Honda electric snowmobile concept
- Thread starter Arlo1
- Start date
Hugues
1 kW
cool.
This design already exists as gas engine.
To have real fun in the snow you probably needs something like 30 kw.
So if they are going to place the battery pack (make it LiPo) so high in the seat, the center of gravity will be quite high and it won't handle that well i guess....
just my two cents...
This design already exists as gas engine.
To have real fun in the snow you probably needs something like 30 kw.
So if they are going to place the battery pack (make it LiPo) so high in the seat, the center of gravity will be quite high and it won't handle that well i guess....
just my two cents...
This is definitely an area where electric does not shine. Not only are the batteries at a major disadvantage from being in the cold, but you also need a TON of continuous power for anyone to care. The advantages are almost nonexistent, since current solutions work great. With ample power and a CVT, the engine is almost never out of the power band. The few sleds I rode all make enough power to lift the skis or spin the track, right off the line. Beyond that it only revs more, making more power.
This stuff is generally a snoozefest below 100HP. 150-200 is a bit more fun. In electric, thats AWFULLY hard to replicate for any length of time.
This stuff is generally a snoozefest below 100HP. 150-200 is a bit more fun. In electric, thats AWFULLY hard to replicate for any length of time.
I work on sleds for a living in the winter and its were i started in my industry. I have worked on sleds with well over 300hp Dyno proven! The one thing lacking is torque and when you remove the need for a heavy CVT and put a lighter motor in the power needs drop drasticaly! The power to weight ratio thing is why bombardier does so well. Most the sleds I work on people spend 15-40k on to ride a couple weekends a year in the mountains!ZOMGVTEK said:
motorino magnet
100 W
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- Nov 29, 2011
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Canadian(Harper) Government is looking for some and they are prepared to pay BIG bucks to sneak up on ....
Multi- millions available to the winner.RCMP and military want them real quick for some reason...
Multi- millions available to the winner.RCMP and military want them real quick for some reason...
Arlo1 said:
That makes sense, but a ton of battery capacity is going to be fairly heavy. High power recreational stuff like this isn't really where electric shines. It will probably be slower than 'fast' stock sleds, have less range, and be tricky to charge at high power in the middle of nowhere. Even if you can find an outlet, its going to be limited to 1,500W charging. With 20-40kW on board, thats really pathetic.
The fastest sled I was on was a modified 00 Yamaha SRX. Something like 200HP at the track from what I hear. It was about as fast as you would want a sled to be, until it hits about 80 and starts slowing down. It would easily lift the skis at 60 if you snap the throttle. That kind of power is tricky right now with electric, especially on a smaller platform like that.
Lock
100 MW
Arlo1 said:
Canadian gov put out a request for tender for hybrids back in August. One news report here:
"Canadian military developing stealth snowmobile"
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStorie...ilitary-developing-stealth-snowmobile-110821/
Some backup from the MERX site:
http://milnewsca.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/sow-snowmobiles-pw-edm-610-8984-u000-e.pdf
I expect EVen our civil servants have figured out that a straight EV snowmobile wouldn't "cut it" with todaze tech...
L0cK
gestalt
10 kW
It does seem to be a step ever so slightly in the right direction though. What electrics need to be whether it is a bicycle, motorcycle or car is designed completely differently. An electric snowmobile, much like a electric motorcycle need go be lightened up and designed around small high power motors and light high discharge batteries if they are going to be fun in the first place, range be damned for now. I mean, look at Lukes bike, the power to weight ratio on that thing is insane. And from what little I know about snowmobiles they use things like rotax engines, those two stroke jobs that are often used in ultralights as well. There was that guy that built the twin joby and lipo powered ultralight replacing the stock ICE and it worked out great. Then the samba, an electric jet ski that looked worlds apart from a traditional one. The maneuverability and tricks they could do with it were amazing.
What is needed for a esnowmobile for one is to redesign the rear track system to lose some serious weight because I hefted on once and they are some heavy sob's. I really liked the track setup on that concept electric "motorcycle" that used one continuous track was great. each of the segments of the track were articulated to provide steering and they were replaceable individually. If you made the frame to work with a high KW brushless motor and a bitchin lipo pack you could have a nimble snowmobile you could do things on that could never be done on a ICE rig.
