Lebowski
10 MW
Congratulation with your new car !
I broke down...bought a car.
- Thread starter RVD
- Start date
AussieJester
1 TW
You rambling on again Nep...You clearly said electric can do everything ICE car can already, i asked for a link to a car that can travel 300mile at freeway speeds and then be charged in 5 minutes, simply task for most new ICE cars no? ....all i want is a link or make of car that is equal to what ICE car can do, i'm not after rambling facts of what electrics can do i'm well aware of their advantageous offerings Nep, just not aware of any that can do everything an ICE car can 
so.... still i wait for link/model or hehe more realistically your admission that you "boolshitted" slightly 
(which is what you did Nep, lets be honest ) I'm not interested in who you think needs a car that can charge in 5 minutes, you told us all electrics could do everything an ICE could, ICE cars take less than 5 minutes to fill and can do 300 plus on a tank at more than freeway speeds. I'm not saying electric cars aren't suited to some people, obviously they are. Now, about that link?
:lol: :lol: HAHA...see this is where you have it back to front my friend, i don't give a toss either way, its just
so very easy and irresistable to me, not to rev you lot of hippy tree huggers up, you take the
bait everytime and run with it, so predictable... ROFLMFAO
I.C.E FTW...
KiM
so.... still i wait for link/model or hehe more realistically your admission that you "boolshitted" slightly (which is what you did Nep, lets be honest ) I'm not interested in who you think needs a car that can charge in 5 minutes, you told us all electrics could do everything an ICE could, ICE cars take less than 5 minutes to fill and can do 300 plus on a tank at more than freeway speeds. I'm not saying electric cars aren't suited to some people, obviously they are. Now, about that link? neptronix said:
:lol: :lol: HAHA...see this is where you have it back to front my friend, i don't give a toss either way, its just
so very easy and irresistable to me, not to rev you lot of hippy tree huggers up, you take the
bait everytime and run with it, so predictable... ROFLMFAO
Icewrench said:
I.C.E FTW...
KiM
Hm, i think i made it pretty clear that the absolute worse case scenario for the Tesla Model S at highway speeds was a 200 mile range. Then i went on to say that 5 minute recharge times don't matter when you have 6-8 hours of recharge time at home while ya sleep, at the very least. To that extent, charge time doesn't matter at all, since you never have to wait ( you're sleeping ), you don't have to spend your time going to a gas station, etc.
And i never said 300 miles at highway speeds doesn't exist, 200 miles does. That's the worst case. We'll have to find out what the final report on that car is.
But tell me this, how many internal combustion engine cars could do 300 miles ... in city traffic? i bet you that the upper end Tesla could do 'bout 350 miles on a charge if the conditions were right.
BTW you never came up with any information on how the ICE could even hold a candle to an electric drivetrain So you have no room to talk.
And as for me getting riled up, ha. It's not as if you don't jump in any conversation of this sort and defend the ICE till the bitter end.
I don't take offense to your tree hugger hippy comment. There's nothing wrong with caring about the environment. Caring about the environment is not my main reason for being a huge EV advocate though.
And i never said 300 miles at highway speeds doesn't exist, 200 miles does. That's the worst case. We'll have to find out what the final report on that car is.
But tell me this, how many internal combustion engine cars could do 300 miles ... in city traffic? i bet you that the upper end Tesla could do 'bout 350 miles on a charge if the conditions were right.
BTW you never came up with any information on how the ICE could even hold a candle to an electric drivetrain
So you have no room to talk.And as for me getting riled up, ha. It's not as if you don't jump in any conversation of this sort and defend the ICE till the bitter end.
I don't take offense to your tree hugger hippy comment. There's nothing wrong with caring about the environment. Caring about the environment is not my main reason for being a huge EV advocate though.
AussieJester
1 TW
Again...i dont need to "tell you anything" i didn't make the bold statement about electrics in he first place...I'm not
bagging them or defedning them just waiting for some proof to backup your bold claim...
300mile range freeway speeds 5 minute charge time...... show me the links babe'
KiM
bagging them or defedning them just waiting for some proof to backup your bold claim...
