Hole Rivets for Two Thin Metal Plates?

[rg12]

Am new to riveting and have two pieces of 0.8mm thick copper strips that are 10mm wide and have holes in them that are 3mm wide.
I would like to put them on top of each other and run a rivet through two aligned holes.

I need the most flush rivet (from both sides) so I thought of the hole rivet/blind rivet.
All I found on eBay is those hole rivets for leather but I don't think they are strong enough especially when you see the tool provided which is a lame small plier.

Would appreciate any help directing me towards the right rivet for the job and the right tool.

 

[marty]

Lots of different types of rivets. Take a look around here:
https://www.mcmaster.com/rivets/rivets/

If ya worry about different metals reacting with each other? Use copper rivets. Here's some:
https://www.mcmaster.com/rivets/rivets/copper-domed-head-solid-rivets/

Copper rivets are electrically conductive, nonmagnetic, and have good corrosion resistance.

Installation of solid rivets requires access to both sides of the material as well as a hammer or a solid rivet tool. To achieve the most consistent results and a professional appearance, we recommend using a riveting air hammer with a rivet setter that matches the rivet's head style, and a bucking bar.

I would try a hammer first as a test to see how it works. Anvil or block of steel is good for pounding on.

Over on this side of the ocean. We measure rivets with inches. My rivet gun looks something like this:

Squeeze with one hand. Careful not to pinch your other hand when the rivet tool goes pop. Ya only do that once.

 

[rg12]

Lots of different types of rivets. Take a look around here:
https://www.mcmaster.com/rivets/rivets/

If ya worry about different metals reacting with each other? Use copper rivets. Here's some:
https://www.mcmaster.com/rivets/rivets/copper-domed-head-solid-rivets/

Copper rivets are electrically conductive, nonmagnetic, and have good corrosion resistance.

Installation of solid rivets requires access to both sides of the material as well as a hammer or a solid rivet tool. To achieve the most consistent results and a professional appearance, we recommend using a riveting air hammer with a rivet setter that matches the rivet's head style, and a bucking bar.

I would try a hammer first as a test to see how it works. Anvil or block of steel is good for pounding on.

Over on this side of the ocean. We measure rivets with inches. My rivet gun looks something like this:

Squeeze with one hand. Careful not to pinch your other hand when the rivet tool goes pop. Ya only do that once.

Thanks mate, will go with brass since it might be stiffer than copper and consists of copper so it can't react to it.

Can you tell me with hollow/hole rivets how do I figure the length I need?
If the material is 1.75mm thick, how much longer than the total thickness of both materials to be attached I need the rivet to be?
I see an option on aliexpress for 3mm, 4mm...

 

[marty]

Buy a six pack of beer. Drink all the beer. Put a paper or plastic cup in each of the 6 empty spaces of the cardboard six pack holder. Fill each cup with different size rivets. Try different rivets to see which ones work best.

Best to not drink all 6 bottles of beer in one day.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Best to not drink all 6 bottles of beer in one day

Oh no...NOW you tell me (*burp)

 

[amberwolf]

There are also binding bolts/barrels (Sometimes called "sex bolts")
https://www.mcmaster.com/screws/binding-barrels-and-screws/brass-low-profile-binding-barrels-and-screws/
which work like rivets to clamp things together, but are removable without drilling if necessary, and just go together like bolts, so no tools needed other than ones you already have.

The heads on each end are low-profile and rounded, so may be about as smooth as you can get, possibly smoother than rivets depending on your technique and the style used.

If you can't find ones short enough for your need, you may be able to file the closest one down, and loctite it if necessary.

Lots of styles
https://www.google.com/search?q=Brass+Low-Profile+Binding+Barrels+and+Screws&tbm=isch

I've used some that have ridges on the barrel to tamp into the hole in your material, so that grabs and holds, and the barrel is threaded all the way thru with a hole at both ends, so the bolt can simply continue all the way thru, and then you can cut it off if necessary.

 

[rg12]

The barrel thing won't suite me as they aren't short enough and filing is not an option as it's something that I will have too many of those to do on a regular basis.
I guess I will try a few different sizes of rivets.
Thanks alot

 

[Stealth_Chopper]

. .

