ebike4healthandfitness
100 kW
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How many volts do you run on your daily driver ebike, emoped or eBSM?
BSM is an acronym for "Bicycle shaped motorcycle".
BSM is an acronym for "Bicycle shaped motorcycle".
How many volts do you run on your daily driver ebike, emoped or eBSM?
- Thread starter ebike4healthandfitness
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ebike4healthandfitness
100 kW
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Me: 48 volts
spinningmagnets
100 TW
Two ebikes, both 52V
MadRhino
100 GW
BSM does suggest a motorcycle that is shaped to bicycle appearance. We don’t build this here. We build fully functional bicycles with all bicycle components, and the only thing they have in common with (some) motorcycles is performance. What defines motorcycles is not performance. It is a matter of frames and components, mostly size and weight of them.
Voltage is irrelevant. Only speed and/or power are valuable comparison values. Some may believe higher voltage is a performance factor for ebikes, but in fact it is not practical to build interesting performance on a bicycle with high voltage because of controllers size and weight. Even high performance e-motorcycles are not built high voltage, because size and weight does matter. High voltage is typical of cars because they have room/size for this. Ebikes and e-motorcycles are typically built within the range of 36-84v nominal voltage. Very few are out of this range, and often bad engineering when they are.
Voltage is irrelevant. Only speed and/or power are valuable comparison values. Some may believe higher voltage is a performance factor for ebikes, but in fact it is not practical to build interesting performance on a bicycle with high voltage because of controllers size and weight. Even high performance e-motorcycles are not built high voltage, because size and weight does matter. High voltage is typical of cars because they have room/size for this. Ebikes and e-motorcycles are typically built within the range of 36-84v nominal voltage. Very few are out of this range, and often bad engineering when they are.
ebike4healthandfitness
100 kW
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MadRhino said:
The department of motor vehicles for most (if not all) states holds a different opinion.
ebike4healthandfitness
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MadRhino said:
1. Grin phaserunner is a small controller and yet it allows up to 21s for voltage.
2. Harley Davidson and Zero motorcycles are over 100v nominal.
Chalo
100 TW
48V/13S and 44V/12S respectively.
MadRhino
100 GW
ebike4healthandfitness said:
So you mean 100v is high voltage?
Most EV out there are 300 to 400v. 21s is typical of bikes, a tad above 100v is still low voltage in electric vehicles technology. Bikes just don’t have the room for high voltage system design. It would be limiting power. It is very big and heavy to supply a bike with a 72v 40Ah battery already, and battery technology is not going to improve density anytime soon, to make it practical to build a bike with comparable voltage as 4 wheelers.
dogman dan
1 PW
My commuters started out with 36v, which was quite adequate, but the next battery I bought was a 48v ping lifepo4. Charging to 60v, it would be called 52v these days. 52v, 14s became my preference for many years after that.
48v did better on the big hill to home, I live 1000 vertical feet above the town in the valley. For me, the big hill used less power to get up on 52v since I could avoid bogging down in less efficient 36v rpm on the long 6% grade. I never much used the 30 mph capability on the daily travel. In the bike lanes, I found 30 mph too stressful. I know that car will pass me and turn right into the parking lot. At 30 mph, hard to stop in time. So I generally ran 20 mph in bike lanes, and could easily avoid actual contact with that ass in the car. Some of this is why I now keep up with traffic in the driving lane, on a gas motorcycle. Honestly, I have a ton less close calls now.
But things would be much different for me, if I did not live so far from the city center. In the center, lots of safe alternate routes. Less used streets, MUP's, and back alleys. Anything but a bike lane. The burbs forced me into unsafe routes, despite the bike lane. The bike lane not exactly safe.
Off road, I liked 72v a lot better for its performance on very steep hills. But that voltage tended to require more hassle to charge, or just more expensive chargers. I did a lot of 72v charging using two 8s RC chargers.
48v did better on the big hill to home, I live 1000 vertical feet above the town in the valley. For me, the big hill used less power to get up on 52v since I could avoid bogging down in less efficient 36v rpm on the long 6% grade. I never much used the 30 mph capability on the daily travel. In the bike lanes, I found 30 mph too stressful. I know that car will pass me and turn right into the parking lot. At 30 mph, hard to stop in time. So I generally ran 20 mph in bike lanes, and could easily avoid actual contact with that ass in the car. Some of this is why I now keep up with traffic in the driving lane, on a gas motorcycle. Honestly, I have a ton less close calls now.
