I waant to go LiPo!

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Guys,

I have searched and searched and there is so much confusing info on LiPo.

I can't seem to find the information I'm looking for.

I want a 36 volt or possibly 52 volt 10-12 amp LiPo, I want to be able to charge the pack as one big pack and not have to break it down into small packs for charging. I'm confused hearing about series and parallel charging etc.

I would also like if someone could maybe create a diagram of connecting the different packs together.

Fast charging in an hour would be nice, So information on suitable chargers and psu's would be nice too!

Also, is it worth ordering from hobbyking into Europe, or is there decent suppliers here?

I wonder if someone could create a sticky, maybe called, ( building 36-52 volt 10-20 LiPo pack) as this information would be helpful for people like me wanting to go LiPo and it might save endless hours of scattered posts on LiPo and endless hours of searching.

There is lots of useful information but basically I think what's needed is a guide on building packs, rather than LiPo V LiFeP04 debate over and over!

What do people think?

And I appreciate anyone willing to devote time to this!


Mark

 

[theRealFury]

Hey,

I too have been looking into Lipo for my next build. Although im going for a different approach to you i think i can advise on the kind of things you would need.

for battery, your best bet for a ~36v setup would be something like 2 or 3x http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=14609

For connecting these you would need something like http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10265 (Obviously you would need to get the ones with the type of conenctors you want to use.

And also you would require balance cable connector such as http://www.progressiverc.com/index.php/parallel-splitter-jst-xh.html for both charging and using the Lipo.

As for charing this... you would need something like http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6609 and note that you need a 12-18v power supply to run the charger, they can be found on Ebay. this charger will charge 2 of the above batteries in about 1 and a half hours if they are well balanced.

If your wanting to go with the higher voltage 52v? than things will start to get more complicated for wiring up and charging and im not confident enough to go into that myself until i have done it haha . So unless your wanting to break up your pack to charge or spend lots of time making custom harnesses then id stick with the above type of setup.

as for the sticky. there are already quite a few stickies on going Lipo as well as non sticky threads on this so take a look at them. If there was a sticky for every different voltage or charing setup going then we would have pages of them

Ohh and one final note... the above items are examples only and i have no experience with any of them so i can not quote on quality. I have given these based on what i beleive to be compatible to make a kit as you need so id double check before buiying any of them to make sure they will work out for you.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi therealfury

Thanks for the reply,

I have searched through the forum, there is so much info on LiPo, I have been researching it for months and I'm still clueless!!! LOL

I'm just afraid of doing something stupid and wasting money and I haven't found any "clear" instructions as how to connect up each pack to make the required voltage capacity etc, then charging, do I have to split each pack up and charge each separately?

I've grasped the idea of paralleling 2x 5 amp packs will give me 10 amps etc, or series will give me 2x voltage, it's when you have to connect a whole bunch together to make 52 volts is where it gets confusing!

One thing I think for sure is the Hyperion chargers are best and can charge very fast, though at great expense!

I'm used to ping and their simplicity of plug and forget, and what a battery it was too! I hammered the 20 amp pulling 40 amps regularly with no balancing issues at all.

What attracts me to lipo is I can make a smaller pack and build up as I go along, or if 1 pack dies a replacement is relatively cheap.

Ping's are really good and I highly recommend them, however they are very heavy at 9.9 kg's for 20 amp, and really now I'm just looking for a bike that will just get me up hills or assist through some of the crazy wind we can get here. I sold my last kit with the ping and am enjoying exercising again, hence the need for only 5-10 amps now!

I think for simplicity I shall go with 36 ish volts I was thinking 2 of these

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9180

4 would give me 44 volts and plenty for cell_man's mac 500, (when he gets the new gears) if ever!
I could even start off with 2 for 5 amps and see how far it will get me! only thing is with LiPo I believe you have to charge to no more than 95 %? meaning I will probably get less than 5 amps?

