Identifying a motor: WP30039X

owhite

owhite

100 W
Joined
Aug 3, 2020
Messages
290
Hello folks,

I recently purchased a conversion kit that came with a motor with this marking: WP30039X.

I have found a couple of bits of information from the googles.

On amazon I got one hit [https://www.amazon.ca/5000W-Highest-Torque-Windings-Motor/dp/B06Y5NLD1L]

That has my motor, but it also has another with different markings (WP30050X). I would normally think that might just be a batch number, but then there is this chart:
https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i2/1732396818/TB27_.sXpXXXXcoXpXXXXXXXXXX_!!1732396818.jpg

That shows both part numbers, and the 50X is slower which makes me think this has to do with 4T versus 5T, and mine would have a higher RPM.

And then at the QS motor site there is this bit of information:
https://www.qsmotor.com/product/3000w-bicycle-motor/

and says the following:
1) Super Torque Version, 5T, WP30050X, 650rpm at 72V.
2) Torque Version, 4T, WP30040X, 830rpm at 72V.
3) Balance Version, 3T, WP30030X, 1130rpm at 72V.
4) Fast Version, 3T-, WP30031X, 1400rpm at 72V.
Click to expand...

okay that's not specifically about my motor but its progress.

So in my case the seller said I can use 72V. What I want to know is how many amps i can run through it. I was starting to design my build around 20s8p samsung 25Rs so 20Ah capable of 160A continuous. My question is if that will be okay for this motor?

Any help would be appreciated.

owen
 
More information. According to the QS motor website:

http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/article_list_153.html

They give information about the markings of their QS 205s:

QS Motor Steel Seal
We could laser print it on side cover or edge of side cover.
For V3 type motors(e.g. WP20040X140607 7355)
WP= V3 type 200=2000W, 300=3000W
40 means winding 4T, X means 32 pieces magnetic steel (V3)
140607 means producing date, 07th, June, 2014. 7355, is producing serial number
Click to expand...

Which possibly suggests this is a V3, 3000w (with 39 windings :roll:) and it was manufactured in June 23, 2020.
 
That is a fast winding QS205h50v3, likely a 13.28 kv. Your battery is barely enough to feed it all the power it can take in acceleration. Mine sees 25kw acceleration bursts everyday, some had fed it even more. Only the continuous power rating is realistic, for I would not recommend a load/speed that would pull much more than 3 kw continuous. Voltage rating is irrelevant. I have been feeding 24s all the hub motors that I have had in the last decade.

It is a heavy hub that is hard to tune a suspension for. In a 24’’ wheel it is easy to make it ride +70 mph
 
No, mine is a tad slower but: All of them QS205h50v3 have about the same copper weight, so capable of the same torque only different rpm per volt (Kv). Your motor is faster than mine, thus it will suck more power because it has lower impedance. In the same wheel size, yours will spin faster for the same voltage but require more Amps to do so for the same load. I can estimate that we will have about the same top speed because I feed 17 more volts to the next slower winding of the same motor. The only difference of performance will be the limiting factors of your build (the peak power that you feed, the wind resistance and riding weight of your bike).

So, you’re up for a very fast ebike, and you will beat most motorcycles on a start if you build it sub 100 lbs. :twisted:
You can cook it if you are climbing steep and slow with repeated hard accelerations. It is an amazing climber but it does need to climb fast.
 
Well this is incredible news.

Can I reality check my build with you?

The bike frame is a rattan fat bear: https://www.rattanebike.com/products/rattan-fat-bike

It's 60lbs with stock motor and battery, I can still only guess but my motor / battery config will be an additional 50lbs.

Hearing all this I think i'll bump my battery pack to: 20s10p Samsung 25r, 25Ah, 200A continuous

Then I think I'll run a Sabvoton @ 150A, go for a spin, and see if it scares the hell out of me at 100A.

thoughts?
 
You are crazier than I, to build such performance on a folder fat bike. :shock:

It will ride like this one, even more dangerous on the street.

[youtube]NCpzXIPXdAQ[/youtube]
 
That is the frame I chose to build mine and even then, it needed some geometry and suspension mod to make it a good ride.

pbpic3525820.jpg
 
I love that video so much.

That frame is sweet. I was wondering - is it hard to get forks to match a frame? Are they getting standardized somehow? And I cant for the life of me imagine where the battery pack would go.

In my case I kind of dont want my bike to look like a high performance machine. I live in baltimore and it's way too easy for someone else to want it. And it definitely wont be a folder once I'm done with it.

o
 
Forks are standard but some are available 2 different steer tubes: 1 1/8’’ and conic.
Frames head tubes are 3 different standards: straight 1 1/2’’ that can fit only straight 1 1/8’’ steer tube, conic that can fit either 1 1/8’’ straight and conic steer tubes, and straight 2’’ that can fit them both too, of course. The advantage of a 2’’ head tube is that it can fit a complete set of Angle Set Headset that is giving better choice of steer tube angle setting. It can also fit bigger bearings, obviously.

Batteries on my bikes are modular. 4 x 6s 8A/h rc lipo in each of three batteries that are mounted: one on the front of the dual crown fork, one on the top tube, one under the down tube: for a total of 24s 24A/h of low IR cells.

The frame on the pic is a Trek Session 10 2009 size L. It had been mod since, to a 51’’ wheelbase, 3 points variable geometry settings, and lower suspension ratio.
 
