Ideas 4 F-Ugly Build with Quick Disconnect Motor/Cont/Bat

[markz]

Intro/Background and blah blah blah
---------------------------------------------

Ive only dabbled in hub motors, but lots of bikes are being put on 4 sale in the classifieds, and I found some cheap, if not free frocking ugly ones. It got me thinking because I was planning on renting a bicycle box for $12/m from Calgary Transit. But I am a cheap skate, better to get a frocking ugly bicycle that looks odd (gear reduction) having people say "What the frock is that contraption on that frocking ugly piece of shit rusted out bicycle" then locking the bike itself up on the bicycle rack for free. With the usual U-Lock and cable lock the wheels, seat. Maybe even weld them :lol:

Concept & Idea
-------------------

- I want to be able to quickly take off and connect the motor, ESC and battery. All the things I dont want stolen. The rest of the crappy bike can be left out to gain more patina

Been researching this the last hour. I can go 2 or 3 methods. Method 1 is lots of gear reductions on a 1000kv rc motor which needs a 48:1 reduction to obtain a 500rpm. Method 2 I was originally thinking to be friction drive but even a 190kv needs reduction, I know people install different rollers.

Method 1) 1000kv RC motor noisy 48:1 500rpm. I found a random one on HobbyKing called Dr. Mad Thrust, 8S(29.6Vnom @30Krpm)-10S(37Vnom @37Krpm) which is 1000kv, 4600W 90mmx40mm EDF $60usd on sale.

Here is the sprocket selections. Basically a 4x4x3 setup for $80 with everything (Chain, Hubs/Couplers).
Princess Auto (like USA's Harbor Freight) has weld-on sprockets, ranging from 10T for $4 or $5, 40T $9.50 and 30T $7.50. On the motors axle would have 10T or a 9T, then chain to 40T which is connected on the same shaft to a 10T, repeat that again, then the wheel would have 30T. 4:1 x 4:1 x 3:1 = 48:1 500rpm. Chain is $20, then either idler
or hubs

Method 2) Friction drive - Really small roller and a very low kv motor ~190kv. Use the shell of the outrunner as the roller. Reduce voltage down to 6S might work, originally I thought I needed more reduction, but that was using 10S.

Method 3) Vee Belt Sheeve Pulley on a 26" tire, gets a 10:1 reduction (outrunner 65mm to 650mm wheel) Just a variation on method 1, higher reduction. The highest I could with weld on sprockets is 7.2:1

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/kd-53-30-high-voltage-brushless-outrunner-190kv.html
This is an 1000kv EDF motor, alright to use on the 3 section gear reduction?

Specs:
Kv: 190 rpm/v
Max Current: 90A
Max Power: 2000W
Cell Count: 6 ~ 10S LiPoly
Weight: 670g
Dimensions: 63 x 64mm
Shaft Size: Dia 8mm/ Length 25mm
Mounting Hole Dimensions: Rear 23.4mm / Front 30.4, 44.4mm

Speed would be 35kph/20mph

Basically its 2.2km (1.4 miles) mostly 2, 3, 4% grade with a handful of short 20 meter sections of 6-7%
330lb rider

Nice weather has come, so Im in the mood to spend.

 

[markz]

Went to Princess Auto and looked at their Sprockets, Hubs, Couplers. Tons of selection.

The hubs that correspond the sprockets fit snug fit, but have different categories of sizes, so a 9T and 10T, 12T say fit one hub, while the 14, 16, 18T, 20T will fit another.





The 10T is loose ontop of the hub, with the larger sprocket fitted to the hub. Might be hard to get the 10T centered so it has no vibrations.

Another problem I foresee is how do I attached a 10T sprocket to a small 8-10mm diameter motor axle, then using a #35 chain. I did see various RC gears but how do I go from having a RC gear on the motor, then a chain or belt to a metal sprocket. The vision is not clear.

Not sure if I want to do a combo of gear reductions using sprockets with a wheel sheave attached to the spokes. The idea behind that is to add more ugliness and confusion to the eye as to what the bike is..... to the already ugly bike.

Whizzer Pulley (Sheave) for the wheel is an option.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-wheel-sheave-fits-Cruzzer-whizzer-motorbikes-and-motorized-bicycles-/322425861122?hash=item4b12143402:g:ZGQAAOSwrklVFznC&vxp=mtr
Probably need a 20mm wide rim on a mountiain bicyle. I have an Alex 40mm wide 24" rim that doesnt even squeeze in on my Townie. 20mm wide rim should be good, with plenty of space between spokes and frame.

http://www.electricycle.com/ebike3.htm
Good reference point for sprocket/sheave idea.