I could get 2 more eventually and make 10 amps when I get more cash, and charging might be easier!

I just need to get started and not be scared of batteries LOL, (I've seen some fairly burned fingers!)

Forgive the long post, I obviously have a lot to learn!

Mark

 

[wesnewell]

I want a 36 volt or possibly 52 volt 10-12 amp LiPo, I want to be able to charge the pack as one big pack and not have to break it down into small packs for charging. I'm confused hearing about series and parallel charging etc.

Lipo can be configured any way you want it. For a 36V system with standard controller, a 10s lipo pack is probably the most common, which provides 37V nominal and 42V fully charged. Assuming you mean you want 10-12ah. and not 10-12 amp output which isn't enough, this could be done with a 10s2p pack. Using 4 5000mah 15C lipo packs this would provide up to 150A continuous, and ~250A burst output. Close to 10 times what most 36V systems would require. That's why it doesn't make much sense to me to buy the higher C rated lipos for an ebike. Only high performance RC models can take advantage of high C ratings.

For a 48V system with standard controller, the choices become more complicated. A 13s pack puts you right at 48.1V nominal, but that leaves you with mixed sizes, so many use 12s packs for 44.4V nominal and 50.4V fully charged. Personally, I didn't like that option so went to a 14s pack which is probably the highest I'd recommend for a standard 48V controller. Some have blown their controllers with 15s because of the 63V output of a 15S pack. 14s provides 51.8V nominal and 58.8V fully charged. The higher V will give you a little faster top end and the extra 2 cells ~15% more range in a 1p pack.

I would also like if someone could maybe create a diagram of connecting the different packs together.

3s-3s=6s. Seriously, the number of cells doesn't really matter. This site should answer your questions about configuring packs.

http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/lipo.html

Fast charging in an hour would be nice, So information on suitable chargers and psu's would be nice too!

Lipo recommended charge rate is 1C for most of them, however, most now support a 2C charge rate with some supporting up to 6C. My 15C Zippys support a 2C charge rate, so I could charge my 5ah 14s1p pack at 10A. A 10ah 14s2p pack at 20A, etc. At a 2C charge rate, it would take about 20 minutes to fully charge a pack. Even at 1C, it takes less than an hour for a complete full charge. But, this all depends on the charger equipment and how you charge. Using the little charger that came with my motor kit would probably take 2 hours for a full charge.

[/quote]Also, is it worth ordering from hobbyking into Europe, or is there decent suppliers here?[/quote]
This, I wouldn't know. I ordered from the US warehouse.

I wonder if someone could create a sticky, maybe called, ( building 36-52 volt 10-20 LiPo pack) as this information would be helpful for people like me wanting to go LiPo and it might save endless hours of scattered posts on LiPo and endless hours of searching.

A good idea, although considering the vast versatility of lipo packs, I'm not sure it's feasible.

 

[wesnewell]

Something I forgot. In most cases you do not have to break down the pack to charge it. I charge my 14s pack in series to 58V. You can do the same with any pack with the right stuff.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Thanks for the reply wesnewell.

I think I'm slowly getting the charging.

ok I think to charge them all together I need to hook them all up as parallel, with no series configuration so basically I'd be connecting the batteries as 22 volts each and not 44 volts but with much greater capacity? I also have to parallel all the balance wires. Am I right so far?

That still means I have to disconnect wires every time I want to charge, but at least it allows me to charge all together?

Does anyone think I would be better off going for the turnigy nano or the cheaper zippy? I could make a really cheap 10 amp pack with the zippy!


Mark

 

[dogman dan]

You have noticed this thread perhaps? http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=19956

It's in the new sticky thread FAQ's. Lots of noob questions answered. A lot of you want to know the one best way to do lipo. Sorry, but there is a zillion good ways to do the lipo configurations. So the one best way has not sorted out yet. The beauty of lipo is that you get to configure it to best suit your needs.

