Hyperion RC Motor Hall Sensor Mounting

[fitek]

Starting a thread about this. I bought a Hyperion RC motor and was planning on using it with a sensorless ebike controller, but they've all blown up before I had a chance to try them out. So I bought some SS411A hall sensors. Will attempt to mount them tonight. Will report back on success.

The motor has 14 coils inside.

I have an original 48v ECrazyman controller that's been overclocked and modded for 36v operation. Waiting on a controller from BMSBattery also.

 

[johnrobholmes]

You sure it isn't 12 coils and 14 magnets? The easiest way is to mount them in at 120* separation between the stator heads. If you can't get it running with any combination, swap all sensors over one gap and try again. Hot glue is fine for testing, and potting epoxy is good for final fit.


What motor is it?

 

[fitek]

You are right. 14 magnets and 12 coils. We taped the sensors on to the outside of the can with two coils between each sensor and it worked though it was very sensitive to the hall position. The ss411a also worked fine in a kollmorgen. The kollmorgen does not have them spaced 120 degrees apart... more like 40 Degrees. The whole hall PCB is 1/3rd of the motor circumference so we were copying this layout. which Hyperion? z5045-18

 

[dontsendbubbamail]

You are right. 14 magnets and 12 coils. We taped the sensors on to the outside of the can with two coils between each sensor and it worked though it was very sensitive to the hall position. The ss411a also worked fine in a kollmorgen. The kollmorgen does not have them spaced 120 degrees apart... more like 40 Degrees. The whole hall PCB is 1/3rd of the motor circumference so we were copying this layout. which Hyperion? z5045-18

There are three hall effect spacings that will work.
120 deg with hall effects facing the same direction.
60 deg with the middle hall effect facing opposite the end ones.
17.14 deg and the thread should say which way they face.

I think you will find that things will be less sensitive when you mount the hall effects to something that keeps their releative position constant. Some places are better then other for mounting the hall effects. I not sure if it is in the linked thread, but someone did a magnetic mapping and determined that roughly mid bell is the best mounting location.

Bubba

 

[fitek]

Thanks Bubba!

Jeremy Harris managed to fit his hall sensors in between the motor's inner coils by grinding out some of the iron the wires are wrapped around. This motor is small enough and the hall sensors big enough (they are tiny, but still too big) that it doesn't look very safe to attempt the same thing on this motor. The hall sensor depth is great enough that we'd probably hit the wire wrapped around the iron with the grinder. I really don't want to cut one of the wires... I get the feeling it would be like trying to fix a broken electric guitar pickup which is a PITA...

My partner Ben suggested grinding away some of the hall sensor case but it would still be iffy.

He tried mounting the hall sensors in the larger space at the end of the coils but the motor had no torque at all.

So we're going to mount the hall sensors externally.

Ben is going to mill out a piece of 1/2" plastic plate into a ring with a slightly greater circumference than the can. Then the hall sensors get mounted to the plastic. I'll modify the motor mount to include a way to secure the ring in place.

 

[fitek]

Just a follow up: the external mounting works. Motor runs fine at low speed. The system does cut out at high throttle. You have to put the throttle back down to zero and then bring it back up. I'm not sure if this is the fault of the throttle, the controller, or the hall sensor mounting. Until my BMSBattery order arrives I won't have spare parts to test with. Will update the thread when that happens.

 

[gwhy!]

Just a follow up: the external mounting works. Motor runs fine at low speed. The system does cut out at high throttle. You have to put the throttle back down to zero and then bring it back up. I'm not sure if this is the fault of the throttle, the controller, or the hall sensor mounting. Until my BMSBattery order arrives I won't have spare parts to test with. Will update the thread when that happens.

Hi fitek,
This problem has come up a few times now in a few threads, I think the general consensus is its the hall positioning ( spacing ) but you can also get these symptoms if the timing is slightly out. Some keywin controllers are effected more than others, I have 4 of them and only 2 played up. The 2 controllers that work are my old version 6fet and a new version 12fet but the 2 6fet new versions were have similar problems. I have just ordered some more halls to make some adjustments to my setups and test ( and hopefully get a definite answer to this problem ) .

 

[gwhy!]

I have just ordered some more halls to make some adjustments to my setups and test ( and hopefully get a definite answer to this problem ) .

Made 3 pcbs with slightly different hall spacing 17.14 degrees and +- 1 degree with adjustemt to allow a additional +-1 degrees and this made no difference at all only drew more no load current. So it looks like its not the hall sensor spacing after all, back to square one...

 

[fitek]

I did some more testing as well. I tried other wiring combinations, no go.

I tried out a sensorless controller. Runs just fine, but it's really anemic, especially from a dead stop.

I have a partially built DIY 3 phase controller which I'm working on finishing. I had one phase of the power board built so I'm moving on to do the other two. At least then I have control over the code & can do some better troubleshooting. Maybe it will run ok. We'll see, a bit busy these days.

I was showing off the scooter's capabilities to some friends and we crashed it about two dozen times doing wheelies. Finally the throttle shattered when the scooter went end over end in a parking lot. Hmm, so now I need to wait on a throttle This thing is definitely a lot of fun though...

 

[gwhy!]

This issue about the controller cutting out is being looked into on this thread http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16910

and mounting hall sensors to outrunners in this one http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=15686

 

[fitek]

Just an update but the Hyperion works fine with a BMS Battery controller.

 

[dbaker]

Which controller? Can you post a link to the one you are using?

 

[fitek]

They only have 3 controllers: 6,9, and 12 mosfet. I have the 12 mosfet. It's pretty pathetic when run sensorless, but with the hall sensors added it has way more torque than anyone can really handle (mind you, this is with 6 inch wheel).

I'm going to try and mount it on a larger scooter.