With the wheel sheave I end up using one less reduction phase which saves me some money if I do a DIY sheave on an old rim.

All depends on kv of motor.

But I did some quick didly on strictly 3 stages with no wheel sheave from 1000kv up to 3000kv all @ 22V getting it down to 500rpm and its all 10T and 40T or 50T. With the added wheel sheave I can get a 10:1 reduction, which then requires only one more stage of 6:1 (10T and 60T)

 

[MadRhino]

To take off motor, battery, controller... And put it back quickly.
Makes me think of all in one front friction drive unit, fitting on the handlebar. :wink:

 

[markz]

I dig the idea of being able to take the motor, esc and battery off the bike quickly throwing it into a 80's era fanny pack doing my thang. Going to a movie theatre, hitting the restaraunt for a bite, sports game, shopping mall or whatever it is and not having to worry about my expensive ebike stuff being stolen.

Sure you could say hide it behind traditional pannier bags, or build hardcase pannier bags permanently attached to the frame to hide everything behind, but I'd still be nervous.

Taking it all off would give me piece of mind.

Now goes my Search for a fugly bike..... Things I am looking for: 100% steel, traditional 1990's era mountain bike, turned into a jagged diy cruiser with a layback seat, used beat up cruiser style handlebars, cant forget the water bottle cages, old rusted rat trap rear rack, you get the idea.

I had to delete 4, so these puppies are going quick because of the warm weather.

Prime Candidate #1 Cruiser Semi Womens RUSTED!!!!!!!! http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cruiser-commuter-hybrid/calgary/free-cruiser-bike-on-hold/1248276277?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Harley Bars - http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cruiser-commuter-hybrid/calgary/bicycle-rat-rod-project/1210493427?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Old Raleigh - http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cruiser-commuter-hybrid/calgary/vintage-raleigh-big-horn-commuter-bicycle/1241627142?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Raleigh Dark, semi womens - http://www.kijiji.ca/v-mountain-bike/calgary/raleigh-bike/1248287877?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Walmart NEXT black - http://www.kijiji.ca/v-mountain-bike/calgary/21-speed-mountain-bike-for-sale/1244407329?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-mountain-bike/calgary/medium-size-mountain-bike/1239903236?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Clean old bike, black + neon pink - http://www.kijiji.ca/v-mountain-bike/calgary/mountain-bike/1249521806?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Clean old bike, Light blue - http://www.kijiji.ca/v-mountain-bike/calgary/mountain-bike/1249806207?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Leave these bikes unlocked and they wont be stolen!

Motor specs

MAX AMP: 80A
ESC: 100/150A
MAX VOLT: 10S

Help me out here, Not sure what exactly 100/150A means but what ESC should I buy for all these components?

Alien seems expensive - http://alienpowersystem.com/product-category/esc/ev-esc/?orderby=price

$115 + $40s/h = $155cad - Motor 90KV 80A 10S - http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/brushless-motors/alien-6374-outrunner-brushless-motor-90kv-3200w/
$18 - Chain #35 - https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/-35-single-strand-roller-chain/A-p3842101e
$3.50 - #35 12T - https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/12-teeth-35-chain-weld-on-sprocket/A-p8609406e
#35 40T - https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/40-teeth-35-chain-weld-on-sprocket/A-p3840076e
$10 - #35 26T - https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/26-teeth-35-chain-weld-on-sprocket/A-p3840073e


I was using 500rpm on 26" wheel, but that is way to fast. 323 40kph is more my number, maybe even slower 285rpm 35kph. 323 40kph is more my number, maybe even slower 285rpm 35kph.


From spinningmagnets post, helpful, thanks!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=16114#p236330

MPH (km/h) = RPM
01__(1.61)___12.9
02__(3.22)___25.9
03__(4.83)___38.8
04__(6.44)___51.7
05__(8.05)___64.7
06__(9.65)___77.6
07__(11.26)__90.5
08__(12.87)__103.4
09__(14.48)__116.4
10__(16.09)__129.3
11___(18)___142
12___(19)___155
13___(21)___168
14___(23)___181
15___(24)___194
16___(26)___207
17___(27)___220
18___(29)___233
19___(31)___246
20___(32)___259
21___(34)___272
22___(35)___285
23___(37)___297
24___(39)___310
25___(40)___323
26___(42)___336
27___(43)___349
28___(45)___362
29___(47)___375
30___(48)___388
31___(50)___401
32___(51)___414
33___(53)___427
34___(55)___440
35___(56)___453
36___(58)___465
37___(60)___478
38___(61)___491
39___(63)___504
40___(64)___517
MPH (km/h) = RPM

 

[markz]

Quick summation

 

[spinningmagnets]

Don't tell anyone, but I am converting a cordless battery operated circular saw into a friction drive. Found a used unit for $30 from a pawn shop. I got a Ryobi, but DeWalt seems to be popular and available...