Design, design, design.
What is needed for a esnowmobile for one is to redesign the rear track system to lose some serious weight because I hefted on once and they are some heavy sob's. I really liked the track setup on that concept electric "motorcycle" that used one continuous track was great. each of the segments of the track were articulated to provide steering and they were replaceable individually. If you made the frame to work with a high KW brushless motor and a bitchin lipo pack you could have a nimble snowmobile you could do things on that could never be done on a ICE rig.
Design, design, design.
I think it would need battery heaters. This would keep your ass warm for a while too.
Hunters would like the silence and lack of exhaust :wink:
Human hunters?
Hunters would like the silence and lack of exhaust :wink:
Human hunters?
gestalt
10 kW
fechter said:
Yeah, get ready for that one. It's called "hunting long pig". I know, I know, I'm crazy. But I think there is a possibility of a zombie apocalypse but it's really going to be just hungry people, and they are going to be like the fast zombies from 28 days later.
Ypedal
100 TW
I'm with Zomg on this one, nice concept, but reality is a bitch....
I tested a 2009 bombardier http://ypedal.com/Skidoo/Index.htm last year ( the guy is getting a 2012, just got it last week ) ... insane..
to come close to this type of weight/performance with batteries, in the cold, is not going to be easy.
If all you need is a machine capable of mid 90's touring, mellow hauler, maaaabe...
I tested a 2009 bombardier http://ypedal.com/Skidoo/Index.htm last year ( the guy is getting a 2012, just got it last week ) ... insane..
to come close to this type of weight/performance with batteries, in the cold, is not going to be easy.
If all you need is a machine capable of mid 90's touring, mellow hauler, maaaabe...
Gordo
100 kW
This is not a HONDA concept at all, but a 2 year old student wet dream;
http://www.amsnow.com/en/News/Cool%20News%20Archive/2010/11/Honda%20Concept%20Snowmobile.aspx
"Power is strictly from 22 lithium ion battery packs that can be charged from the side and used cartridges that can be ejected from the front of the line of packs with new cartridges inserted easily under the seat. The 96-volt motor has a power output of 23 bhp, but two new 140-volt motors could offer more than 75 bhp and a 6.6 kw charge would last six hours, Wyeth says. "
Wow, what a concept
Series cartridges that drain the first one in the string 
Six hours doing what?
http://www.amsnow.com/en/News/Cool%20News%20Archive/2010/11/Honda%20Concept%20Snowmobile.aspx
"Power is strictly from 22 lithium ion battery packs that can be charged from the side and used cartridges that can be ejected from the front of the line of packs with new cartridges inserted easily under the seat. The 96-volt motor has a power output of 23 bhp, but two new 140-volt motors could offer more than 75 bhp and a 6.6 kw charge would last six hours, Wyeth says. "
Wow, what a concept
Series cartridges that drain the first one in the string Six hours doing what?
There is no way in hell you will see 200HP at the track without a turbo on a SRX. The rule is almost 1/2 your hp is lost through the CVT and track drag etc!!! SO that SRX would have had to be close to 400hp! I worked at the only proper chassis dyno in Canada (1 of 4 in the world) for 2 years in the evenings helping a buddy out in my spare time and with a HO800 skidoo with ~140-150 hp at the motor on a stock sled you would see 70-80hp at the track and that was a high number. We put together some good numbers for University of Alberta and some other cool things like a few turbo RX1s and Even a couple supercharged rx1 The coolest was probably a highly modified gsxr 600 supercharged and shoved into a sled chassis. I also got to help when a couple top secret dudes form BP fuels came and tested some additives for gasoline seeing different blends change power output and economy by >20%ZOMGVTEK said:
The thing is if the weight could be kept down by enough and power strait to the track kept up as well as the increased torque this could really have potential. As for batteries they could have a charger and keep a bunch extra charged up in the trailer or truck... Most the dudes I know in the industry would gladly drop a couple g for extra batteries to just change them all at home then be good for the weekend just switch them out at the truck or hotel room! They are just weekend warriors
Hillhater
100 TW
Arlo1 said:
But... Even a "modest" 50kw machine would need a substantial ( ? 10kWhr ?) pack to run for even a short time ( 15 mins) at high power.
