Gregory
100 kW
kmxtornado said:
FYI 36V on 3 SLA is just over 50% charged. You should be seeing >41V.
How to charge my 36v 15ah SLA battery from the car?
- Thread starter kmxtornado
- Start date
FYI 36V on 3 SLA is just over 50% charged. You should be seeing >41V.
whitep
10 mW
whitep said:
600w power inverter off the cigarette socket? Doesn't that blow up the socket? I read in a lot of sources that these cigarette lighter plugs range from 150w-400 tops. Most on the low end. Do you have a special type of car? If this is really possible with my car, this sounds like the easiest, simplest, cheapest, quickest way.[/quote]
It might pop the fuse of a cigarette socket, but in my Octavia I have a high power 12v power socket that has a higher rating that the one in the cabin area. I think a lot of cars have this nowa days?
Gregory
100 kW
You can plug in a 4000W inverter if you want, so long as the appliance you are plugging into it demands less current than the fuse/wiring on the cigarette lighter circuit can handle.
dogman dan
1 PW
Again, he should be using no more than a 1 or 2 amps charger, so under 100w.
Yes, high losses, but nothing compared to running a car engine to get 100w of power.
Fine only for charging while actually traveling to the next stop anyway. One at the destination, you need to get out the small generator, which puts out AC.
Yes, high losses, but nothing compared to running a car engine to get 100w of power.
Fine only for charging while actually traveling to the next stop anyway. One at the destination, you need to get out the small generator, which puts out AC.
kmxtornado
10 kW
B/c the heat needs to dissipate, right? Yes, the glove box would be open during use. As for under the seat, I figured air can still release in the space under the seat but perhaps I should put it out still just to give it more volume for the heat to escape.
anon0973923
10 W
Why not one of these? http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15168__HobbyKing_8482_ECO8_150W_7A_8S_Bal_Dis_Cyc_Charger_w_accessories_US_Warehouse_.html
kmxtornado
10 kW
No cigarette lighter adapter. Don't want to attach this to an open hood in a parking lot with the car running.
Got it. So the inverter size doesn't really matter. It's how much current I'm attempting to draw from it that can melt the wires if not big enough gauge for the task.
Little confused. I have three 12v batteries. Total is 36v. When I take the meter, it goes to about 38v or so when full charged. I understand the 36v is not exact and to expect a little more but where do you get 41v from?
If my charger is drawing less than 100w, wouldn't it be okay to charge it while the car is stationary (alternator not moving)? My initial goal was to charge only when the car is moving, but curious what my limits are on a setup of 300w inverter charging my 36v battery at 1.6amps. If for some reason I'm desperate to charge the battery in a car that's not moving, how risky is that of the car battery dying off and not being able to start? Sometimes, I do like the feed the baby while the battery is charging off the cigarette lighter in a stationary car for about 30-60 min. That's no biggy, right?
And in this case, shouldn't I have gotten a 200w inverter to save on draw from the car battery? Or did we establish up top that the inverter size doesn't matter. It's the current draw that does.
Sorry if this is all getting way redundant. I got what I needed to make the decision to have already purchased the Bestek 300w inverter. But just trying to learn and truly understand as opposed to just reading responses and going with it blind.
Gregory said:
Got it. So the inverter size doesn't really matter. It's how much current I'm attempting to draw from it that can melt the wires if not big enough gauge for the task.
Gregory said:
Little confused. I have three 12v batteries. Total is 36v. When I take the meter, it goes to about 38v or so when full charged. I understand the 36v is not exact and to expect a little more but where do you get 41v from?
dogman dan said:
If my charger is drawing less than 100w, wouldn't it be okay to charge it while the car is stationary (alternator not moving)? My initial goal was to charge only when the car is moving, but curious what my limits are on a setup of 300w inverter charging my 36v battery at 1.6amps. If for some reason I'm desperate to charge the battery in a car that's not moving, how risky is that of the car battery dying off and not being able to start? Sometimes, I do like the feed the baby while the battery is charging off the cigarette lighter in a stationary car for about 30-60 min. That's no biggy, right?
And in this case, shouldn't I have gotten a 200w inverter to save on draw from the car battery? Or did we establish up top that the inverter size doesn't matter. It's the current draw that does.
Sorry if this is all getting way redundant. I got what I needed to make the decision to have already purchased the Bestek 300w inverter. But just trying to learn and truly understand as opposed to just reading responses and going with it blind.
anon0973923
10 W
kmxtornado said:
Just wire in your own. It would take all of 5 minutes and be a much better solution than going DC->AC->DC, which is not a solution I would consider paying money for.
kmxtornado
10 kW
Thanks for your suggestion, but you're assuming I'm much smarter than I really am. Since I know nothing about this stuff, I like the security of having the inverter that's hardwired to the cigarette lighter adapter w/o exposed metal leads. I guess I'm paranoid b/c I recently felt like I almost blew off my finger: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70815&hilit=+finger
anon0973923
10 W
kmxtornado said:
I understand, but it's silly to talk about electrical safety when you are considering inverting power to 110VAC instead of just wiring everything at 12VDC. And I don't really understand how you plan on hardwiring an inverter without bare leads.
