I broke down...bought a car.

[dnmun]

You're the man Oatnet. Screw cars. We don't need half as many as we have.

For the price of that bimmer, you could have got some amazingly lustworthy usable 2 wheel rolling artwork. Instead you have a boring vehicle, that will not improve your life in any meaningful way, while sucking your finances dry.

hey, that's lame to diss the guy because he bot what he wanted. it's one thing to opine, but no need to be gross.

hybrids are gonna be the norm, so variety is the spice of the EV future. we all chase our own dreams.

 

[vanilla ice]

I've got nothing against a well designed and constructed car regardless of segment, but I've got to opine this one like I sees it. Late model 7's are saddled with the wacky iDrive controls, Benglesed up styling, schizo throttle pedal, idiotic shift logic, and counter-intuitive controls all round, not just on the iSystem. Seriously, you will NEED one of your kids around to get the climate control dialed in. And with the crazy throttle and shifting it feels like its got the low rpm response of an economy four cylinder. Its a ton heavier than it needs to be to handle like a real bimmer, and the price is twice what its worth. Biggest turd barge out there imo. BMW still makes decent smaller cars, but with the 7 its like they built a wannbe merc or lex and got it totally wrong. There are much better options in the big luxury cruiser segment.

 

[dnmun]

my point was it is crude and rude to diss the guy because he bot a car you would not.

he made it clear he wanted a beemer and this was the hybrid offered. he even said he thought about the volt and the prius.

it just adds to the spread of hybrids we can hear about so having you guys just trash his purchase does not accomplish anything except prove how insensitive you are to other people. stupid rude is how i would view it.

it should be obvious it is not a financial problem for him, maybe for you, but that is not his fault.

you guys can go do something to make the dough it takes to buy one. then you can play your social games, not just be resentful because he made it and you did not.

 

[vanilla ice]

Intention wasn't to be a jackass. I have a family member who got one and I told him the same as I wrote above. He loves the thing. If thats him, more power to him.

 

[chroot]

Congrats on new BMW 7 series hybrid. I do drive a Jeep Cherokee rig gives me 13MPG with the 4x4 heavier nearly 4000 lbs. I use it when the weather is rainy or super cold subzero. It's no fun riding a ebike in that condition at 2AM commuter to my UPS work.

 

[oatnet]

.... We really needed ground-up fresh approaches like the Aptera that leverage the benefits of an electric drivetrain, aerodynamics, and advanced materials, instead of squeezing it into traditional heavy ICE chassis.

There is a reason for those "traditional heavy ICE chassis".. much of it is due to legislated safety requirements...

Much of the weight is needed to carry a mammoth, vibrating ICE, the tranny, and differential. A RWD reverse trike eliminates a lot of that mass, even more so if it is a hub motor. Eliminate the mass, and you eliminate the mass of the structural components to support it, stop it, and protect it. Further, much of the 'legislated safety requirements' are needed to sharing the road with 2-ton ICE's. Finally, the Aptera met safety requirements with advanced composites.

I agree with your point that this isn't going to happen overnight, but the last gas spike was enough to change public opinion enough to generate widespread interest/demand in Hybrids. Around here, people were bemused with the Prius, but when gas spiked the streets were flooded with them. Notice how demand is so high, that RVD points out how limited his access and choices were? If the global economy recovers, and the Asia Pacific economy takes off, it is my personal opinion the next gas spike could be severe enough to make an even greater shift in public opinion.

However, I disagree that electric cars need to be tailored to fit current public opinion, that EVs should be built as direct replacements for ICEs, because until the energy density in cells is equivalent to gas, there will always be unfortunate tradeoffs that can diminish the build to failure.

lol JD...that whole toyota/lexus thing was a farse. but it worked...my mother in law insisted on buying a honda accord over a toyota camry because of what she saw on the news.

i don't generally buy toyota/honda/etc because they're japanese cars. i just don't like japanese cars (maybe it has to do with growing up in korea listening to all of the hardship at the hands of the imperial army).

ROFL my MIL insisted my wife NOT buy the RAV4 V6 we settled on for her. Bbecause of that and because my wife does not like to disappoint, we got her a CRV instead, which is not as fast but a good choice too - I've been a Honda man since my first CRX showed me what trouble-free driving was about. Japan did some nasty nasty stuff to Korea, Tawain, heck even China - but IMO throughout history human beings are demonstrated they can be quite unkind to each other, as well as the earth, so it is sorta par for the course. Civilization is an affectation of the rich and free.

And for folks bashing cars, you know I am about as green a commuter as it gets, and I have 6 years of it under my belt, its a pretty short list of folks here who can say the same. Since 2006, when weather permits I commute on eMoto or eBike, but still I can't seem to let go of my Honda s2000 (pictured below). It mostly just sits in the garage, because an s2000 can be a beast in the rain, and when whether keeps me from 2-wheeled transport, I usually drive the 16 year old civic my wife FINALLY upgraded from last year. It makes no sense, but I guess it is the fullfillment of a dirt-poor childhood dream, so I keep renewing the registration. I would have given it up its spot in the garage for an Aptera, though.