But things would be much different for me, if I did not live so far from the city center. In the center, lots of safe alternate routes. Less used streets, MUP's, and back alleys. Anything but a bike lane. The burbs forced me into unsafe routes, despite the bike lane. The bike lane not exactly safe.
Off road, I liked 72v a lot better for its performance on very steep hills. But that voltage tended to require more hassle to charge, or just more expensive chargers. I did a lot of 72v charging using two 8s RC chargers.
DogDipstick
100 kW
Got one bike, 52v. 14s. Mid. 750wH~
Got one 72v. 20s. Hub. 1850wH
Building a trike @ 14s. Mid. 1300wH.
Building one @ 96v. 24s. Mid. 2400wh.
Building one at 120Vn. 32s. Hub. Gonna try to fit 3,000wH. Might do 30s, for simplicity and interchangeable packs interchangeable from my 20s, that which is (2x)(10s). So I dont have to build so many packs.
Got one 72v. 20s. Hub. 1850wH
Building a trike @ 14s. Mid. 1300wH.
Building one @ 96v. 24s. Mid. 2400wh.
Building one at 120Vn. 32s. Hub. Gonna try to fit 3,000wH. Might do 30s, for simplicity and interchangeable packs interchangeable from my 20s, that which is (2x)(10s). So I dont have to build so many packs.
999zip999
100 TW
72v 6p 20s triangle Samsung 40t 24ah only get 17ah Battery motor works bulid it with BT bms mxus 3,000 4t v3 lyen 18fet 40amps need to reprogram for be 65a ?
72v 8ah spaim08 cell 20s get 7.5ah 30amp controller 1,500 35mm dd with holes and fins.
N.E.S.E 14s 8p BAK 2,500 25amp cell $2.45 Just build had to take the wrapper to fit for cyc pro 1 gen 3 middrive asi bt 855 controller need to figure out the complex thing.
An A123 was 24s not bms just now 20s bad cells 1480 cycles 9plus years 40,000 miles not hooked up yet again.
72v 8ah spaim08 cell 20s get 7.5ah 30amp controller 1,500 35mm dd with holes and fins.
N.E.S.E 14s 8p BAK 2,500 25amp cell $2.45 Just build had to take the wrapper to fit for cyc pro 1 gen 3 middrive asi bt 855 controller need to figure out the complex thing.
An A123 was 24s not bms just now 20s bad cells 1480 cycles 9plus years 40,000 miles not hooked up yet again.
motomech
10 MW
For my geared hub motor systems powered by LiPoly, I've settled on 14S, which makes a nominal 51 Volt pack and the Volts value does matter.
It matters because this range is the highest one can go without paying much attention to:
1) Wire gauge, easy to work with 12 and 14 awg can be used.
2) Cheap and easy to use low capacity connectors like 6 m/m bullets can be used with no anti-spark consideration.
3) Budget controllers can be used without concern of blowing capacitors.
4) If a mistake is made, there is no perm. damage to one's fingers and eyesight
Con:
1) Not much available in the way of 7S LiPoly bricks. I make my own.
More important than the ultimate Volts value settled on, is matching the motor speed range to achieve the desired top speed.
I am most comfortable in the mid 20's MPH range and that means for a bike w/ 26" whl.s, motor speeds in the 240 RPM to 260RPM rated @ 36 Volts.
IMO, matching these values, whl. size, motor speed and system Voltage is key to building a happy rider/ebike relationship.
It matters because this range is the highest one can go without paying much attention to:
1) Wire gauge, easy to work with 12 and 14 awg can be used.
2) Cheap and easy to use low capacity connectors like 6 m/m bullets can be used with no anti-spark consideration.
3) Budget controllers can be used without concern of blowing capacitors.
4) If a mistake is made, there is no perm. damage to one's fingers and eyesight
Con:
1) Not much available in the way of 7S LiPoly bricks. I make my own.
More important than the ultimate Volts value settled on, is matching the motor speed range to achieve the desired top speed.
I am most comfortable in the mid 20's MPH range and that means for a bike w/ 26" whl.s, motor speeds in the 240 RPM to 260RPM rated @ 36 Volts.
IMO, matching these values, whl. size, motor speed and system Voltage is key to building a happy rider/ebike relationship.