This is like buying a lemon because a banana is too hard to peel.
Just chop off the alligator clips and connect the wires in whatever fashion you see fit. You can connect the leads to one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-24V-Male-Car-Cigarette-Lighter-Socket-Plug-Connector-On-Off-Switch-1-5m-WP-/111662365716?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ff987c14
kmxtornado
10 kW
I won't be hardwiring the inverter. I'm using the Bestek 300w inverter as stated in this thread with cigarette lighter adapter. Plugs right in.
I also don't see the standard 3-prong plug on that hobbyking charger that I would need to have to charge my battery via the brick charger that I have. If you're suggesting that I charge it using the terminals on the battery directly, I've already stated that I'd like to keep the batteries in the case that they're in and not have to unscrew it and screw it back on every time I want to charge on the go.
The power inverter seems to be the simplest way. Am I missing something? I thought the inverter was the banana.
I also don't see the standard 3-prong plug on that hobbyking charger that I would need to have to charge my battery via the brick charger that I have. If you're suggesting that I charge it using the terminals on the battery directly, I've already stated that I'd like to keep the batteries in the case that they're in and not have to unscrew it and screw it back on every time I want to charge on the go.
The power inverter seems to be the simplest way. Am I missing something? I thought the inverter was the banana.
anon0973923
10 W
kmxtornado said:
You don't need to charge a charger.
The charger I linked is a DC charger, not AC. It inputs 12VDC from your car and outputs 36VDC for your batteries. It's the ideal solution, it's what it was designed to do. No inversion. No AC power involved. It's cheaper than an inverter, can charge at 3 times the rate, and is much more efficient. You can probably get away with running it with your car off if you keep the amps low. It will give you a good idea of the battery capacity on the fly.
Currently you want to go: 12VDC->110VAC->36VDC, which is wholly inefficient.
The 'brick charger' is not designed for use in a car. Without knowing more about your scooter it's difficult to tell you how to bypass it. There has to be leads that you can tap into on the battery or use the existing connector that your brick charger plugs into. Is the charger hardwired to the scooter?
With this said, you're more than welcome to use an inverter, I just can't understand why you would pay extra money for a less robust setup. You're going to need a sine-wave inverter for something as delicate as battery charging, so be prepared to spend ~$150.
kmxtornado
10 kW
Thanks for your response. I realize the hobbyking charger you're talking about doesn't require me to use my own charger since it's a charger in itself. No inverter needed. DC to DC instead of DC to AC back to DC. but that would mean that I would have to hook up a 3-pin inline charger. You're suggesting that I get the power from the car by clipping off the alligator clips and replacing it with a cigarette lighter adapter.
Now for the other end. The battery uses a 3-pin in-line charging connector. Are you suggesting that I can hook that up to the hobbyking charger? I don't mind the extra cost and tinkering but would this setup you suggest charge the battery significantly quicker due to the inefficiency of DC to AC to DC that's being avoided?
The charger is not hardwired to the scooter/battery. As mentioned before, I typically charge it up in the passenger seat. The scooter stays in the trunk or alongside me next to the car if I'm stationary.
What do you mean by me "paying extra"? Perhaps you skipped over the portion of the thread where I mention the considerations. As noted earlier, the inverter costs $30 compared to the $44 hobby king charger before tax and shipping. The difference is still not a big deal. I'd be happy to spend $70 as noted in my original post for a good setup. I was even ready to fork over $174 on the Duracell Power Pack Pro back when I thought that's what I needed.
Now for the other end. The battery uses a 3-pin in-line charging connector. Are you suggesting that I can hook that up to the hobbyking charger? I don't mind the extra cost and tinkering but would this setup you suggest charge the battery significantly quicker due to the inefficiency of DC to AC to DC that's being avoided?
The charger is not hardwired to the scooter/battery. As mentioned before, I typically charge it up in the passenger seat. The scooter stays in the trunk or alongside me next to the car if I'm stationary.
What do you mean by me "paying extra"? Perhaps you skipped over the portion of the thread where I mention the considerations. As noted earlier, the inverter costs $30 compared to the $44 hobby king charger before tax and shipping. The difference is still not a big deal. I'd be happy to spend $70 as noted in my original post for a good setup. I was even ready to fork over $174 on the Duracell Power Pack Pro back when I thought that's what I needed.
999zip999
100 TW
Get an extension cord and beg or borrow for a plug for your charger. Hell pimp yourself out if you can't charm your way in.
kmxtornado
10 kW
Oh believe me, I would totally pimp myself out if I was good looking enough. The charm doesn't work. I did park next to a house one time and was going to ask them for some tools to fix the scooter, but ended up fabricating my own with a plastic pen top and an allen wrench. Ultimately I did get the scooter working and I was able to find a "public" outdoor power receptacle hidden in the landscaping of a park and another one outside a community center. I'm always worried that someone would steal the scooter even though I have it locked up.
dogman dan
1 PW
36v lead should be charged to 42v. That's full.
Best approach may well be a 100w RC charger, and then put the cigarette lighter thing on it. Easy to do.