300mile range freeway speeds 5 minute charge time...... show me the links babe'
KiM
I already told you no car exists, so why do you keep asking.
And no ICE vehicle that doesn't pollute, use dwinding fossil fuels, require regular maintenance, and depreciate like a rock doesn't exist either, so we're not going anywhere with this argument, are we? :lol:
You can keep raising the bar about what an electric car 'should do' until we're talking about a diesel car with a very large tank. But the average every day drive is 40 miles here in America:
http://www.bts.gov/programs/national_household_travel_survey/daily_travel.html
And the Model S will do 5 times that, in the worst case scenario of 200 miles.
Oh and BTW, ~10 minute charge time chemistries exist but aren't in any production car yet.
http://www.toshiba.com/ind/product_display.jsp?id1=821
That's just one example. There are many others.
You'll be able to eat that claim in a few years, then start criticizing EVs for not going 400 miles on a charge i suppose.
And no ICE vehicle that doesn't pollute, use dwinding fossil fuels, require regular maintenance, and depreciate like a rock doesn't exist either, so we're not going anywhere with this argument, are we? :lol:
You can keep raising the bar about what an electric car 'should do' until we're talking about a diesel car with a very large tank. But the average every day drive is 40 miles here in America:
http://www.bts.gov/programs/national_household_travel_survey/daily_travel.html
And the Model S will do 5 times that, in the worst case scenario of 200 miles.
Oh and BTW, ~10 minute charge time chemistries exist but aren't in any production car yet.
http://www.toshiba.com/ind/product_display.jsp?id1=821
That's just one example. There are many others.
You'll be able to eat that claim in a few years, then start criticizing EVs for not going 400 miles on a charge i suppose.
o00scorpion00o
100 kW
Diesels in Europe can do 700 miles or more on a tank, so what ? no point to it really! I can get 540miles easily out of my MK II Prius, again so what ?
No matter where I drive on this Island 300 miles will land me in the Atlantic ocean, or the Irish sea, so 300 mile range + is useless!
If I drive from the south of Ireland to the north that's about 250 miles a little more if you want to go coast to coast.
Anyway, the BMW 7 series has a 4.7 second time Dave, so you are right it's 0.3 seconds behind the sport Tesla! Though the BMW is limited to 150 mph as all Euro cars, all Euro cars that have engines that is! The Sport Tesla has a top speed of 120 mph! You will find plenty of tuners with the ability to remove the limiter for the BMW!
Dave, you say people will charge at night mostly which is true, but you still can't get away from the fact that 5 min refills are incredibly useful for when you need to go somewhere fast! I see no need really for a big battery that can go for 300 miles, it just adds to unnecessary expense, unless of course you regularly drive 300 miles in one day! A car that has a real range of 100-150 miles is more than good enough and can recharge in 5 or 10 mins.
Nissan have already a 10 min charger, but no one knows if it will be available in Gen II leaf, but they need a battery that can take it without reducing it's life.
What's interesting about the Tesla is the 20kw charger, on 220 volts here I can pull 13,200 watts max and that's the max allowed for the whole house. I don't know if modern houses have a higher capacity. I thought you would need 3 phase for 20kw ???
The saddest thing though would be the cost of the 300 mile Tesla in Ireland, 69,900 usd on their website + 23% sales tax would bring it to 86,100 usd -5000 grant =81,000
The 6.0L 544 hp 7 series in Ireland costs 245,000 USD LMAO that's with 23% sales tax + an extra whopping 36% registration tax! It would cost 118,000 without Irish tax!
Sometimes I really really hate living in Europe, we have reached the time when the tax is so high on everything that people can't afford to buy, meaning the government gets less in the end, but do they realise it? nope!
Anyway RVD congrats on your purchase man, and have fun on the autobahn, lets us know how you get on, the 7 series is a really nice car!!!
And of course E.V's are exempt form the several thousand registration tax!
No matter where I drive on this Island 300 miles will land me in the Atlantic ocean, or the Irish sea, so 300 mile range + is useless!
If I drive from the south of Ireland to the north that's about 250 miles a little more if you want to go coast to coast.
