Hymotion/a123Systems new Prius L5 pack available...

[GGoodrum]

I got an email today that announced that Hymotion/a123Systems is finally ready to start taking orders for their new "L5" plug-in conversion pack for 2004-2008 Prius models. You put down a deposit, and the installation swill take place around July. Here's the new website: http://www.a123systems.com/hymotion. Be sure a check out the flash animation, as it shows exploded views, down to the cell level.

I'm still waiting for the Escape Hybrid version, but I guess that is still a bit off.

-- Gary

 

[Dee Jay]

Rob Lowe, that scoundrel, a . . . greeny weenie ? ?

Now I'm going to have to buy all of his movies.

 

[Dee Jay]

Speaking of The Brat Pack. Robert Downey Jr. will plays Iron Man. The ultimate DIY fantasy! Can't be missed!

http://ironmanmovie.marvel.com/

8)

J

 

[safe]

What a bargain... only $9995 !

Gosh, who knew "Going Green" was so affordable? :lol:

 

[fechter]

Hey, it used to be $14k, so at least it's getting cheaper.

I think the Escape version will be ready soon. I'll see if I can get a date.

 

[docnjoj]

Maybe I'm missing something, but Prius comes with and 8 year battery warantee! Its free with the car. These Batts (Hymotion), for the "priviledge" of getting 1 Gal per day extra (40 miles to a charge) I would lose my battery warantee and get a new one lless than half as long, and for an extr 10Gs! I really dont get it!
Even with gas at $5/gal, the payback is roughly 5 years for a regular commuter. This doesnt count your old batteries, which if U sell them, it would help defray the cost. But again, U lose warantee. What if Hymotion goes bad in 4 years?!?!?
Doc

 

[safe]

Criticism retracted... the price is okay... see below for more details about why...

 

[EMF]

What a bargain... only $9995 !

Gosh, who knew "Going Green" was so affordable? :lol:

Here you go Safe..this looks about your speed then. 24 volts of lead. It's a bit too late though for this one, as it was already won on ebay for 1500 dollars. I can see this rig with a trailer towing project #1 back home from a 7 mile journey.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-1948-AUTOETTE-ELECTRIC-CAR-CAR-SHOW-CRUISER_W0QQitemZ120239497755QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item120239497755

 

[GGoodrum]

Hey, it used to be $14k, so at least it's getting cheaper.

I think the Escape version will be ready soon. I'll see if I can get a date.

Yes, please do. I have two Escape Hybrids I want to do this to, eventually.

I thought this was being done as an add-on, not a replacement for the NiMH pack, but I could be wrong. In either case, if it will allow for electric-only drive up to 40 miles, That is more than enough for our use here, and for my daughter's commute as a teacher in the Bay area. That means zero gas used. For me, it is less about the money saved, and/or how long it takes to pay for itself. Instead, it is intense satisfaction of driving past my local gas stations, chuckling as I watch the prices rise.

I can see how simply adding this module could be done without any changes required to the existing vehicle management system, as it will turn on the engine when the battery voltage drops below a certain point, but the engine also kicks in if either the load is too great, or if the speed goes over 40 mph. I've learned how to do "throttle management" in order to keep the engine from coming on for "normal" loads, but I have to keep it under 40 in order to keep it in the electric-only mode. I can actually go about 3--4 miles in electric-only, before the battery is drained to the point the engine comes on. If I lived in a less-hilly area, this would be easier to do. I'm hoping the installation they do with this conversion includes some sort of "tweaks" for the VMS that will at least increase the electric-only speed to like 55-60 mph, and maybe also increase the amount of load the motor can handle before the engine kicks in.

in looking at the exploded views in the anmation, and by doing the math, it looks like they are using the same 26650 "tool" cells, instead of the larger format version being done for the Volt and other projects. It appears there are 14 modules, arranged 7 in series and two in parallel. Each module has 44 cells, arranged 11 in series and 4 in parallel, so each module has a nominal voltage of 36.3V and a 9.2Ah capacity. Having two modules in parallel means a capacity of 18.4Ah, and seven modules in series would be 254.1V, which fits in the Prius/Escape voltage range. Multiplying the two together gives 4.675Wh, which is about what they are advertising. So, that works out to 616 cells, or about 62 DeWalt packs.

-- Gary

 

[Doctorbass]

looking at theur 3d CAD animation, it's 14 modules of 44 A123 cells.
For a total of 616 cells

Each have 3.3 x 2.3Ah=7.59Wh

616x 7.59=4675Wh.. so it's more like 4.6kWh instaad of 5 claimed..

9995$ /616cells=16.22$ per cells.. BMS and HEAT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM included! that is the SAME RETAIL PRICE OF THE DEWALT PACK!

that's good news.. if we keep in mind that they would drop the price after couples of month...