12s is a great voltage for lipo, but it's not 36v. It's about halfway between 36v and 48v, so make sure your new controller can hack that before buying 6s packs. Good choice because you get a nice perky pack without three sets of batteries.
14s is spot on exactly like a 48v pingbattery, except it will won't lose so much surface charge at the start of the ride.
10s is very close to regular 36v.

Charging can be done with a good 14s charger such as the hyperion, but really, to seperate one lousy paralell connector to charge the 6s packs is NOT hard. Surely you can reconnect one single series connection without mishap. Adapters can be made to make that process foolproof. One hour charging of a 5 ah 12s pack is definitely possible with a 300 watt charger, or two 150 watt chargers like I use, and one 350 watt meanwell or equivilant power supply.

Edit, Sigh, looks like a lot of the pics are still gone from many of the good how to threads. Maybe I'll repost some of that stuff, but right now the death race is two weeks away.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Dogman thanks for the reply,

to be honest, I have gone through so many threads maybe too much information, maybe the only way to learn is to buy a few batteries and learn, I suppose experience is the best teacher!

I may have a few burned fingers and a burned down house, but at least I will have learned what not to do again!

I appreciate all the advice!


Mark

 

[neptronix]

I may have a few burned fingers and a burned down house, but at least I will have learned what not to do again!

That's the spirit, LOL

If you're going 10S-14S, you will have an easy time charging.
However on a DD hub motor you may not be happy with 10S so you need more voltage.
On my MAC motor i run fairly high amps ( 30-42a ) so 10S is OK for me as it will do 25-29mph.
On a DD motor like the 9C knockoff that ampedbikes/ebikekit sells, you're looking at more like 20-23mph.

10S is 38v nominal.
12s is 45.6v nominal.
14s is 53.2v nominal.

That's at 3.8v per cell nominal as hobbyking lipo is a bit underrated in it's nominal voltage.

Here's my process for charging 10S:

Want more AH than that, then connect more batteries in parallel.

 

[DOMEPEACE]

Hi Guys,

I have searched and searched and there is so much confusing info on LiPo.

I can't seem to find the information I'm looking for.

I want a 36 volt or possibly 52 volt 10-12 amp LiPo, I want to be able to charge the pack as one big pack and not have to break it down into small packs for charging. I'm confused hearing about series and parallel charging etc.

I would also like if someone could maybe create a diagram of connecting the different packs together.

Fast charging in an hour would be nice, So information on suitable chargers and psu's would be nice too!

Also, is it worth ordering from hobbyking into Europe, or is there decent suppliers here?

I wonder if someone could create a sticky, maybe called, ( building 36-52 volt 10-20 LiPo pack) as this information would be helpful for people like me wanting to go LiPo and it might save endless hours of scattered posts on LiPo and endless hours of searching.

There is lots of useful information but basically I think what's needed is a guide on building packs, rather than LiPo V LiFeP04 debate over and over!

What do people think?

And I appreciate anyone willing to devote time to this!


Mark

36v range is great there are a wide array of parts in this 26.4v-41.1v range (8s-12s lipo). im assuming you already know the properties of series and parallel(series=volts parallel=amps), the little s means series (8 x 3.3v = 26.4v) and of course p means parallel (5000mah x 10 = 50Ah or 50,000mah). now lipos have a minimum voltage per cell(which i believe to be 3.3v(li-xx) and 3.2v LiFePO4) dropping any individual cell below this point is a quick way to kill your battery(<500cycles!), they also have a maximum voltage(i believe 3.7v for all Li-chem) overcharging them is dangerous, and can cause explosion, but most li-xx are very tolerant nowadays(a single 5.0Ah 3.3v cell needs to be charged to over 5.5v to explode!). charging and balancing are key with lipos as they do not work together as effectively as NI-xx, i cant tell you exactly how because this is something i don't fully understand either! usually people break their packs down smaller so they can charge quicker with less voltage. (there are at least 20+ excellent 6s li-xx chargers out there for less than $300) the bigger your single pack, the more massive your charger will be, it seems that(aside from low voltage -12v) your charger is going to be roughly 5 times the size and weight of your batteries. current draw gets rediculous when your trying to charge a 72v 50Ah pack at 2c!(72 x 50 = 3600 x 2 = 7200 watts!) a normal 110v US ac wont put out that kind of power! a normal US home uses triple that a DAY! having the ability to break down your pack makes wiring way more complicated, but way more user friendly(ever tried balancing a 20s pack??).

