come down and reliability to come up before making the switch to more exotic batteries.

To answer a question earlier in the thread about the state of charge for an SLA pack, see the table below. It's just one of several that you can find online, but it seems to work pretty good for my SLA packs.



Percentage of Charge Remaining at Selected Voltage for SLA Battery Packs

12V bat	   36V pack	   48V pack	Percent of Charge
12.73	        39.46	        50.92	100%
12.62	        39.12	        50.48	90%
12.50	        38.75	        50.00	80%
12.37	        38.35	        49.48	70%
12.24	        37.94	        48.96	60%
12.10	        37.51	        48.40	50%
11.96	        37.08	        47.84	40%
11.81	        36.61	        47.24	30%
11.66	        36.15	        46.64	20%
11.51	        35.68	        46.04	10%
11.35	        35.19	        45.40	0%

 

[Christobel931]

Hey thanks for posting those numbers!

Always good to see/hear others experiences... For what its worth, I put one of my original 12v 12ah SLA batts in series with my Lithium pack to get 48V.

Current was the same max, of course, 23amps, pulled about 1200watts max, rode up a couple of my local hills ~6%...

Difference was noticeable but, not huge... top speed went to 30mph on flats from 25 or so.

When I have some money to burn, I may get a 24/72v pedal first controller and a second 36v HTB battery **cough TERRY... cough** for a series or parallel option.

 

[dogman dan]

Thanks for the data Wakataka. Someday I'll just have to break down and get a meter. I also find it more comfortable at 20-25 mph unless I'm on the smoother part of my ride, where there are no intersections for about 2 miles at a stretch. Down in town, 25 is plenty what with people backing out of thier driveways and such. Did a double flip once when that happened to me on a motorcycle. I looked left to see if a car was coming at an intersection and never saw him back out into my path on the right. suddenly I was seeing car paint, sky, dirt, sky again, and then more dirt. Wha happened? :lol:

 

[Christobel931]

Yep, 25 is usually more than enough for me too, but, there are some roads here in OC Ca that are smooth and wide open with bike lanes etc. and with the crazy SUV soccer moms, that occasional burst of speed would actually keep me safer... not a lot of patience, it seems. :lol:

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, I routinely hit 30 going downhill on the way to work, on the baby butt smooth bike lane that is part of the freeway frontage. Any more than that, I want a real frame, not a wallbike mongoose. It's amazing how much it can flex at speed, so I start riding brakes if I get over 30 mph. Fortunately, 80% of my ride is in relatively safe bike lane, or really safe bike trail. The rest I have worked out a back route for, so I ride pretty empty streets, even at lunch hour.

 

[RTLSHIP]

Some of the wiring for this kit and WE kits is 16 AWG. Is this ok. I've heard that 12 gauge is prefered. Though I've never felt hot wire insulation yet, the ampacity charts say otherwise. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[dogman dan]

It's fine for the designed voltage, 36v and ampereage, 20 amps.

 

[RTLSHIP]

I now think the wire gauge ratings/recommendations are based on a longer distance. Maybe 10 ft or 100 ft. In short distances, it's less of a problem.