Anyway, the BMW 7 series has a 4.7 second time Dave, so you are right it's 0.3 seconds behind the sport Tesla!
Though the BMW is limited to 150 mph as all Euro cars, all Euro cars that have engines that is! The Sport Tesla has a top speed of 120 mph! You will find plenty of tuners with the ability to remove the limiter for the BMW!Dave, you say people will charge at night mostly which is true, but you still can't get away from the fact that 5 min refills are incredibly useful for when you need to go somewhere fast! I see no need really for a big battery that can go for 300 miles, it just adds to unnecessary expense, unless of course you regularly drive 300 miles in one day! A car that has a real range of 100-150 miles is more than good enough and can recharge in 5 or 10 mins.
Nissan have already a 10 min charger, but no one knows if it will be available in Gen II leaf, but they need a battery that can take it without reducing it's life.
What's interesting about the Tesla is the 20kw charger, on 220 volts here I can pull 13,200 watts max and that's the max allowed for the whole house. I don't know if modern houses have a higher capacity. I thought you would need 3 phase for 20kw ???
The saddest thing though would be the cost of the 300 mile Tesla in Ireland, 69,900 usd on their website + 23% sales tax would bring it to 86,100 usd -5000 grant =81,000
The 6.0L 544 hp 7 series in Ireland costs 245,000 USD LMAO that's with 23% sales tax + an extra whopping 36% registration tax! It would cost 118,000 without Irish tax!
Sometimes I really really hate living in Europe, we have reached the time when the tax is so high on everything that people can't afford to buy, meaning the government gets less in the end, but do they realise it? nope!
Anyway RVD congrats on your purchase man, and have fun on the autobahn, lets us know how you get on, the 7 series is a really nice car!!!
And of course E.V's are exempt form the several thousand registration tax!
dingoEsride
100 kW
I think what AJ is talking about is going on a interstate run maybe having multiple drivers hour on end stuff, 200 miles in Aus outback might not even get you to the next fuel up stop so an all electric will die
But in Europe an electric Beemer in an open speed limit would be fun, roll up at a zimmer, see the sights, put car on charge have dinner, entertain your lady friend, sleep and off you go again in the morning for another 200 then do the same again
But in Europe an electric Beemer in an open speed limit would be fun, roll up at a zimmer, see the sights, put car on charge have dinner, entertain your lady friend, sleep and off you go again in the morning for another 200 then do the same again
RVD
1 kW
btw, bmw and the US government has $13,500 in incentives on this car and most of it expires at the end of the year.
but either way, it's still an ICE etc. i didn't necessarily want to go out and buy another car but oh well.
i think EVs will work for about 90% of the driving out there. i mostly just drive back and forth from work and then go places on weekends. i rarely need to go 300+ miles in a single day. for those times, i could probably just rent an ICE car if needed. EVs definitely have a place. i wish battery technology would improve though.
so yeah, a nissan leaf would have been ok. but i'm also not the type to get on a long waiting list and hope to get a car. i tried to get a leaf but nobody had them in stock and the only ones that said that they were getting some said that it goes to the guys on their waiting list first.
toyota is coming out with the EV prius but there's a waiting list for that too. heck, i couldn't even get on the waiting list because i don't already own a toyota. the waiting list will open to the public soon though.
i was part of a group promoting the gm chevy volt and did some work to actually get the car built. glad it did get built but those are hard to get too.
these cars really need to be available without having to go through a bunch of random hoops if they want them to really work for the mass public.
but either way, it's still an ICE etc. i didn't necessarily want to go out and buy another car but oh well.
i think EVs will work for about 90% of the driving out there. i mostly just drive back and forth from work and then go places on weekends. i rarely need to go 300+ miles in a single day. for those times, i could probably just rent an ICE car if needed. EVs definitely have a place. i wish battery technology would improve though.
so yeah, a nissan leaf would have been ok. but i'm also not the type to get on a long waiting list and hope to get a car. i tried to get a leaf but nobody had them in stock and the only ones that said that they were getting some said that it goes to the guys on their waiting list first.