 

[amberwolf]

FWIW, solder is usually the worst (short of adhesives) way to bond stuff together, because it usually isn't as strong as a crimped (or bolted) connection, and has higher resistance, too.

 

[Balmorhea]

FWIW, solder is usually the worst (short of adhesives) way to bond stuff together, because it usually isn't as strong as a crimped (or bolted) connection, and has higher resistance, too.

Where solder wins is in having a much larger wetted area than the area making firm contact in a typical mechanical joint. You have to crimp or bolt hard enough to flow the metal, to get more than isolated points of contact.

 

[Stealth_Chopper]

Strips

FWIW, solder is usually the worst (short of adhesives) way to bond stuff together, because it usually isn't as strong as a crimped (or bolted) connection, and has higher resistance, too.

Where solder wins is in having a much larger wetted area than the area making firm contact in a typical mechanical joint. You have to crimp or bolt hard enough to flow the metal, to get more than isolated points of contact.

 

[markz]

Hot water pipes are not moving, no stress on the joints.

Crimping is a more secure method for wires, wires move. Solder can degrade and break and have hidden deformities. More user error can occur with soldering.

Crimping is easier and faster if you have the proper tool, its faster. The tools can be expensive.

Soldering takes longer to heat up the metal, then apply the solder, then let cool down.
It take a huge amount of heat and time to heat up large gauge wires. Can deform the wire insulation, can preshrink heat shrink so its un-usuable. Tight areas especially.



https://monroeengineering.com/blog/crimping-vs-soldering-cable-connectors-which-is-best/

American Boat & Yacht Council Standards exclude solder as the sole means of electrical connection for wire terminations.

A crimped spade terminal actually creates a metal-metal colloidal bond at the surface between the wire and the terminal, and if done right, no gas remains between the surfaces. This ensures longevity and safety, making this the preferred mechanism in industrial implementations.

 

[Hillhater]

Hot water pipes are not moving, no stress on the joints.

Hot water pipes suffer continual cyclic stress due to the repeated expansion and contraction from heating and cooling which can generate large mechanical forces.

A crimped spade terminal ....... if done right, no gas remains between the surfaces. .....

I favor crimped wire terminals....mainly because my soldering is inconsistent !....and recognise the various advantages crimping has.
...but that last point is utter bollocks when referring to terminals on multistrand wire

 

[Drunkskunk]

An ideal solder job is superior in strength and conductivity to an ideal crimp job, However you can't get 100% consistent solder connections, and you can't properly field inspect a solder connection for fatigue and corrosion. That's why the military and many industries choose crimped connections. The connection might be less perfect, but it's more consistent and involves less man hours to inspect and maintain.

A crimped connection made in air will have a thin oxide layer and be slightly resistivity. a silver or gold soldered connection will form a layer that is slightly more conductive than the base metals. Also, If you're using lead/tin solder, there is a good chance that the lead film will be less resistive than the crimped connection, by eliminating the oxide layer and having a larger surface area.

Personally, I crimp my spade and ring terminals, then solder them.

As for rivets, for such a thin piece, the flushest fit is going to be a solid rivet hammered flat. Brass would look good, but it's harder than copper, so it would be harder to get it to seat properly in that thin of a strip without deforming the copper bad enough to enlarge the hole and tear the strip.
you could try brass eyelet fittings, but they won't be as strong or as flush.

have you considered a structural epoxy? it would be stronger than any rivet job.

 

[DogDipstick]

Am new to riveting and have two pieces of 0.8mm thick copper strips that are 10mm wide and have holes in them that are 3mm wide.



Would appreciate any help directing me towards the right rivet for the job and the right tool.

I have alot of real experience with fasteners. Know someone who wrote the book. I'll ask him today if there is anything that a designer would want to know n the mechanical fastening of the two pc. copper.

So: Material: Copper
Dimension: 1.6mm x 3mm (0.062 x 0.12)"
Rivet size: Easy peasy. 3/16 x 1/8. Buy Rivets, Aluminum, 3/16" x 1/8" Inch, (6-2), Gap (.06 - .12)" Blind.