i would also like wiring diagrams and charger lists, especially if they evolve with the forum on a sticky thread. wiring diagrams with different S and P ratings would be nice. <- dome's 10s10p screw up lol
hobbyking has the cheapest prices on the net, and the net has the cheapest prices in the world. i dunno how much it is to ship across the pond tho.
i think this should be a sticky as well, that the 100GW users can demolish with information.
LOVE TO THE EU! YOU GUYS THROW MAD RAVES! ONE LOVE!

 

[wesnewell]

ok I think to charge them all together I need to hook them all up as parallel, with no series configuration so basically I'd be connecting the batteries as 22 volts each and not 44 volts but with much greater capacity? I also have to parallel all the balance wires. Am I right so far?

With a 10s (or more) charger, you could leave them in series and charge them as a single pack. With a 6s charger, you could charge them a couple of different ways. Either all four at once using parallel charge cables, or as 2 separate 5s2p packs.

That still means I have to disconnect wires every time I want to charge, but at least it allows me to charge all together?

With a 10s charger you'd charge as is. Otherwise you'd have to reconfigure charge all four at once. If you got a 42V PSU, you could use that to charge all at once too, but you'd need to check balance every so often. Some say every 10 charges, and some rarely ever do it. A good pack not over discharged will stay in balance pretty good for a long time.

Does anyone think I would be better off going for the turnigy nano or the cheaper zippy? I could make a really cheap 10 amp pack with the zippy!

There's absolutely no reason for high performance lipo for ebike use. A 10s2p 5000mah 15C pack of zippys provides 150A continuous and 250A burst. Your motor will probably never use more than 25A.

 

[neptronix]

BTW i've been told various times that the 15C is basically the stuff that doesn't make the cut for 25C/30C.
Basically, dog food cells..

So i buy 20C

Things may be different now though. Perhaps they are selling the B grade cells openly as runts and the regular packs have increased in quality..

 

[wesnewell]

I haven't had a problem with the 15C I bought from the USA warehouse. But the lowest I've taken it was to 3.62V per cell. Running a single 5ah pack I probably haven't pulled more than 5C continuous from it. And I think that's about all I can pull without modding the controller. Maybe they figure bad bricks will get sent back from people here since it doesn't cost that much in postage and they ship better parts to there overseas warehouses. Probably not, but sounds good.

 

[neptronix]

The reason i went with the 20C turnigy bricks is because they often go on sale. Seen the 20C 5AH 5S bricks go for 28% off more than once. Never seen a deal on the 15C.

I also think they are more desirable / common. I will always use the stuff that is more common as it will be easier to get replacements for that in the future.

 

[dogman dan]

I have 20c lipo and 30 c lipo. Believe it or not, you can tell the difference, even though I'm only drawing 40 amps on one of my bikes, and 20 on all the others.

However the difference is measuring the change between nearly no voltage sag and nearly no voltage sag. I'd say if the 20c stuff is cheap enough, go for it for most users. There is very much likely to be a cycle life improvement with better stuff, like the 45c nanos. They will be stressed even less in use, and that is gerneraly known to help improve cycle life. Plus low internal resistance generally increases cycle life too, so the really high resistance cells like the 15c might do significantly less cycles than a nano.

Bottom line, it just depends on your budget and needs. If you only need 4 packs, then splurging on nanos may make a lot of sense. For me, I needed lots of capacity to run a race day. I bought 30c for the main event, and will run the heat race on 20c.