Doc

 

[miro13car]

Gary,
excellent points you make here.
It is like having 2 cars in one.
When I needed to go 10km to my work I use electric only and still can opportunity charge all over the place at least here in Alberta. Car would look strange plugged in in the middle of summer but if I used cover up/bushes, green cord, etc./I am sure I would recharge at least 50%.
Very often outside recepticle breakers are never turned off for the summer here.
With shallow dischargers A123battery would last like 3000 chargers,at least 10 years.
I imagine around city I would not use liter of gasoline for months unless I drive out of city of course.
Bottom line is NOT TO WORK farther than 15km from your house.
And I know exactely what you feel, I have also that feeling passing by gasoline pumps on my e-bike and looking on those hopeless people who don`t know there is a world, my world with so little gasoline.
My car 9-year old has 62000 km on odometer. Honda service was so surprised and still original breakes and tires.

MC

 

[docnjoj]

Does the Prius have a "recharge" feature from the engine? I mean something separate from regen braking or coasting?
Doc

 

[safe]

looking at theur 3d CAD animation, it's 14 modules of 44 A123 cells.
For a total of 616 cells

Each have 3.3 x 2.3Ah=7.59Wh

616x 7.59=4675Wh.. so it's more like 4.6kWh instead of 5 claimed..

9995$ /616cells=16.22$ per cells.. BMS and HEAT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM included! that is the SAME RETAIL PRICE OF THE DEWALT PACK!

I must retract my criticism. The "doc" knows how to do the math and that's the best way to win an argument. If the price is competitive then that just goes to show how big cars are compared to ebikes.

Sure seems like a lot of money... but I guess if they can last for 50,000 miles or so then it makes sense... :?

 

[CGameProgrammer]

Just think of it as a $31,000 Prius. That's a reasonable price for a PHEV.

 

[GGoodrum]

I agree, it is a very reasonable price for a PHEV. I only hope the Volt ends up being in the same range of reasonableness. I thought for sure that this mod was going to be $15, or so. I was pleasantly surprised to see they got it down to $10k.

 

[PJD]

I assume the maximum speed under all-electric power for a Prius is still just 30 mph/50kph. Correct?

 

[GGoodrum]

I assume the maximum speed under all-electric power for a Prius is still just 30 mph/50kph. Correct?

I don't know about the Prius, but on the Escape Hybrid, which supposedly has a licensed version of the same system, the max speed before the engine kicks in is 40 mph, not 30. I thought, though, I read that with the upgrade, this limit is raised to 60 mph, but that could just be wishful thinking on my part.

-- Gary

 

[patrick_mahoney]

According to the graph on this page,
http://www.a123systems.com/hymotion/technology/performance_data

It looks like the Prius goes to 35mph on battery power alone and then requires the engine to go faster - at least that's how I interpret the stair-step on the blue fuel line when the engine goes above 35mph.

 

[mr.electric]

The Hymotion Prius goes 35mph and kicks out of EV mode. It also has a current limit and accelerator pedal position kick out for EV mode. All of this is dictated by the Prius EV mode progarming that was written by Toyota. Prius vehicles in Europe and Asia have an EV mode button which is not installed on Prius vehicles sold in America due to an emissions problem that occurs on engine start up after EV mode is cancelled and the catalitic converter has cooled off.
Picture shows me during a Hymotion PHEv install. I have installed several PHEV systems for Hymotion. I did not assist the engineering process, only installed the finished product in the vehicles.

 

[GGoodrum]

Interesting. How is the new pack connected into the system? Do you basically just parallel this new battery in with the existing one? How are the connections handled?

I've heard about the EV-only button for the non-US Prius'. I think there is even a thread here somewhere which shows how to add it. I wish there was something similar for the Escape Hybrid.

So, it now makes sense, If all they do is piggyback this on with the existing NiMH pack, there wouldn't be any other changes required, but it would sure be nice if they also had some tweaks for the VMS. There's really no reason the engine has to come on at all, until the combine battery voltage gets down to the level it does now when the engine kicks in. I'd also love to see the max speed upped to at least 60, before the engine comes on. At least with the Escape, it is set at 40 mph, not 35.

Without these "adjustments", I'm just not sure this is really worth $10k. I can't see how, under normal driving conditions, that this is going to save any gas at all, really. If you press the throttle more than about 10%, the engine kicks in. You go over 35/40, the engine kicks in. The only time you can go on battery-only is if you are driving on flat services, don't mind accelrating no faster than slow duck and keep the speed down to a level where around here, at least, I'd have to use the golf cart lanes. What am I missing here?

-- Gary