6s RC lipo bricks are common. They are used in big drones, photography and agricultural. They are also used in RC planes and boats. So, in emergency they can be found locally in most big cities. To import them from China, we buy them at Hobby King because they ship fast. The manufacturers are selling direct but they are not managing shipping, so it is not an interesting solution for a dozen bricks. I like them 8A/h max, bigger bricks are much more sensitive to overheating. I choose them for low resistance because they can be charged fast and keep cool under high power demand. Beware of the cheap Lipo, for they are not true rating and don’t last for high power applications. This one is a good choice without being excessively expansive:
https://hobbyking.com/fr_fr/turnigy...h-6s-15c-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html?___store=fr_fr
 
That's really amazing. So it seems like the main downside of using your packs is the mAh - my config should give me with 20s10p should give me about 20Ah, and in your case it would be 8.

I calculated that 'aggressive' bike operation (30 watt-hours), my 20s10p should let me travel about 60 miles which has always sounded like a very unneeded amount of distance. I wonder if I travel 20 miles in a session, it's probably more like 10. Hell I've only put 500 miles on my bike since I got it in march.

So basically with your batteries it'd be:
  • easier to build
  • potentially cheaper
  • charge more quickly
  • more compact
  • lighter
  • easier to distribute weight
  • easy to replace when they fail

you definitely got me thinking. did you wire 'em to charge all together or separately?
 
owhite said:
That's really amazing. So it seems like the main downside of using your packs is the mAh - my config should give me with 20s10p should give me about 20Ah, and in your case it would be 8.

I calculated that 'aggressive' bike operation (30 watt-hours), my 20s10p should let me travel about 60 miles which has always sounded like a very unneeded amount of distance. I wonder if I travel 20 miles in a session, it's probably more like 10. Hell I've only put 500 miles on my bike since I got it in march.

So basically with your batteries it'd be:
  • easier to build
  • potentially cheaper
  • charge more quickly
  • more compact
  • lighter
  • easier to distribute weight
  • easy to replace when they fail


you definitely got me thinking.
Click to expand...
You should add much more dangerous to your list.
 
owhite said:
That's really amazing. So it seems like the main downside of using your packs is the mAh - my config should give me with 20s10p should give me about 20Ah, and in your case it would be 8.

I calculated that 'aggressive' bike operation (30 watt-hours), my 20s10p should let me travel about 60 miles which has always sounded like a very unneeded amount of distance. I wonder if I travel 20 miles in a session, it's probably more like 10. Hell I've only put 500 miles on my bike since I got it in march.

So basically with your batteries it'd be:
  • easier to build
  • potentially cheaper
  • charge more quickly
  • more compact
  • lighter
  • easier to distribute weight
  • easy to replace when they fail

you definitely got me thinking. did you wire 'em to charge all together or separately?
Click to expand...

Nope you didn’t get it. I build each battery with a series of 4 bricks of 6s 8A/h. One series of 4 bricks (24s 1p) is on the front, another in parallel with the first is on the top tube, and a third is under the down tube. The total battery capacity is 24A/h (3x8), one dozen 8A/h bricks assembled as 24s 3p.

I bulk charge using big Meanwell PSU’s, in less than 10 minutes. It is really not often that they need balancing. As long as they are never discharged below 3.6v per cell, they keep their balance very long. Most of the lipo bricks that I have used in the last 10 years have been balanced once or twice in their lifespan.

It is not cheaper, not if you buy quality lipo.

It is much faster to assemble of course, and the config can be changed in 15 minutes.

For performance, round cells are not interesting to me for many reasons. The main is IR, second is weight... next is safety, because high power density should not be contained in a hard casing IMO.
 
Yep, and you don’t need a fuse, for a short does instantly vaporize the connectors. :D

The best graphene cells are available 75c constant, 150c peak discharge, if money is not an issue :wink:

Then the same battery capacity would be able to supply 1800 A continuous, 1/3 megawatt peak power at full charge, for 2200 us$
Considered in this perspective they are a good deal. :twisted:
 
So I'm starting to see the beauty of graphene cells. I made a spreadsheet of some configurations.

YJq0czq.png


Yours is the top row. I was interested in if instead of going with 3p I did 2p. That's the second row. It seems like the penalty would simply be less distance even though there would still be a psychotic discharge rate. I mean i really dont need to get that many miles per ride - I just want to bomb around the and hit a couple parks in the evening - so to me that seems pretty attractive. I dont have a "ride around all day" situation. Is there any other downside to going with a total of 24s/2p?

Some of the other rows are not labeled as graphene. But one question I had was about going with a 5S pack rather than 6S. That's on the bottom row. Since the discharge rates are so crazy I would not lack for peak amperage - obviously since voltage would be lower, when the packs are discharging I'd be at 72v - but that's pretty much what I was originally planning with a 20s8p system with the round danger explodey tubes.

Are there other downsides thinking about 24s2p, or 20s3p? Is there a particular reason you like 8000mAh and not a little bit less?

I guess I'll ask the inevitable question - what controller are you using?

Another question - you sound pretty casual not needing a BMS - but would it be that hard to put a BMS in the system?

owen

the spreadsheet is here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...NycfHfTFKdLshJ_xbGKGx5CxA/edit#gid=1383906741
 
HRB discharge rate is about true, but the lifespan of those cells is very short. I have found them disappointing.

I never used Zee.

Tattu was good. True spec and all bricks equal.
 
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