Regarding diagrams etc. I have posted good pictures of much of what I've done, but lots of them are gone now. So is the computer I had that had them in it. So I'm in a pinch to edit those threads to put the pix back.

But we are here to help, and though tedious for all, asking very specific questions leads to more specific answers. So for instance, ask how do you connect packs paralell? Then you may get several pix or diagrams in reply, showing two or three of the million ways to do it.

If you have the time, spending days or even months reading build threads from the players really helps. I can't possiblly list em all, but guys like Aussie Jester, Hyena, Methods, GC in DC, Dr Bass, Hal (greyborg), Ypedal, Drunkskunk, etc etc etc have some great stuff in thier build threads. My stuff is just imitating them mostly. Again unfortunately, many pix are gone for now so watching these guys new posts may be more effective for you.

 

[Ykick]

15C or 20C, that is the question? I've used 12qty 20C Turnigy and 6qty 15C Zippy's almost daily for about a year on 20-30A controllers. Turnigy 20C's arrived with a couple bum cells. Nothing horrible but a few cells self-discharge a small amount over the course of normal month use. My best guess is about 200-300 cycles on the Turnigy and 50 or so on the Zippy.

With the 15C Zippy's 'never need to balance 'em. They don't have as many cycles yet as the Turnigy so longevity may suck but I've pretty much decided to stick with Zippy brand from now on until I get a bum brick or the voltage sag becomes too ugly after 200-300 cycles.

It makes sense that the 15C stuff is QC reject but based on my experience it's a great value and so far much better remaining in balance than my 20C Turnigy bricks. To be fair, 15C Zippy do become slightly warmer under same conditions than the 20C Turnigy but that's the only immediate difference I can find so far.

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, I agree. Nearly the only difference noticeable on a single ride is that lower c rate batteries get warmer than higher c rate. Niether gets very warm at all though, once you are running a 10 ah pack size, and using a 40 amp controller or less. I only notice a bit of heat when using a 5 ah pack, and not even very much of that.

My nicad packs though, boy do those come off the bike or mower hot! 5c cells, but they get a LOT hotter than 2c lifepo4. To be fair though, the lifepo4 is a bigger pack size, so they don't warm up.

 

[Ykick]

Yeah, I agree. Nearly the only difference noticeable on a single ride is that lower c rate batteries get warmer than higher c rate. Niether gets very warm at all though, once you are running a 10 ah pack size, and using a 40 amp controller or less. I only notice a bit of heat when using a 5 ah pack, and not even very much of that.

My nicad packs though, boy do those come off the bike or mower hot! 5c cells, but they get a LOT hotter than 2c lifepo4. To be fair though, the lifepo4 is a bigger pack size, so they don't warm up.

To be fair and more detailed my 15C Zippy's run 12S while the 20C Turnigy's work at 15S so the work load is spread out over 3 more additional cells. Surely, that accounts for some of the extra heat I've noticed?

Yes, I have old NiMh F cells too and with those and any Nickel batteries every charging system seems to monitor temperature carefully.

I watched temperature carefully for a while with my Lipo but they actually cool off when charging at much higher rates than any Nickel chemistry would ever handle.

Still, not a bad thing to have temp monitoring cutoff and maybe even some pressure sensing cutoff for a plug and walk away Lipo charging setup?

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Thanks guys for the excellent information,

That is what I really like about this Forum, lots of help!

So to get 51.8 volts I need to connect 2 x 5s packs to get me 37 volts and a 4s to get me 51.8 volts and then for 10 amps I would need to do the same again only parallel. I think I got that now???


Or for simplicity, connect 2x 5s packs in series and then another 2 to parallel to make 10 amps?

Really I think 37 volts is plenty on Cell_Mans MAC 500 ( please cell_man get the new gears ) 25ish mph is fast enough and give me plenty of power for the extra long hills. 10 amps will be plenty and light (I just hope the new gears will take the 40 amps)

And the cheaper zippy or turnigy packs would give plenty of current when needed.