-JD

 

[neptronix]

Congrats on new BMW 7 series hybrid. I do drive a Jeep Cherokee rig gives me 13MPG with the 4x4 heavier nearly 4000 lbs. I use it when the weather is rainy or super cold subzero. It's no fun riding a ebike in that condition at 2AM commuter to my UPS work.

The saudi oil masters salute you.

I've got a 4 cylinder Nissan 200SX SE-R that gets driven during heavy rain, only because i don't want my hub motor rusting out. Otherwise in the snow or crazy cold temp, i bundle up and just ride the eBike like a real man.

It is a pain in the ass to warm up an internal combustion engine, get it hot enough to defrost itself and/or scrape off the ice, then deal with the visibility issues of snow / rain. One day i want a fully waterproof eBike setup, then i can ride 100% of the year..

Cage free is the way to be..

 

[chroot]

Sure, They salute me for being paying them for the oils.

My wish is........ an E-Tracer 8)

The all-electric X-Prize-winning "cabin motorcycle" that averages 205.3 miles per gallon equivalent.

[youtube]xzK012GjjX4[/youtube]

The saudi oil masters salute you.

 

[oatnet]

Sure, They salute me for being paying them for the oils.

My wish is........ an E-Tracer 8)

The all-electric X-Prize-winning "cabin motorcycle" that averages 205.3 miles per gallon equivalent.

I'd buy that, or a Carver/Venture1/Persu, or any number of prototypes, if they start manufacture, or I could even buy the prototype...

 

[Hillhater]

Much of the weight is needed to carry a mammoth, vibrating ICE, the tranny, and differential. A RWD reverse trike eliminates a lot of that mass, even more so if it is a hub motor. Eliminate the mass, and you eliminate the mass of the structural components to support it, stop it, and protect it. Further, much of the 'legislated safety requirements' are needed to sharing the road with 2-ton ICE's. Finally, the Aptera met safety requirements with advanced composites.

I suspect you are overlooking the weight of a 100mile range battery pack !
( note: the Nissan Leaf is 600lbs heavier than its ICE equivalent ! )

I dont know, but strongly suspect, the Aptera was not tested against the same requirements as production 4 wheel ICE's
( possibly tested to motorbike regs ??)

 

[RVD]

JD, is that Palos Verdes? I ride my bike up that road most weekends (road bike though). Definitely one of my favorite rides in the area. Some decent hill climbing too.

 

[oatnet]

Much of the weight is needed to carry a mammoth, vibrating ICE, the tranny, and differential. A RWD reverse trike eliminates a lot of that mass, even more so if it is a hub motor. Eliminate the mass, and you eliminate the mass of the structural components to support it, stop it, and protect it.

I suspect you are overlooking the weight of a 100mile range battery pack !

I didn't overlook it at all. The whole point of my inital post was to NOT build EVs with a 100 mile pack they don't need. Not sure how you missed that.

I dont know, but strongly suspect, the Aptera was not tested against the same requirements as production 4 wheel ICE's
( possibly tested to motorbike regs ??)

I choose to know before I comment. Research the Aptera's construction, and you will dispel your concerns about crash worthiness.

JD, is that Palos Verdes? I ride my bike up that road most weekends (road bike though). Definitely one of my favorite rides in the area. Some decent hill climbing too.

Good eye, that is Malaga Cove in PV, one of my favorites spots in the world, and that is one tough hill right past that bend. I started a few s2000 group runs from here too:

-JD

 

[motorino magnet]

End of the day She is a beautiful car-ya paid too much ,friend o mine is getting one for 87 Can-but shes a beautiful girl and i would love to Link her bomb-Desiree's???

I cat amigimomune jumpinukng in and letting he retake me for a ride Bobby???!!!!!!

 

[Lock]

"The typical American male devotes more than 1,600 hours a year to his car.
SNIP
And this figure does not take account of the time consumed by other activities dictated by transport:
SNIP

I chuckle when I read reports about how much of car traffic isn't going anywhere but just circling looking for a parking space on roads and in parking lots...

Anywhooo... Interesting how I couldn't find any info about the pack other than 120 volt "lithium-ion". No Wh/Ah mentioned in specs anywhere... Lots of details about the gas motor, volume of trunk space, etc but zip about the cell chemistry, cooling... not EVen warranty info on the pack. Sorta like buying a car and not knowing what kind of tires it comes with? Perhaps most buyers won't know or care.

L0cK

 

[motorino magnet]

.

 

[motorino magnet]

.

 

[vanilla ice]

As long as they choose a GOOD million dollar race boat and not a crap one I wont be the one shitting on them.