toyota is coming out with the EV prius but there's a waiting list for that too. heck, i couldn't even get on the waiting list because i don't already own a toyota. the waiting list will open to the public soon though.
i was part of a group promoting the gm chevy volt and did some work to actually get the car built. glad it did get built but those are hard to get too.
these cars really need to be available without having to go through a bunch of random hoops if they want them to really work for the mass public.
grindz145
1 MW
Chump.
oatnet
1 MW
Unfortunately, manufacturers and consumers are trying to slot the EV as a direct replacement for ICE. To succeed, the general public will have to see EV's as an alternative to, not a replacement for, ICE. Currently available battery chemistries don't have the energy density/price point/rapid charge abilities to replace ICE for long range or heavy hauling. In addition, the charging infrastructure is not pervasive enough to extend the range. Despite these challanges, that still makes them a viable alternative for at least 60% of the road traffic in the US.
I personally believe the demand reflected in Gasoline prices is a barometer of the Global Economy's health, and that the first sign of global recovery will be gas prices shooting through the roof. If alternatives are available when that happens, consumers may re-evaluate how much extra they are willing to pay to drive a vehicle that could take them cross country, when they only drive 30 miles a day, and as RVD mentions they could rent a car for longer trips.
Further, to use a lighter chassis to extend range, EV's are being built into ICE econoboxes. The Leaf, for example, is really a $15k Nissan Versa. We really needed ground-up fresh approaches like the Aptera that leverage the benefits of an electric drivetrain, aerodynamics, and advanced materials, instead of squeezing it into traditional heavy ICE chassis. Till then, I think the general public will have trouble differentiating EV's from NEVs like GEM and Think. Folks that want luxury cars, the ones with cash to spend on new technologies, don't have much to choose from. They may not fit into a Tesla :lol:, maybe Fiskar will help, but hybrids are really their only alternative to having luxury while giving a nod towards being green.
Since I am commuting on my Vectrix, I think that the motorcycle format is the way of the future. To me, one of the biggest deterrents is competing for space with multi-ton ICEs - very much the same problem the 70's Honda CVCC had with the giant steel boatmobiles that Detroit was pumping out at them time. As energy costs soar, and we progress towards lighter vehicles, this objection will evaporate. In addition, as we try to fit a growing population on existing infrastructure, Motos will let more people fit on the roads. Reverse tadpoles like the MP3 or Aptera will give stability to folks that need it, and enclosures for regions that don't have the year-round riding weather we enjoy here in LA.
-JD
PS - RVD, Given that runaway throttle is what caused you to pause on eBikes, I am suprised you considered a Toyota/Lexus. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I personally believe the demand reflected in Gasoline prices is a barometer of the Global Economy's health, and that the first sign of global recovery will be gas prices shooting through the roof. If alternatives are available when that happens, consumers may re-evaluate how much extra they are willing to pay to drive a vehicle that could take them cross country, when they only drive 30 miles a day, and as RVD mentions they could rent a car for longer trips.
Further, to use a lighter chassis to extend range, EV's are being built into ICE econoboxes. The Leaf, for example, is really a $15k Nissan Versa. We really needed ground-up fresh approaches like the Aptera
that leverage the benefits of an electric drivetrain, aerodynamics, and advanced materials, instead of squeezing it into traditional heavy ICE chassis. Till then, I think the general public will have trouble differentiating EV's from NEVs like GEM and Think. Folks that want luxury cars, the ones with cash to spend on new technologies, don't have much to choose from. They may not fit into a Tesla :lol:, maybe Fiskar will help, but hybrids are really their only alternative to having luxury while giving a nod towards being green.Since I am commuting on my Vectrix, I think that the motorcycle format is the way of the future. To me, one of the biggest deterrents is competing for space with multi-ton ICEs - very much the same problem the 70's Honda CVCC had with the giant steel boatmobiles that Detroit was pumping out at them time. As energy costs soar, and we progress towards lighter vehicles, this objection will evaporate. In addition, as we try to fit a growing population on existing infrastructure, Motos will let more people fit on the roads. Reverse tadpoles like the MP3 or Aptera will give stability to folks that need it, and enclosures for regions that don't have the year-round riding weather we enjoy here in LA.