Look at the temperatures you are going to see ( extremes, +/-) and the atmosphere you will be in. You do not want to stress the fastener on repeated hot/cold cycles. Test the connection to destruction. 0.8mm is pretty thick.

I also use a corrosion inhibitor cause well, tabs disintegrate with error. Quickly.

Rivets > solder and or bolts, for many reasons here. I use pure aluminum rivets. Some copper and aluminum rivets have steel shanks and that is not something you want if building with high Noble, and other dissimilar, metals.

I use this to (tool) rivet my cells together. Proven to 2000A+. I made a two tooth punch to Arbor press the two holes at once and regular.. and use 24oo# of force to smash the rivet and copper sandwich into as tight an assy as I want. The arbor press operation ensures a good swage. Final dimension is about 4mm including : two cell tabs, and two layers of copper ( 18Oz). O can smash the rivets into oblivion if I want to: but I just try to get consistency and repeatability.

THIZS is my rivet gun. https://amtechdiy.com/product/heavy-duty-rivet-gun/. It is nice cause it catches the snapped pin... and you do not want a wayward pin flying around the shop with sensitive electronics in play.

"Rivet diameters are commonly measured in ​1⁄32-inch increments[14] and their lengths in ​1⁄16-inch increments, expressed as "dash numbers" at the end of the rivet identification number. A "dash 3 dash 4" (XXXXXX-3-4) designation indicates a ​3⁄32-inch diameter and ​4⁄16-inch (or ​1⁄4-inch) length. Some rivets lengths are also available in half sizes, and have a dash number such as –3.5 (​7⁄32 inch) to indicate they are half-size. The letters and digits in a rivet's identification number that precede its dash numbers indicate the specification under which the rivet was manufactured and the head style. On many rivets, a size in 32nds may be stamped on the rivet head. Other makings on the rivet head, such as small raised or depressed dimples or small raised bars indicate the rivet's alloy.

To become a proper fastener, a rivet should be placed in hole ideally 4–6 thousandths of an inch larger in diameter. This allows the rivet to be easily and fully inserted, then setting allows the rivet to expand, tightly filling the gap and maximizing strength. "

 

[Hillhater]

THIZS is my rivet gun. https://amtechdiy.com/product/heavy-duty-rivet-gun/. It is nice cause it catches the snapped pin... and you do not want a wayward pin flying around the shop with sensitive electronics in play.....

Well, it catches MOST of the pin. !
There is still the lower part of the pin retained in the rivet ...hopefully
Sometimes those other parts of the pin can fall out later..that can be bad news !
Ideally you should be using solid rivets...not so easy , but safer.

 

[DogDipstick]

Ideally you should be using solid rivets...not so easy , but safer.

Yes I know I concluded that also; but: without a good proper designed foolproof tooling, the power to swage a good solid copper countersunk rivet reliably: is to much for me, and the aluminum is more reliable.. but yea. great minds think alike. Lol. I thought about anealing the rivets, but these (roofing) rivets are very hard and made for expensive bulky tools. ( 'cept the single copper blind pop rivet: that is a typical Home Depot rivet).

There is not alot of shear: some, but not alot. More tension. Aluminum has worked fine for me, you know what we are doing with them: aluminum and copper tabs. Definitely stronger then the tabs alone ( soldered, I cannot do reliably en masse) and will tear tab before the copper buss de laminates or something.

 

[marty]

Nut and bolt. Cut the bolt off flush with the nut. Then peen so it don't come loose. Is peen the right word for this?
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/379982.html?1376145501

Once you have them tight, peen them. Put the point of a punch between the nut and the end of the bolt and whack the punch with a hammer. The idea is to lock them in place so they don't work loose.

Them screws on receptacles, are they brass? Go get the magnet.

Roberston screwdriver, also known as a square screwdriver usually fits these screws.

In a past life we would pee on the steel nuts and bolts. Salt in the piss would cause the steel to rust. Rust would prevent nuts from coming loose.

 

[DogDipstick]

Am new to riveting and
Would appreciate any help directing me towards the right rivet for the job and the right tool.

Is it bad that I seriously considered building batteries with this style of rivet?

Lol.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20-pcs-con...nap-fastener-3-8-studs-DOT-USA-M/133233907331

:wink: