ice sheet losses in Greenland and Antarctica reach new highs

[Voltron]

And your victim mentality of "we can't know anything for real, we're all just poor dumb dupes of the system" is sad.

No, its not sad, its true on many things { not all things } .

For example, if a scientist tells you that 600,000 million tons of c02 was ejected into the atmosphere in 2018 , and that will cause global temps to rise 3 degrees by the year 2029 , how can YOU prove it is a accurate claim ?

You prove it by gathering all the data you can about temperature records like taking ice core samples, scanning the planet from space, and ocean bouys, quantifying emissions, having independent research around the world, developing a theory, then comparing it to the actual changes.

You know, science....

 

[billvon]

And your victim mentality of "we can't know anything for real, we're all just poor dumb dupes of the system" is sad.

It's a common partisan-hack ploy.

Science is in their favor: "Look, here are the cold hard FACTS! What, are you afraid of facts?"

Science is against them: "Well, does anyone really know anything? Didn't scientists say that bumblebees couldn't fly and something about an ice age? And whatabout X? And whatabout Y? And here's one guy who doesn't agree."

 

[rumme]

And your victim mentality of "we can't know anything for real, we're all just poor dumb dupes of the system" is sad.

It's a common partisan-hack ploy.

Science is in their favor: "Look, here are the cold hard FACTS! What, are you afraid of facts?"

Science is against them: "Well, does anyone really know anything? Didn't scientists say that bumblebees couldn't fly and something about an ice age? And whatabout X? And whatabout Y? And here's one guy who doesn't agree."

NASA admits we are now in a cool down era/trend .

You claimed, to trust info from sources like NASA ….{unless of course, it doesnt support global warming ? } Looks like you are guilty, of what you claim others are guilty of.

 

[rumme]

And your victim mentality of "we can't know anything for real, we're all just poor dumb dupes of the system" is sad.

No, its not sad, its true on many things { not all things } .

For example, if a scientist tells you that 600,000 million tons of c02 was ejected into the atmosphere in 2018 , and that will cause global temps to rise 3 degrees by the year 2029 , how can YOU prove it is a accurate claim ?

You prove it by gathering all the data you can about temperature records like taking ice core samples, scanning the planet from space, and ocean bouys, quantifying emissions, having independent research around the world, developing a theory, then comparing it to the actual changes.

You know, science....

ah yes, so you put 100% faith in science and the experts ?

Hey, they also used to tell us that :

margarine was healthier then butter
ciggarettes were healthy { not unhealthy}
Iraq had WMDS
a ice age was approaching in the 1970s

and many other things. Gee, why would anyone doubt these people ?

 

[Voltron]

Got a link from an actual government source saying that?

 

[Voltron]

Yes, I do believe 100% in the scientific method, where numerous theories are tested, knowing ahead of time that some will be disproven. The only other alternative is to try to figure out reality based on personal beliefs.

 

[rumme]

Yes, I do believe 100% in the scientific method, where numerous theories are tested, knowing ahead of time that some will be disproven. The only other alternative is to try to figure out reality based on personal beliefs.

You seem to ignore, that those scientific efforts, are often controlled by fallible , corrupt, greedy humans that have a track record of inaccuracies and can be bought out by lobbyists, politicians , and other entities, for the sake of money, fame, etc.

the good news is this...you will probably get to see trillions of dollars in new taxation, at the hands of corrupt politcians, who claim it is needed to stop climate change. The bad news is , it wont stop climate change, and once those new taxes are instituted, dont expect them to ever be eliminated.....besides, they can continually come out with new data, that suggests we cant eliminate those new green taxes, or else the earth will get to HOT...lol You poor naïve people.

 

[Voltron]

One of us is ignoring things, that's for sure. And no matter what shady scientist here and there sells his stamp on a paper to get funding, the facts emerge as the world scientific community tried to recreate the results. That's the point of the scientific method, is test claims until there are reproduceable results. But to claim to not be able to believe anything because a few outlying theories are thrown out there is a rejection of human thought.

 

[rumme]

One of us is ignoring things, that's for sure. And no matter what shady scientist here and there sells his stamp on a paper to get funding, the facts emerge as the world scientific community tried to recreate the results. That's the point of the scientific method, is test claims until there are reproduceable results. But to claim to not be able to believe anything because a few outlying theories are thrown out there is a rejection of human thought.

Good thing I never claimed to " not believe anything" . Bill Vons strawman tactics, may be rubbing off on you.

Questioning things and disbelieving everything, are not the same thing.