-JD
PS - RVD, Given that runaway throttle is what caused you to pause on eBikes, I am suprised you considered a Toyota/Lexus. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Gordo
100 kW
Enjoy your Beemer 
I surprised AJ hasn't trotted out his "chestbeating frockwits" or some other witticism.
I surprised AJ hasn't trotted out his "chestbeating frockwits" or some other witticism.
vanilla ice
1 MW
The e38 was the last 7 that didn't suck..
oatnet said:Further, to use a lighter chassis to extend range, EV's are being built into ICE econoboxes. The Leaf, for example, is really a $15k Nissan Versa. We really needed ground-up fresh approaches like the Aptera
That's true for the majority of EVs as they're trying to bring the R&D cost down. The Tesla Model S is all custom and pretty much 90% aluminum, it's pretty amazing. You should have a Tesla store in your area being in SoCal, i saw the chassis in Denver, CO. about 4 days ago. I urge you to check it out.
Fisker is the least green 'alternative' car i've ever heard of. Over 5000lbs ( how the ever loving ****? ), 20mpg on the gas extender, and 32 mile electric range coming out of a 22kWh battery ( for reference, the Leaf gets 75-100 miles out of 24kWh ), and the price.. It basically qualifies for a gas guzzler tax, and if there was such a thing as a watt guzzler tax, that would apply as well. I don't see the green appeal there at all, might as well get a gas car.
dnmun
1 PW
if i were to purchase a new vehicle now, i would buy the honda civic CNG because it is now clear that the infrastructure is gonna be built out to support them. a number of states are creating CNG corridors for use by traveling public so now you can drive from denver to LA and soon from denver to portland on I84, and there are CNG filling spots opening in louisiana and arkansas and texas around the haynesville shale.
i think eventually we will see CNG civic hybrids too.
but i am really bummed at missing that honda insight at the car auction yesterday. $3600 is about 30% of the current market value here in portland. i bet it was just batteries because of the age, 87k miles is unreal though.
i think eventually we will see CNG civic hybrids too.
but i am really bummed at missing that honda insight at the car auction yesterday. $3600 is about 30% of the current market value here in portland. i bet it was just batteries because of the age, 87k miles is unreal though.
RVD
1 kW
lol JD...that whole toyota/lexus thing was a farse. but it worked...my mother in law insisted on buying a honda accord over a toyota camry because of what she saw on the news.
i don't generally buy toyota/honda/etc because they're japanese cars. i just don't like japanese cars (maybe it has to do with growing up in korea listening to all of the hardship at the hands of the imperial army). i suppose german isn't any better though. up until a few years ago, always bought american (also grew up in detroit in the late 70s and early 80s during the vincent chin incident).
in any case, it just seems stupid to use the energy required to push a 1-2 ton piece of steel machinery to move my 180 pound (er...maybe 190 now?) frame back and forth to my office. vectrix and ebikes are a much nicer model.
i actually wrote up this point to say that i was a bit disappointed that i broke down and bought an ICE car. oh well...i actually didn't think i'd last 3 months without a car (and neither did my friends...they all thought i'd buy a car within a month) but 1 year will be a good start.
i don't generally buy toyota/honda/etc because they're japanese cars. i just don't like japanese cars (maybe it has to do with growing up in korea listening to all of the hardship at the hands of the imperial army). i suppose german isn't any better though. up until a few years ago, always bought american (also grew up in detroit in the late 70s and early 80s during the vincent chin incident).
in any case, it just seems stupid to use the energy required to push a 1-2 ton piece of steel machinery to move my 180 pound (er...maybe 190 now?) frame back and forth to my office. vectrix and ebikes are a much nicer model.
i actually wrote up this point to say that i was a bit disappointed that i broke down and bought an ICE car. oh well...i actually didn't think i'd last 3 months without a car (and neither did my friends...they all thought i'd buy a car within a month) but 1 year will be a good start.
RVD
1 kW
btw, a throttle malfunction so that you're at WOT no matter what you do...is freaking scary.
RVD said:
What exactly then, were you thinking when you decided on a very large 4800lb. car?