That 10kWhr pack would weigh 60+ kg and cost $4k +.... even using HK lipo !...
.. and i dont think many would be happy with 15mins between 60kg pack changes.
..and recharging .. ??
These things dont run at full power for 15 minutes a time. They do a hill climb then cost down. Look at the gas tank sizes... Last I looked they were about 10gal of fuel. Not much more then a sport bike for a full day of riding!Hillhater said:Arlo1 said:
But... Even a "modest" 50kw machine would need a substantial ( ? 10kWhr ?) pack to run for even a short time ( 15 mins) at high power.
That 10kWhr pack would weigh 60+ kg and cost $4k +.... even using HK lipo !...
.. and i dont think many would be happy with 15mins between 60kg pack changes.
..and recharging .. ??
Lock
100 MW
...so, what, at 36.6 kWh/US gal... a 366kW "pack" if 10gal? What's a "full day"? Eight hours?Arlo1 said:
lock
Ypedal
100 TW
Ride it like you stole it and 10 gal will not deliver an 8 hr day !!..
edit: random google search:
http://corp.brp.com/en-us/company/news/brps-2011-ski-doo-snowmobile-line-more-market-shaping-fuel-efficient-engine
edit: random google search:
http://corp.brp.com/en-us/company/news/brps-2011-ski-doo-snowmobile-line-more-market-shaping-fuel-efficient-engine
Dude most people only put on ~100 k in a killer day of playing in the back country. Where they ride around here is ride up a 15km trail then play in powder and every body take turns or various hill climbs. Even though you spend a lot of time sitting around you are absolutly wiped after a day!! I dont think I have been on a ride in the mountains that was over 150km in a day and that was from 8am till 10pm!!! with not to many brakes just lots of getting stuck in the deepest poweder I have ever seen and the km were mesured by track revalutions!Ypedal said:
Lock
100 MW
`Kay, so best? case at 36.6 kWh/US gal good for 19miles, then almost 2kWh/mile... (Maybe folks like BRP provide "optimistic" fuel consumption numbers the way the China ebike folks do?)
Ypedal
100 TW
Hmm.. different areas i suppose.. out here ( when we get a real winter... so far this season is just weird... mid jan and no snow in moncton .. we normally have a few feet by now.. ) trails are like open highways you can line it up and run as fast as you dare for hours from city to city..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9kRspJTekM
[youtube]Z9kRspJTekM[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9kRspJTekM
[youtube]Z9kRspJTekM[/youtube]
Hillhater
100 TW
:lol: ..OK so you will "pussy" around on that 50kW m/c ( sport riding ??) and stretch 30 mins out of that battery.Arlo1 said:
how far from you truck full of charged $4k packs will you go, and how many $4k packs will you take for a days .."pussying" around conserving power and trying not to be 1/2 a mile from your "battery station" when the power dies ??
.. I suspect pushing a sled in soft snow is not too easy !
...but then again you could just hike that mile to the truck and back carrying another 60+ kg pack to get going !!
Im just trying to remember when I was out with one of the bombardier engineers on a ride in revelstoke, I seem to remember coming back to the truck at the end of the day and putting 28$ of gas in and that was premium at 99cents a litre. So about 28 litres 28/4.54= 6.16 gallons. It was not any sort of pussy footing around I was droping 10+ foot cornuses and hitting some pretty decent jumps. That was a day from 8am-~4pm so I realy think you guys are over estimating this all. I think we need to look at what a motorcycle uses for x amout of distance on x amount of fuel and then compare the total kw that zero bike will have for a simular bike and then compare gallons of gas to kwh. I do understand a sled uses a lot of energy at times but its not as bad as you guys think.Hillhater said:
Lock
100 MW
I found other references to the E-TEC engine Ypedal mentioned on a snowmobile forum, reported as getting 19-20mpg, and 24mpg if driven "gently"... all described as pretty "amazing" ie many sleds get worse mileage. EVen if the electric sled could be lightened up etc to get 25mpg that'd still be maybe 1.5kWh/mile. Gordo found out this was just a student project but in the linked article the "design brief" said "...designed for young motocross-style riders that want to “go big,” ". Maybe a fun lighter-weight snow machine could be designed for closed course/resort scenarios with convenient pack swapping... eg pack only good for a couple of miles agressive travel between swaps.