Like I said, you will get your trillions of dollars in new GREEN taxes. Will it stop climate change ? NO

Will those new taxes ever be eliminated ? Probably not

Can the experts and politcians endlessly claim, that once those new taxes are instituted, they can never be eliminated because we now must endlessly combat climate change ? PROBABLY !

We see how badly our corrupt govt runs programs like social security.

Its like toll bridges. They would tell you, they only need to collect the tolls, to pay for the bridge, then they will stop collecting tolls. Yeah...there another big lie for ya ! Once a huge revenue stream is tapped by corrupt, greedy govt, dont expect it to be eliminated.

Luckily, I am soon to be banned from this subforum, so you will have 1 less person to debate the global warming hysteria with.

 

[billvon]

But to claim to not be able to believe anything because a few outlying theories are thrown out there is a rejection of human thought.

That sort of philosophy is why the flat earth movement is today enjoying a renaissance. There are now conferences, Youtube talks, even cruises put on by people who believe the Earth is flat - or at the very least who "have an open mind" about the issue. "The science isn't settled! Don't be a sheep!" There are even celebrity spokespeople like rapper B.o.B and reality TV star Tila Tequila - and you know they wouldn't lie to you.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/jan/09/flat-earth-cruise-nautical-navigation
https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_-_Frequently_Asked_Questions#People_have_been_into_space._How_have_they_not_discovered_that_the_earth_is_flat.3F

 

[neptronix]

Anyone who considers B.o.B or certifiably mentally ill Tila Tequila to be a scientific authority is not going to listen to reason anyway, so you can give up on educating them out of the gate.

I entertained a contrarian ideal with my diet, that initially sounded like some convoluted insane plan, and eliminated two diseases that have plagued me since birth. Later on, we got to see science confirm the case for this diet.

So i think it's wise to explore things you disagree with, not only because there's a remote chance that the kooks are right, but also to understand the mentality of those you oppose.

Sometimes people believe genuinely kooky things just because they need something to believe in. Whether it's true or not is not the point.

 

[jimw1960]

What a shame. This had been a pretty good thread with a lot of good information until that rumme idiot started spamming it with a bunch of disproven lies and propaganda that the Russian troll farms are spoon feeding him. Must be some kind of mental illness. I bet he doesn't have a girlfriend.

 

[rumme]

What a shame. This had been a pretty good thread with a lot of good information until that rumme idiot started spamming it with a bunch of disproven lies and propaganda that the Russian troll farms are spoon feeding him. Must be some kind of mental illness. I bet he doesn't have a girlfriend.

Talk about invalid theories and conspiracy theories . Was it disproven that a few decades ago , experts claimed we were entering a new ice age ? Surely you saw a few of the MANY examples I posted, that proved that theory was the claimed science back then.


Yeah, I must be a idiot and Russian troll, because I dont have the same opinions you do. Morons. Lol.

 

[jimw1960]

Talk about invalid theories and conspiracy theories . Was it disproven that a few decades ago , experts claimed we were entering a new ice age ? Surely you saw a few of the MANY examples I posted, that proved that theory was the claimed science back then.

Yeah, I must be a idiot and Russian troll, because I dont have the same opinions you do. Morons. Lol.

Nobody thought we were going into a new ice age any time soon. You are referring to a single paper in the 70s at a time when Milankovich cycles were just beginning to be understood, and they correctly suggested that we are at a point where we should be slowly going into the next ice age. A bunch of newspapers and magazines picked up on that and sensationalized it, like it was going to happen any time soon. We now understand that it isn't going to happen so long as we keep overwhelming the natural cycle with 30 billion tons of fossil CO2 pouring into the atmosphere each year. Other lies that you are promoting: Al Gore never said that the ice caps would melt by 2000. That is pure propaganda straight from the Russian troll farm to your brain and you just eat it up. I don't think you are a Russian troll, just that you are the kind of dupe that they depend on to help them spread their misinformation. You probably also believe in chemtrails and that there might be some truth to the whole flat Earth thing.

 

[rumme]

Talk about invalid theories and conspiracy theories . Was it disproven that a few decades ago , experts claimed we were entering a new ice age ? Surely you saw a few of the MANY examples I posted, that proved that theory was the claimed science back then.

Yeah, I must be a idiot and Russian troll, because I dont have the same opinions you do. Morons. Lol.

Nobody thought we were going into a new ice age any time soon. You are referring to a single paper in the 70s at a time when Milankovich cycles were just beginning to be understood, and they correctly suggested that we are at a point where we should be slowly going into the next ice age. A bunch of newspapers and magazines picked up on that and sensationalized it, like it was going to happen any time soon. We now understand that it isn't going to happen so long as we keep overwhelming the natural cycle with 30 billion tons of fossil CO2 pouring into the atmosphere each year. Other lies that you are promoting: Al Gore never said that the ice caps would melt by 2000. That is pure propaganda straight from the Russian troll farm to your brain and you just eat it up. I don't think you are a Russian troll, just that you are the kind of dupe that they depend on to help them spread their misinformation. You probably also believe in chemtrails and that there might be some truth to the whole flat Earth thing.

No, you are incorrect. I did not refer to just 1 single source/ paper. In fact, I posted numerous sources...scientists , climate experts, newspaper articles citing specific scientific names, scientific magazines, articles showing satellite imagery , and even tv programs.

Many of these sources made the ice age/global cooling predictions thru the 1960s- 1970s . Id suggest you go back, and re-read some of the many sources I posted. But maybe your are correct, I must be a Russian troll, since I dont have the same opinions you do.

Dont worry, you global warming lunatics, are gonna get to see those trillions of dollars in new taxes by corrupt politcians. YOU DESERVE IT !

 

[billvon]

Sometimes people believe genuinely kooky things just because they need something to believe in. Whether it's true or not is not the point.

Definitely. It fulfills a need in them to see themselves as special, not just one of those "dupes" who believes what all the other "sheep" do. You see a lot of this in conspiracy theorists as well. Their cause, whether it's flat-eartherism, climate change denial, climate change alarmism, anti-vaxxing or Trutherism, becomes an important part of who they are - so it becomes painful to give it up, even in the light of fact.

 

[billvon]

Was it disproven that a few decades ago , experts claimed we were entering a new ice age ?

Nope. No one claimed that. One scientist published a report on the effect of high altitude aerosols from rising levels of industrial pollution, and speculated that IF THE TREND CONTINUED (which it was not expected to) you could see significant cooling. Some irresponsible journalists like the sensation of that story - "A NEW ICE AGE!" - and ran with it. They later apologized for publishing the misleading article.

Another good lesson. Stick with Nature, Science, NCAR-Boulder etc and leave the sensational tabloids for reporting on the Kardashians.

 

[rumme]

Was it disproven that a few decades ago , experts claimed we were entering a new ice age ?

Nope. No one claimed that. One scientist published a report on the effect of high altitude aerosols from rising levels of industrial pollution, and speculated that IF THE TREND CONTINUED (which it was not expected to) you could see significant cooling. Some irresponsible journalists like the sensation of that story - "A NEW ICE AGE!" - and ran with it. They later apologized for publishing the misleading article.

Another good lesson. Stick with Nature, Science, NCAR-Boulder etc and leave the sensational tabloids for reporting on the Kardashians.

Ill stick with and trust my corrupt politicians that want to add trillions in more taxes, to stop climate change. Thats the sensible thing to do.

 

[Punx0r]

New study found a tipping point at 1200PPM atmospheric CO2 where stratocumulus cloud decks become unstable, allowing greater solar radiation to reach the surface. This would be around an ~8°C global average increase (~10°C in the subtropics) in addition to the 5-6°C of direct warming from the CO2, giving a total of ~14°C, which would make large parts of the planet inhabitable to mammals (but we might see crocodiles at the poles again):

https://www.carbonbrief.org/extreme-co2-levels-could-trigger-clouds-tipping-point-and-8c-of-global-warming

1200PPM is the scenario we'd reach in the year 2100 based on continued (and expanding) use of fossil fuels and no climate change mitigation i.e. business as normal in the 80's carried on.

 

[MJSfoto1956]

New study found a tipping point at 1200PPM atmospheric CO2 where stratocumulus cloud decks become unstable, allowing greater solar radiation to reach the surface. This would be around an ~8°C global average increase (~10°C in the subtropics) in addition to the 5-6°C of direct warming from the CO2, giving a total of ~14°C, which would make large parts of the planet inhabitable to mammals (but we might see crocodiles at the poles again):

https://www.carbonbrief.org/extreme-co2-levels-could-trigger-clouds-tipping-point-and-8c-of-global-warming

1200PPM is the scenario we'd reach in the year 2100 based on continued (and expanding) use of fossil fuels and no climate change mitigation i.e. business as normal in the 80's carried on.

I read that study. Pretty astounding. Apparently this has happened in the past and it took centuries to re-stabilize. Basic rule of thumb: avoid bifurcation at all costs, because you won't like what's on the other side.