JackFlorey
100 kW
48V (13S) for most of them. 60V (15S) for my older son's bike.ebike4healthandfitness said:
docw009
10 MW
I owned mostly 10S batteries in DIY ebikes, which means not constrained by size. With battery technology improving, and given an ability to do spot welding, I find that as those 10S packs got old, I can fit a 13S-3P 12.6AH pack in the same place I had a 10S-4P 10AH pack, or go up to a 13S-4P and 5P.
Also, some ebikes I converted that I never liked because they were heavy, aren't just right at 48V.
Not interested in 14S. I have a 52V pack on one bike and a charger for it, but my KT LCD3 doesn't read it right and sets the old 13S LVC. I also note the LM317 in the KT circuit board isn't really rated for 58V,
Also, some ebikes I converted that I never liked because they were heavy, aren't just right at 48V.
Not interested in 14S. I have a 52V pack on one bike and a charger for it, but my KT LCD3 doesn't read it right and sets the old 13S LVC. I also note the LM317 in the KT circuit board isn't really rated for 58V,
markz
100 TW
I have 14S 52V Grintech 14.5Ah hard case with 40A that I bought with a Satiator thats charged to 56V at low amps when I get home then 58.80V charged at high amps before I leave the next day.
I also have 10S 36V Ryobi battery thats only ever charged to 40.40V not 42V.
I use both batteries when I ride, the 52V battery first because its LVC is 44V and when I switch over the controller does the switch over fine to 40.40V. If I do 36V first it goes down to controller LVC of 32V and the switch over to 52V the battery wont work unless I touch the white Learn Wires twice to get wheels to spin in proper direction.
Controller is generic 36V 35A and the capacitors are 60V, 14S 52V is charged to 58.80V.
My speeds are not fast, the 52V is just to get extra watts to go up hills faster, a good 36V ebike battery with 40A and lots of Ah would work fine.
Ideally I would want two 48V 50A totaling 50Ah batteries (30Ah + 20Ah) on a 48V 40A controller, with a custom throttle that switches between normal and reduced speed via a handle bar switch. Otherwise its to easy for the speed to creep up on you when using throttle only (no pas).
I also have 10S 36V Ryobi battery thats only ever charged to 40.40V not 42V.
I use both batteries when I ride, the 52V battery first because its LVC is 44V and when I switch over the controller does the switch over fine to 40.40V. If I do 36V first it goes down to controller LVC of 32V and the switch over to 52V the battery wont work unless I touch the white Learn Wires twice to get wheels to spin in proper direction.
Controller is generic 36V 35A and the capacitors are 60V, 14S 52V is charged to 58.80V.
My speeds are not fast, the 52V is just to get extra watts to go up hills faster, a good 36V ebike battery with 40A and lots of Ah would work fine.
Ideally I would want two 48V 50A totaling 50Ah batteries (30Ah + 20Ah) on a 48V 40A controller, with a custom throttle that switches between normal and reduced speed via a handle bar switch. Otherwise its to easy for the speed to creep up on you when using throttle only (no pas).
dogman dan
1 PW
Throttle creep eating up range is one of the reasons I got interested in lower rpm motors. The bike I built strictly for long haul rides and towing trailers had a top speed of 18 mph at wot with 52v. Not everyones ideal, but I loved it because it could tow a trailer up a mountain with a light 500w rated motor, and with no throttle creep I could enjoy the view on a 6 hour ride.
Motomech hit it right on the nail head with his comment. Only after selecting wheel size and motor rpm that suits your needs can you select a voltage that matches your desires.
Motomech hit it right on the nail head with his comment. Only after selecting wheel size and motor rpm that suits your needs can you select a voltage that matches your desires.
miro13car
100 kW
my Eplus drive equipped ebike runs at 37V nominal, usually I start at 43V fully charged which drops to around 41V minimum
at the end of trips.
at the end of trips.
Chalo
100 TW
pullin-gs said:
I don't know why it isn't more popular. It pushes typical too-fast wound hub motors in the right direction, and trips LVC at a relatively healthy cell voltage on 48V controllers. Plus it lets you salvage 48V and 52V packs that have one cell group murdered by a vampire BMS.
12S is a nice even number when it comes to battery maintenance also.Chalo said:
For my last 3 battery builds, I have chosen not to use BMSs. I dont trust them. 12S allows me to use a pair of inexpensive&reliable RC-style 6S voltage monitors and balancers. I soldered up two 6S connectors when I built the packs which I simply manually plug in my two balancers when I'm going over my bike. For the 30AH pack it takes a bit of time to level things off though post-charge.
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