For charging I think 1 of these should do the job?

iCharger 1010B+ 300W 10s Balance/Charger

Power Supply HobbyKing 600W / 17V Power Supply I think that's compatible with the icharger it says >13.5 v?

Am I missing connector compatibility or connections? apart from the connectors and cable to series and parallel.

Another thing is to set the charger to charge each cell to 4.1 volts? so does that mean I will loose much capacity? that bit still confuses me.

I'm assuming I could get close to 500-600 cycles?

I'm just after noticing these 8 amp zippies 4 of these would give me 16 amps and weigh only 4.2 kgs, that's 1.5 kgs lighter than Ping's 36 volt 15 amp. And that makes a difference on a e-bike that I want as light as possible.

Price would not be much different but the zippies will allow me to pull much higher current, I think 480 amps V Ping's 30 amps. That will make a difference in a smaller pack. I have great respect for Pings 20 amp 48 volt though and served me well with my magic pie motor @40 amps, the voltage did drop though under load, but still a good pack!

The initial set-up will be expensive because I don't have any charging equipment!

Again thanks for the info!


Mark

 

[neptronix]

Gonna run 14s? just jump straight into the hyperion 14s charger then. It will save you a lot of hassle over the long run. 14s will not be too fun to charge regularly unless you plan on doing an iCharger 1010b+ @ 10s regularly and adding the extra 4 cells for fun runs here and there. ( that's how i roll currently, but with 15S )

You have the right idea with the packs configurations.
If you are in the USA, the 5AH packs are cheaper as the 8AH has to be shipped from China. Although the 8Ah are real nice... less connections to make = always a good thing

You could start out with an 8AH setup at first and ratchet it up later. 8AH 30C will definitely handle 40A without flinching. I have ran 39-42a constant on a 5AH 20C pack and no women and children were harmed so you can do that with an 8 / 30c

Be prepared to do a ton of soldering to make yourself series and parallel connectors. Buy more connectors than you need and at least 1 more lipo pack than you need cuz you could have a dud and it is always good to have a spare.

Charging to 4.1v will not lose much capacity. I charge to 4.15v though because there is still a bit of charge up to that level.

Most important is to stop discharging at 3.6v. Really isn't much in the way of power below that anyhow.

 

[theRealFury]

Hi therealfury

I think for simplicity I shall go with 36 ish volts I was thinking 2 of these

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9180

4 would give me 44 volts and plenty for cell_man's mac 500, (when he gets the new gears) if ever!
I could even start off with 2 for 5 amps and see how far it will get me! only thing is with LiPo I believe you have to charge to no more than 95 %? meaning I will probably get less than 5 amps?

If your going to spend $65 on those then its worth it to buy http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=16228 instead. You will get 8AH capacity at 44.4v and will be really easy to charge if your willing to pay for a 14s charger... or if not the you only have 2 batteries to split to charge. worst case you need more than 8AH capacity so you buy 2 more and then you have 16AH.. that will get you a LONG way if your just using it for assitance on hills and a bit of a squeese on the twisties

the deal with lipo is that if you want maximum cycle life then you should only charge to 4.1v per cell or 4.15 maximum which is about 98% of full capacity... more importantly though you should not discharge below 3.5-3.6v per cell which leaves about 15-20% capacity in the pack in total, Obaying these guidelines as been said to grant as much as 10 times the cycle life, so you could go from 100 cycles at 100% DOD to 1000 cycles at 80% DOD.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

I think I will actually go for the zippy 8 amp 6s. I don't think I need more than 8 amps. I was out today and did 17 miles all on my own, and I'm about 5"8 200lbs going down! some hills some wind, so not bad. I can actually feel myself get fitter every week! So 8 amps is plenty to take me further I can always get more anyway, that's the cool thing about LiPo, and for really long rides I can have 10 amps and for exercise just 8 amps to keep the weight to a minimum!