M

 

[TheBeastie]

Pretty good interview with Greenpeace Co-founder talking about climate change/co2.
https://twitter.com/EcoSenseNow/status/1106924843189055488
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(consultant)

Greenpeace Co-founder: ‘Climate Crisis’ Not Only ‘Fake News’ — ‘It’s Fake Science’
https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019/03/12/greenpeace-cofounder-climate-crisis-not-only-fake-news-its-fake-science/?fbclid=IwAR25sGZ3vzxHtC3RUIIm7HTlm2wwePq_VpCJAgoJhreyHX-yF5MATMJDZgk

Its the embedded video interview thats a good watch..

I agree with him, sure climate change is real, to put it simply, the difference is tiny.
The only real reason I support low co2 emissions technology is the idea of cleaner air and removing fuel dependence and just making people happy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2761677.stm
Just like this famous carved into the stone mean sea level marker from almost 180 years ago now the real-world difference is tiny and natural, the world is constantly changing.

Covering up forests with solar panels is literally more environmentally destructive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Wonga_Solar_Farm
This 17 square kilometre solar farm is going to sit on half green treed/half farmland that all up sits between two state forests full of koalas.
There is no reason in the world why the whole area can't be made into a single larger state forest. But instead, they are literally going to cover it all up in solar panels, for subsidy money and politics, no other reason.

And why this area? Because it's a good rainfall area so they don't have to clean the solar panels. Solar panels always get covered in dust/sand when placed in an actual dead dry area.

This is the reason why you will never see truly large scale solar farms in dead dry areas but instead placed over green rainfall areas, and even now literally over koala habitat areas, all for green energy subsidies and politics, the people who do this all this do not give a crap about the environment, its all for the money.

 

[MJSfoto1956]

Pretty good interview with Greenpeace Co-founder talking about climate change/co2.

Greenpeace Co-founder: ‘Climate Crisis’ Not Only ‘Fake News’ — ‘It’s Fake Science’
https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019/03/12/greenpeace-cofounder-climate-crisis-not-only-fake-news-its-fake-science/?fbclid=IwAR25sGZ3vzxHtC3RUIIm7HTlm2wwePq_VpCJAgoJhreyHX-yF5MATMJDZgk

Talk about fake news. That guy had nothing to do with Greenpeace. He's a paid oil lobbyist. The sad thing is that people just regurgitate this stuff thinking it is real. And agreeing with such overt propaganda makes you part of the problem.

M

 

[billvon]

Pretty good interview with Greenpeace Co-founder talking about climate change/co2.

Not a Greenpeace co-founder; a lobbyist who worked for Greenpeace for a bit.

Greenpeace statement on him:
"Patrick Moore was not a co-founder of Greenpeace. He does not represent Greenpeace. He is a paid lobbyist, not an independent source. His statements about @AOC & the #GreenNewDeal have nothing to do with our positions."

Don't you know better than to get your news from Breitbart? Shame on you.

its impossible that an increase in co2 or as historically proven a huge volcano spuring crud into the atmosphere have affected the climate.

It's impossible that CO2 increases or large volcanic eruptions affected the climate? Wow, you've been reading a LOT of Breitbart. I hear vaccines cause autism too!

Covering up forests with solar panels is literally more environmentally destructive.

Disagree. When solar reduces the amount of coal burned, then acid rain, particulate pollution and SOx/NOx pollution all decline - and all those things are proven deadly to wildlife.

This 17 square kilometre solar farm is going to sit on half green treed/half farmland that all up sits between two state forests full of koalas.

Good use of fallow farmland.

This is the reason why you will never see truly large scale solar farms in dead dry areas but instead placed over green rainfall areas

Wow. This intentional denial of reality is pretty remarkable even for a Breitbart reader. If you care (I doubt you do) google Noor Solar Plant. When completed it will be the largest CSP solar plant in the world. And it's in the Sahara Desert.

Second largest - the Kamuthi solar project in Tamil Nadu, India. Again, desert. Google it.

Largest in the US - Topaz Solar Farm. Desert.

Largest in China - Longyangxia Dam Solar Park. Desert.

 

[jimw1960]

Pretty good interview with Greenpeace Co-founder talking about climate change/co2.

That guy is NOT a "Greenpeace cofounder." He's a paid hack for the fossil fuel industry who very briefly associated himself with Greenpeace.

 

[jimw1960]

Talk about fake news. That guy had nothing to do with Greenpeace. He's a paid oil lobbyist. The sad thing is that people just regurgitate this stuff thinking it is real. And agreeing with such overt propaganda makes you part of the problem.

M

Good ol' Beastie seems particularly gullible for any sort of fake news that fits his warped world view.