Be honest with us, it sounds like you sooorrrta care about your environmental impact, so this choice is quite a bit weird. Were you drunk at the time? :lol:
Sunder
10 MW
The only thing I'm jealous of is the price tag. RRP here in Australia is about $150k AUD - or about $160ish K USD, if the recent weakness in the Aussie doesn't continue.
I also agree with Oatnet - Some of us are secure enough in our success, to be happy for other people in their success. I often have an extremely tight budget for bike stuff. I live in a modest apartment, and drive... Oh, okay, my car is not so modest - It's not a BMW 7 series, but a Mazda 6 MPS (Mazdaspeed in the US) is not a bad car - everyone needs one indulgence right? Looking at us, few people would know how much my wife and I earn.
I also agree with Oatnet - Some of us are secure enough in our success, to be happy for other people in their success. I often have an extremely tight budget for bike stuff. I live in a modest apartment, and drive... Oh, okay, my car is not so modest - It's not a BMW 7 series, but a Mazda 6 MPS (Mazdaspeed in the US) is not a bad car - everyone needs one indulgence right? Looking at us, few people would know how much my wife and I earn.
biohazardman
100 kW
Congrats on your new transportation sound like a nice one for sure. I have been carless for two or three months now. Well almost have a 76 MG Midget that sits the garage with the motor I rebuilt nine years back in front of it. Keep thinking I will get it in there some day but the HCV says NOT. Sounds like you have lots of fun coming yer way enjoy it.
Hillhater
100 TW
for the public to change their view of EV's ,..will take time, possibly generations.oatnet said:
In the meantime the best chance for EV success is for them to conform to the accepted vehicle concept,..as the Leaf, focusE, etc are doing, then, over time, " progressively" change to a more optimised concept .
The "Trike" configuration of many of these EV projects is merely a way of avoiding construction & use regulations and simplify construction. Those same ideas have been employed before and failed to gain popular acceptance for general use.
..There is a reason for those "traditional heavy ICE chassis".. much of it is due to legislated safety requirements, and the rest is due to consumer demand for creature comforts.. ( power windows, seats, AC, soundproofing, etc etc.)oatnet said:.... We really needed ground-up fresh approaches like the Aptera
...oatnet said:
..Possibly, for some, but it wont work in Alaska, or even NY in January, and is very much a retro step for many who have become used to simple, safe, dry personal transport.
In summary, if EV's are to make any serious progress, they are going to have to conform to current expectations that the public is prepared to buy in large quantities, otherwise it will remain a niche market for extroverts littered with failed "dream-mobile" projects !
vanilla ice
1 MW
Have you test driven it a decent amount of miles? Do you like the way it drives?
sk8norcal
1 MW
RVD said:
To me that's not really 100% carless, when you borrow your wife's car whenever its convenient...
but that's still pretty good for being in SoCal.... :wink:
a friend of mine got the motorcycle bug and has commuted all year on it,
he tells people he doesn't own a car... a real hard core motorcyclist...
and yet there is a minivan in his garage that he used to haul his kids around on the weekends....
and the wifey drives a porsche... 8)
grindz145
1 MW
You're the man Oatnet. Screw cars. We don't need half as many as we have.
For the price of that bimmer, you could have got some amazingly lustworthy usable 2 wheel rolling artwork. Instead you have a boring vehicle, that will not improve your life in any meaningful way, while sucking your finances dry.
For the price of that bimmer, you could have got some amazingly lustworthy usable 2 wheel rolling artwork. Instead you have a boring vehicle, that will not improve your life in any meaningful way, while sucking your finances dry.
TylerDurden
100 GW
Another ES member has a Leaf. I'm looking forward to reviews on both cars and the ones to follow.
nicobie
100 MW
I'm with Dennis on this.
I would already own one of those Honda LNG civics if could have found a dealer that would have sold one to me a year ago when I was in the market for an econo box..
It by far makes the most sense for a car right now.
I would already own one of those Honda LNG civics if could have found a dealer that would have sold one to me a year ago when I was in the market for an econo box..
It by far makes the most sense for a car right now.