Regarding the Hyperion, do I parallel 2 packs and balance wires, and then all the power wires together, each in parallel?

And if I had 4 bricks, would I parallel everything or could I charge in my series and parallel 10 amp, like it was a single 10 amp pack?

I'm still a little uneducated regarding chargers!

Mark

 

[neptronix]

Regarding the Hyperion, do I parallel 2 packs and balance wires, and then all the power wires together, each in parallel?

And if I had 4 bricks, would I parallel everything or could I charge in my series and parallel 10 amp, like it was a single 10 amp pack?

I'm still a little uneducated regarding chargers!

Mark

You connect 2x packs in a series configuration and plug each balance tap into the charger.
Then you have a 10S 5ah pack effectively

If you are using 4x packs for a 10ah setup, you make two series harnesses and plug those into one parallel harness.
progressiverc.com sells balance lead parallel harnesses, you can use those between the parallel groups

You will then effectively have a 37v 10S 10AH pack.

Read my thread called 'how i stopped worrying and learned to love the lipo' and search around also for paralleling info on here. there are many threads.

BTW if you are okay with 10S ( IE you are using a geared hub motor or really low wind and a lot of amps to get the desired speed of over 20mph ), an iCharger 1010b+ is a bit slow, BUT if you wait long enough on the hobbyking page you can get it for $121.

It will charge a 10S pack at maximum of 5amp rate, but i charge mine at 3.5v as the fans start going crazy at 5amp.

 

[wesnewell]

I think I will actually go for the zippy 8 amp 6s.

Two 8ah 6s packs in series (12S) will provide about the same wattage as a 10ah 10s pack, plus give you a little extra speed because of the increased voltage. As long as it works with your controller, I'd do the same thing. Fully charged 10ah 10s pack has 420 watts. 8ah 12s pack has 403.2 watts. Not a lot of difference, and you won't have to mess with paralleling them.

Regarding the Hyperion, do I parallel 2 packs and balance wires, and then all the power wires together, each in parallel?

And if I had 4 bricks, would I parallel everything or could I charge in my series and parallel 10 amp, like it was a single 10 amp pack?

I'm still a little uneducated regarding chargers!

There's lots of different ways to charge them. For an 10-12s1p pack consisting of 2 bricks, jumper pos. to neg. between the bricks and charge the whole thing as one battery, connecting the balance cables to A and B of the hyperion. Connect the balance cable of the high side (where you plug the + charger lead) to the B side balancer, and the - side balance cable to the A side balancer. Don't get these reversed when you balance charge, or5 even when you want to just check the pack balance. It will give false readings with the 2 bricks connected together. Most of the time, i don't even use the balance cables when I charge my 14s pack. The same holds true for for 2p, 3p, etc. Check out some of the videos if you're still confused.

 

[neptronix]

There's lots of different ways to charge them. For an 10-12s1p pack consisting of 2 bricks, jumper pos. to neg. between the bricks and charge the whole thing as one battery, connecting the balance cables to A and B of the hyperion. Connect the balance cable of the high side (where you plug the + charger lead) to the B side balancer, and the - side balance cable to the A side balancer. Don't get these reversed when you balance charge, or5 even when you want to just check the pack balance. It will give false readings with the 2 bricks connected together. Most of the time, i don't even use the balance cables when I charge my 14s pack. The same holds true for for 2p, 3p, etc. Check out some of the videos if you're still confused.

If you reverse them, you will fry your balance board and possibly damage your charger as well. You will also destroy your balance cables or weaken them.... ask me how i know

If you are unsure which order the cables go, place a multimeter on the balance leads of pack A and gradually move the positive up from each cell till you reach the end of that pack. Then connect the positive to the negative of the next pack and move upwards.

If it gradually goes up in 3-4.2v increments up to the maximum voltage of your battery pack, then you know what order the balance leads should go in.

As for what order the hyperion wants those leads in... i am not sure.