It will have issues that need to be addressed, but, $30 for a motor, fan, controller, used battery that has a few weeks of life left, and a dumb charger that works OK. On the plus side, if the friction drive is a failure, I still have a cordless circular saw. If someone wanted to hook up a new unit with a sprocket (instead of a friction drive), the 7-inch bladed saws have the most torque, and some are available as brushless.

Biggest issue right now is the high Kv, which is why I'm going friction drive.

BMX peg ID 33.1-ish mm, Bolt hole 8.5mm, pocket depth approx 14mm

 

[markz]

Yeah the kv is always the issue. Whatever you got laying around or what you can find for cheap is good. I see lots of battery powered mowers for real cheap. I looked into that once, not sure what the deal is on them. I will have another look right now actually. Found one Freeeeeeeeeee

Ok ok thanks Spinning Magnets, you may save me some coinages.

Disassembly of a cordless circular saw. ~5000rpm so need 17:1 to get 300rpm, or 4.14:1 x 4.14:1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfRkg0HFH7k

To be honest, this looks totally doable, and for ultra cheap. The motor looks like it will fill my palm since I got big mutts.

OK Now its time to spend endless hours researching this.

So the new challenge is still the frocking ugly bike angle which is easy to accomplish. I will still leave in the portable and quick dis/connect aspect since that is what I am after. But now its time to add another challenge, how cheaply can I find what I need to accomplish a functional ebike. Those are the new terms.

Thanks alot SM

I had this below all typed up and will leave it be for now.
May edit it later as I usually do. [strike]Probably add the SM angle.[/strike] No no, already full on with the SM angle.

Here is a vid of a mower disassembled, motor is huge!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3afO7F6Zk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IFk7hew8dA

So maybe 2 circular saw motors will do, freebies or ultra cheap.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I dont mind spending $250cad on a small rc setup. I may want to think of going mid drive. For now I will continue on just using gear reductions from the motor, and installing a sprocket on the wheel opposite the freewheel.

I forgot to add to my list; the motor, its a 90kv though a 60kv is backordered both same price.
http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/brushless-motors/alien-6374-outrunner-brushless-motor-90kv-3200w/
90kv, size 6374, 3200W, 80Amax, ESC 100A/150A, 63mm diameter and 74mm long not including the shaft. The motor is going to be very manageable 2.5" x 2.9"
ESC in 10S is expensive, I may have to go lower like a 7S or 8S, then my gearing will change.
But the point Im making in this post is the size.
Here is a 6S 150A, hard to judge the size, those are 10awg wire in the pic
http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/esc/150a-esc-rc-1-8-car-1-6s/
Outright guess on size, 2"Wx3"Lx0.5"H
6S-12S are in the range of $100usd to $130
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/aerostar-advance-120a-esc-opto.html
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-k-force-120a-hv-opto-v2-5-12s-brushless-esc-1.html
4-14S $125
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/rotorstar-120a-hv-4-14s-brushless-speed-controller-opto.html
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbyking-yep-120a-hv-4-14s-brushless-speed-controller-opto.html

6S seems so wimpy and low power for my fat 335lbs'ish lean mean 8pack body.
So @ 6S Lipo, easy to use a different chemistry as the esc just cares about the voltage, unlike a BMS.
6x4.0V (not doing 4.2V) is 24V x 90kv = 2160rpm which would require a 7.2:1 reduction, or 2.69:1 x 2.69:1 so 12T-32T/12T -32T.

The 6S to 12S (65x46x17mm & 88x55x15mm) is more reasonable I guess, while the 4S to 14S
(68x53mm) has a larger range to play with, for an extra little bit. $100usd vs $125usd.

 

[spinningmagnets]

DeWalt makes a 60V circular saw at 5800-RPMs, but its just new enough that maybe hard to find. I found four of the 6.5-inch DeWalt 18V 3700-RPM quite easily for around $20 with no battery or charger (very common). The 60V is 15S and the so-called 20V is 5S.

I don't know if these saws have a reduction, which would mean the motor Kv is much faster (bad), but...Just found a deal on a new Milwaukee 18V, 5000-RPM, 7-1/4 inch blade means the motor is a higher-torque version, 9.0-Ah battery + charger all for $250

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M18-FUEL-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Brushless-Cordless-7-1-4-in-Circular-Saw-with-M18-18-Volt-9-0Ah-Starter-Kit-48-59-1890PC/300134851