Hotrodding 750W 48V hub motor

briogio

100 W
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
240
Location
Cookstown, Ontario, Canada.
Hi I have a spare 16", 750 watt, 48 volt scooter hub motor and I want to hotrod it with better power wires, bigger battery 60 V? 72V? I'll machine air holes in the side covers. I'ld appreciate any advice I don't want to make it too fragile.
Thanks
 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001447PEK/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001447PEK&linkCode=as2&tag=xbnijgbr-20&linkId=7J5XYDDFPKYMU5OS Spray the inside of the motor with this.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=68373 Use this or something similar to improve air flow through the motor.

I know nothing about what you are using this motor on, but you'd want to be sure the dropouts are able to handle the power. I'd weld on a pair of doctorbass torque arms if you weren't very confident about your current setup. http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=29129

You might consider adding a thermistor and using something like a cycle analyst version 3 or an adaptto to automatically cut motor power in case of over heating occurring within the motor.

If what you are putting this motor on doesn't have full suspension and wide tires I'd change that.

Chances are this will put you well into electric motorcycle territory. Most cops probably won't care, but I'd look into your local laws, you might need registration, insurance and things like that.
 
If it's anything like mine...you'll be a happy camper. To get the rpm's you'll prob want, I'd be thinking 72v. KIMG0511.jpg
I've been running this one off of an Extreme 600 at 72v/ 3000ish watts for about 8000 miles, no mods to the wires or cooling. The high rpm and the heat sink effect of the cast wheel keeps the heat in check nicely. The built in brake made it easy too. Don't know about yours, but mine has an oversize axle that took some mods to the dropouts to fit.
 
Thanks for the replies. I think I will go to 72 Volt, I want to upgrade the wires through the hub because it blew the yellow wire from rubbing on the inside of the cover, I'll go with 12 gauge silicon coated high voltage wires. Since I have to change my controller anyway I was thinking of getting rid of the 5 skinny wires and Halls sensors and going with a sensor less controller. Is that a good idea or bad?
 
Not a lot of experience with sensorless but if you get a dual mode controller you could try it and see if you like it before totally ditching the hall wires.
 
Thanks Voltron,
I've got a 750W 48V cast aluminum wheel with a disc brake. That's good to know that you've gone to 72V with stock wiring, I want to upgrade my wiring anyway but I was thinking to remove the 5 hall wires to give me more room in the axle for bigger power wires, but maybe that's just overkill. Does anyone know how the Hall sensored controllers behave differently from the sensorless?
 

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If you are operating on flat ground, increasing the volts 50% should not significantly increase the motor heat (unless the higher speeds that the higher voltage will provide are too much of a load on that size of motor). Higher amps are the main reason you get more heat in the motor/controller. But...even if you are not increasing the amps, you never need to apologize for going to fatter wires.
 
I was going to ask this in separate post but since you've answered me and your a knowledgable guy, is it possible at the flick of a switch to go from 48v to 96v, series to parallel with 2 48v batteries? I realize I'ld have to change the controller. Also I'm not really sure how or what increasing amps does. I will be going for mondo venting on this cast aluminum wheel, and 10g wiring to axle then 12g through it.
 
Right off the top of my head, you'd have to use two separate controllers to switch between 48V / 96V. There are other land mines you might step on in that particular field, but I don't have any experience with that.

A long time ago, when all that was readily available was low-current batteries, there was a lot of discussion about delta/wye switching. Normally the six wires coming from the three groups of motor-phases are configured inside the motor housing, and then only three wires are run out the small ID of the hollow axle (either delta or wye, never both). If you are using a non-hub, it would be easy to experiment with separating the internal terminations (time-consuming, but not difficult). Then, you could solder thick wires onto the phase-group terminations, and run all six wires to the outside of the motor.

Delta-terminated phases will run faster for a given voltage, and wye is slower, but...it draws fewer amps at lower RPMs, so it would be easier on controllers, plus easier on a low-amp battery pack. I seem to remember that wye also has less inductance (?), so its easier on RC controllers, also small E-bike controllers. The Delta/wye speed-per-volt ratio was somewhere around 1.7:1, which would be a much more useful ratio (compared to 2:1 between 96V / 48V), and easier to achieve than voltage doubling (one controller, one system voltage).

Just a theory at this point, never had any need to try it out. I'm sure there would be unexpected problems arising...

Increasing the amps to the motor will make the motor and controller briefly hotter, but if the motor is big enough to accelerate up near its top-speed, it will have time to cool off at low amps...in this scenario, more amps will improve how hard the motor accelerates (fast acceleration as opposed to slow acceleration)
 
Thanks for the answer Spinning Magnets, I'll have to read it a few times to understand it! But bottom line is it sounds pretty hazardous, I think I'll just go to 72v, can I just add a 24v battery to my 48v in parallel, of the same type. Or do I need to get a specific 72v battery?
 
You would want them in series, not parallel..you already have an existing battery so it changes things, but I went 2 36v batteries in series, that way I can use 2 standard 36v chargers that are easy to get. You can use different chemistries, during finding out what voltage I liked I had a crazy half lead half lithium pack of varying voltages.. it ran, but with them draining at different rates and charging at different speeds it was a pita. They do make controllers that have a 48v/60v/72v switch on the outside of the case, but haven't seen 48v/96v. Maybe 2 48v controllers slaved to one throttle? You would need them tuned pretty identically....that just an idea that I have no knowlege of the complications of, fyi. Getting into that 96v range is getting to where the sparks are really big, and you better have it strapped to a chassis you would feel safe on at high speed. You also might run into the switching speed of the controller with the high RPMs of the small wheel, i.e. the controller might not be able to switch the fields fast enough to take advantage of the higher volts.
 
Dont know if you're planning on running it one the scooter in the picture.. but not sure tha'ts going to be safe at the 45ish you should be going when you're done! You're going to need reverse wheelie bars out front if you have to stop quickly :)


edit.... and that's coming from somebody that had the back wheel 3 feet in the air for 20 foot when a car popped out. Thankfully we both stopped right as my front wheel touched her bumper... I was still balanced on the front wheel with one foot on her hood pushing back...prob would have flipped right into the windshield otherwise.. :roll:
 
Wow that's quite the story Voltron! Yes I agree, it's already kinda scary at 20 mph! I've got plans to make a bolt-on rear section to make my wheelbase longer and the scooter more stable. I'ld like to put a mountain board truck so it can lean and steer, but I've since found out that I have to have 2 trucks to do that. I do REALLY want to lean though, almost as much as my need for speed!
 
And yeah...I was so high up I was l looking down into her windshield and couldn't see her face....then the back came down and we were eye level...It was a weird moment...lol
 
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