I'm looking to buy an e-bike, need some advice.

[satsujjjj]

Hey, I'm looking to buy an e-bike and looking for general advice and stuff. My budget is from 1.6k to ~2.2k euros. I live in NL and I'm looking to buy a bike here, so EU laws.

Here's a list of e-bikes that I'm currently looking at:

Paris C7 | Gazelle

De Gazelle Paris C7 biedt een krachtige motor en een ergonomisch ontwerp, perfect voor stadsverkeer en dagelijkse ritten. Ervaar het rijcomfort zelf!

www.gazelle.nl

Scott Sub Active 10 eRIDE Rack (Unisex) - Herman Beleef Fietsen

Scott Sub Active Eride 10 Rack, een sterke E-bike met een hoge actieradius. Meer Weten? Bekijk hem hier bij Herman Beleef fietsen!

hermanbeleeffietsen.nl

BikeFair | Altec | BikeFair - Marketplace For Bikes

See this Brand new Altec in Rotterdam, offered by null. Price: nullnull. Or browse 4665 other bikes available on the marketplace.

bikefair.org

BikeFair | Brinckers Le Mans M7 | BikeFair - Marketplace For Bikes

See this Brand new Brinckers Le Mans M7 in Bladel, offered by Henk. Price: €1999. Or browse 4665 other bikes available on the marketplace.

bikefair.org

BikeFair | Vogue SLX | BikeFair - Marketplace For Bikes

See this Brand new Vogue SLX in Tilburg, offered by Stefan. Price: €2099. Or browse 4665 other bikes available on the marketplace.

bikefair.org

Any other models I should take a look at? out of these ones, which ones would you get if any?

 

[Az.]

Did you consider conversion?

For me right to repair is important, so I would choose conversion or eventually ready made Chinese e-bike.

 

[E-HP]

Can't comment on the 3rd and 5th bike since there's not enough information.
The first bike, the Gazelle, is fairly popular here, I see them frequently/daily. The look well built and the step through design looks great for casual riding. I'd get the larger battery version if buying that one. The Bosch motor is supposed to be super quiet, and the bikes I've seen don't make any noise that I hear when riding by.
The second bike uses the same drivetrain/motor, so I suspect it will perform similarly, but haven't seen them around.
The fourth bike uses the Bafang M400 motor, which will have more power, but will be nosier than the Bosch. So you'd need to decide for yourself if the trade off is worth it (I like quiet ebikes).
I think I'd get the Gazelle, but it would be best to give the ones you like the most a test ride.

 

[Mongo]

I've liked the Gazelle bikes I've seen, but don't own one.

However - if I was to go for a complete e-bike, especially for one with a proprietary and/or integrated battery, I'd want proof that the vendor has 1.) been around for a while and 2.) offers replacement batteries (or 3rd-party battery refurbishment services) for their older (say, 5+ years old) e-bikes. Gazelle has been around a long time and I suspect they support their bikes, but I don't know for sure. Many vendors don't.

 

[satsujjjj]

Can't comment on the 3rd and 5th bike since there's not enough information.
The first bike, the Gazelle, is fairly popular here, I see them frequently/daily. The look well built and the step through design looks great for casual riding. I'd get the larger battery version if buying that one. The Bosch motor is supposed to be super quiet, and the bikes I've seen don't make any noise that I hear when riding by.
The second bike uses the same drivetrain/motor, so I suspect it will perform similarly, but haven't seen them around.
The fourth bike uses the Bafang M400 motor, which will have more power, but will be nosier than the Bosch. So you'd need to decide for yourself if the trade off is worth it (I like quiet ebikes).
I think I'd get the Gazelle, but it would be best to give the ones you like the most a test ride.

Just realized that Gazelle has integrated battery, which is deal breaker for me, lol.

Esprit C7 | Gazelle

De Gazelle Esprit C7 biedt een comfortabele zitpositie en krachtige ondersteuning. Ideaal voor dagelijks gebruik en ontspannen ritten. Ontdek het rijplezier!

www.gazelle.nl

There's also this. Thoughts on Shimano motor?