Go ahead, charge the 36v battery with the car off. Just be sure you have AAA, because you will need it to start your car. Oh, and that deep discharge just took 6 months off the lifespan of you car battery too. You'll have to run the car to keep your car battery topped up, and in good shape. But running a car to charge a scooter. I'm sorry that's just a horribly inefficient way to do it.
Or, you could have 2 batteries in the car, which costs as much as just having a second 36v battery.
Best approach may well be a 100w RC charger, and then put the cigarette lighter thing on it. Easy to do.
Go ahead, charge the 36v battery with the car off. Just be sure you have AAA, because you will need it to start your car. Oh, and that deep discharge just took 6 months off the lifespan of you car battery too. You'll have to run the car to keep your car battery topped up, and in good shape. But running a car to charge a scooter. I'm sorry that's just a horribly inefficient way to do it.
Or, you could have 2 batteries in the car, which costs as much as just having a second 36v battery.
kmxtornado
10 kW
Thanks for your input. I'm not looking necessarily for the most efficient way to charge the battery - just the most convenient. I use the scooter for street fairs, festivals and car shows. If I'm in between shows, I don't really have much opportunity to charge other than in a car when I'm commuting to the next event. There was a time where I left the scooter "locked" by a community center and bumbed off their outdoor power receptacle, but that's not ideal. I hate leaving the scooter unattended. I ended up having lunch there with my daughter keeping an eye on it for about 45 minutes and then walked around for another 30 min.
No problem at all charging on the go at the events, but I can't rely on having a power receptacle available. It's more of a bonus if I happen to see one. All this is starting to make me think I should've kept with the 24v 18ah setup vs the "upgraded" 36v 15ah setup.
No problem at all charging on the go at the events, but I can't rely on having a power receptacle available. It's more of a bonus if I happen to see one. All this is starting to make me think I should've kept with the 24v 18ah setup vs the "upgraded" 36v 15ah setup.
dogman dan
1 PW
True enough, convenience matters. We all have to use this stuff in the real world. For some, a plug to charge is always there, for others it can be tiresome to hunt a plug down.
If you just let it charge off the car, not running, have one of those jumper packs in the trunk so you don't have to call AAA if you do run your car battery too low.
If you just let it charge off the car, not running, have one of those jumper packs in the trunk so you don't have to call AAA if you do run your car battery too low.
999zip999
100 TW
Maybe a 24v lithium battery is in your future. Longer range, faster charging. Longer lasting. Lighter to carry.
Hillhater
100 TW
I might suggest some cheap/old lead car batteries that you can pre charge and carry in the trunk to charge from.
Save your car battery for what it was intended and avoid premature failure.
Save your car battery for what it was intended and avoid premature failure.
999zip999
100 TW
Yea your technique is very hard on your car battery. you would want your car battery to prematurely fail hundred or hundred twenty five dollars.
kmxtornado
10 kW
Maybe eventually, I'll rig up my existing 36v 10ah LifePo4 battery from one of my other rides now that I have some anderson power poles available. Just a simple swap I assume. Just gotta get those connections done. Range on that one would be even worse, but if if it can charge faster, that might be a good benefit. Weight isn't much of an issue since the scooter weighs close to 70lbs w/o the battery. Current SLA battery is 24.5lbs (yup, I literally put it on a scale to see the difference between two 12v 18ah batteries and three 12v 15ah batteries).
Yes, I have AAA in case I'm really stuck.
With so much warning and advice against using the car battery, I'll try a bit harder to seek out an outlet and time it so that I can eat or browse during "charge" time.
Just so everyone knows what we're dealing with here in case you were curious. My daughter sits up in front and I sit behind her to steer. My wife only joins us on the back for quick rides around the block. It's otherwise just me and the little one:
Yes, I have AAA in case I'm really stuck.
With so much warning and advice against using the car battery, I'll try a bit harder to seek out an outlet and time it so that I can eat or browse during "charge" time.
Just so everyone knows what we're dealing with here in case you were curious. My daughter sits up in front and I sit behind her to steer. My wife only joins us on the back for quick rides around the block. It's otherwise just me and the little one:
dogman dan
1 PW
Cool scoot for sure. It just needs a 20 ah lithium pack, so it won't need charging till night when you are back at a plug.
kmxtornado
10 kW
Thanks. Seems like $550 or so + hazmat fee + shipping + tax = $700. A bit steep for me though. I'm expecting it to be even pricier b/c I'll need it a custom size
to fit into my battery box for easy removal and charging. It'll also keep it nice and tight so it won't wobble while on the move. If the benefit of a 20ah one is so that I don't have to charge on the go, the benefit of LifePo4 charging faster that SLA's won't be an advantage for me. Since weight really isn't an issue either, I feel like the 3 SLA's might be the best balance of everything in my situation.
to fit into my battery box for easy removal and charging. It'll also keep it nice and tight so it won't wobble while on the move. If the benefit of a 20ah one is so that I don't have to charge on the go, the benefit of LifePo4 charging faster that SLA's won't be an advantage for me. Since weight really isn't an issue either, I feel like the 3 SLA's might be the best balance of everything in my situation.
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