I'm sure he's got a thick skin otherwise he wouldn't be posting this here.

 

[RVD]

JD, I ride my road bike up that road around once/month or so. The climb after that part of Malaga Cove is ok. I usually go up PV Drive East to come back home (after passing Trump, Terranea, etc.) but sometimes I go up Hawthorne if I'm in a rush and that's a tough climb. The hardest though is going up the top of Crest road after PV Drive East. I don't do that though...too hard for me.

On the Tour De Cure (Long Beach ADA ride), last year I rode the metric century. There was a street in PV (Anchovy) that was pretty crazy too...avg 8% grade.

Do you ever take the e-bikes up there? I don't know if I'd have enough juice to go the 30 miles or so that it is round trip from my house. I'd also be afraid of overheating the motor. Seems like on the steeps, most of the power just goes straight to heat...

 

[oatnet]

Do you ever take the e-bikes up there? I don't know if I'd have enough juice to go the 30 miles or so that it is round trip from my house. I'd also be afraid of overheating the motor. Seems like on the steeps, most of the power just goes straight to heat...

I only take ebikes as far as the top of Malaga - I don't trust drivers on the mix of beautiful views and sharp curves beyond. :lol: OTOH if you count the Vectrix as an eBike, when I had to range-test the 7.4kw pack I installed, I went around PV to Wayfarer's Cathedral, then came up to Hawthorne and up that hill to see how it would do on loooong Steeeep slope, and past the Avenues, and then all around Torrance. I keep meaning to try the Vectrix on hill up the North side of Hawthorne, I think that side is even steeper. I don't have the skills to take flog it through my favorite local stretch of road to drift the s2000 through sideways - aka "The PV Twisties" but I keep thinking about it:

 

[REdiculous]

Instead of 1 car, why not get like 10 Nissans?....the MSRP for the base model Versa is only $11k.

I sort of get the luxury part of it, but I don't see how there could be that much luxury-value hidden in a car.....does it come with a year's supply of hookers and blow, or what? :lol:

I think it's an odd choice, but I hope it works out well for you anyway.

 

[nathandance1996]

Internal combustion still rocks this world.
Battery powered rigs have a long ways to go.

...well said, could not agree more

KiM

you only have to look at any ragone plot to understand why, electric is either low power density or low energy density, I.C.E's are high in both energy and power density. I am not sure whether electric vehicles are ever going to be practical for aircraft, as a gas turbine has the same amount of moving parts as an electric motor and batteries are limited by the fact that they are not like fuel tanks, they are more like electric engines, that supply power, where's a fuel tank can quickly be drained. if someone could synthesise methane using electricity then the pollution problem will be solved. I'd rather have a little carbon monoxide in the air than lead, mercury, cadmium, and phosphates near me. we need clean fuel, electric's just cannot replace combustion. it's simplicity is a huge advantage

 

[RVD]

Instead of 1 car, why not get like 10 Nissans?....the MSRP for the base model Versa is only $11k.

I sort of get the luxury part of it, but I don't see how there could be that much luxury-value hidden in a car.....does it come with a year's supply of hookers and blow, or what? :lol:

I think it's an odd choice, but I hope it works out well for you anyway.

Oh it's definitely a diminishing rate of return...but life is kind of like that I suppose.

I don't know if a Honda Accord is really worth 2X of a Versa or if a BMW 3 series is worth 4X of a Versa, etc.

But I'll sort of put it this way for the frugal side of me. For the deal that I got, I'm paying about $100 more per month than our BMW 128i convertible. The 750i AH is about 3X the price of our 128i so part of the reason was the deal. It's also almost 1/2 what I paid a few years ago from my 2006 750Li. So one reason for buying the car was that it was just a hard deal to pass up and I also caved into peer pressure of "what do you mean you and your wife share 1 car?"

In case anyone is actually interested (guessing most aren't): http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584523

RVD.

 

[neptronix]

For $560/mo, the people around you will stop looking down at you for carpooling.

Spent the majority of my life near Southern California, and 3 years in LA. I never understood the mentality of your native peoples

 

[Joseph C.]

I don't jump in and tell them that they have taste in their ass.

Oooh I think I may use that line in future.

 

[neptronix]

Instead of 1 car, why not get like 10 Nissans?....the MSRP for the base model Versa is only $11k.

I recently bought 2 nissans for $3000 in total, both in perfect working order. Lol. '94 Maxima with 160k on it ( the engine is finally broken in ), and '96 200SX SE-R with 220k on the clock ( prolly got about 80k of life left in it and anything past that is a bonus. )

The definition of value is a super reliable Japanese car from the 1990's that nobody thinks is worth anything at all.

I was pretty shocked when i found out what various parts cost for these cars. I had owned a BMW 3 series prior to purchasing the Nissans.

The best part is that they're so ugly, nobody wants to steal them. And i have no problem staying monogamous while driving one.