 

[E-HP]

Just realized that Gazelle has integrated battery, which is deal breaker for me, lol.

Esprit C7 | Gazelle

De Gazelle Esprit C7 biedt een comfortabele zitpositie en krachtige ondersteuning. Ideaal voor dagelijks gebruik en ontspannen ritten. Ontdek het rijplezier!

www.gazelle.nl

There's also this. Thoughts on Shimano motor?

The version you linked has a rear rack mounted battery. Lower down on the page they provide the two options for the rack mounted battery. Is that a deal breaker if it's not integrated into the frame?

 

[satsujjjj]

The version you linked has a rear rack mounted battery. Lower down on the page they provide the two options for the rack mounted battery. Is that a deal breaker if it's not integrated into the frame?

Honestly, I've no idea. I've never tried any of e-bikes yet.
But from the pictures it seems like the battery is on the lower mid of frame?

Will go this friday to test drive on my free day, and will see how it feels.

 

[E-HP]

I only see the rack battery version when clicking the link, but there’s a yellow bike in one photo half way down the page of another bike with an integrated battery in the downtube.
I’m referring to the link in your first post. The “Paris”

 

[fill]

IMO built-in bikes cost a lot more than 'bolt on' bikes both initially and also whenever a service or fix is required.

Mid drive motors have a mechanical advantage using the bikes gearing for climbing hills and reaching fast speeds but cost more and have much higher maintenance/repair costs if the manufacturer allows repairs?

Best bet get a comfortable to ride cycle and apply a quality hub motor conversion kit, then if anything goes wrong you have known lower repair replacement costs..

 

[Chalo]

Ready made, major brand e-bikes are almost without exception overpriced, difficult and expensive to maintain, and loaded with proprietary parts and systems that limit your future options for the bike.

For the same money, you can build a bike with wildly better performance by any measure, and keep it running for much longer at much lower cost. So I think brand name e-bikes are best suited to folks with lots of money and no capabilities.

 

[E-HP]

Just an observation based on various posts, it seem that DIY kits are much more expensive in the Scandinavian countries, due to shipping and import fees than they are where I live. Seems like more than double. Enforcement also appears to be much stricter. For a 250W motor, a factory Bosch mid drive can do a lot with a small amount of assistance. The DIY options are slim for a 250W mid drive. There’s the TSDZ2, which I know you love, or maybe the BBS01; and a DIY 250W geared hub, will struggle on hills more than the mid and likely can’t produce the 40nm of the Bosch.

I’m pretty sure the OP only listed the bikes he can afford, and while DIY would provide more bang for the buck, if not restricted by legal limitations, these factory bikes eliminate any legal issues, and still provide enough assist to have fun. At the same time, the low level of assist shouldn’t cause as much drivetrain wear as something like a BBSHD or CYC mid drive, since a pro cyclist can put more power through the drivetrain without assist. If he’s on a ebike and having fun, that’s way better than driving around in a car; regardless of factory vs. DIY.

We may be mainly a DIY community, but I’m pretty sure any one of us can look at the specs on these bikes and identify the pros and cons of each and which one would be best if we were putting our hard earned money toward it, than someone who has never ridden an ebike. So maybe provide that expertise first, while encouraging the DIY route if the OP has “the capabilities”. I had a pet peeve when I was working; always answer the question posed first, before answering the questions that weren’t, or should have been, asked. The OP can make his decision from there.

satsujjjj, once you make your decision and start riding, you will quickly find things you like and things that could be better about your ebike. I'd encourage you to take notes, and ride the heck out of the ebike for a while. Some things may just be bike related. I wouldn't encourage any modifications to a factory ebike, since it's a frustrating, sometimes futile task that's also costly. You may want things like better mirrors or other accessories, which are fine, but things like more speed/more range will be difficult.
Nobody knows on day one of ebiking, what their perfect ebike is. Those that think they do, want one that goes 500 miles and 80 miles per hour or some other nonsense. But once you know, it's relatively easy to convert a bike that fits you comfortably, into exactly what you want. My ebike has not stopped changing since it's first iteration, several thousands of miles ago. It's pretty dialed in now, but lacks some feature that I had on earlier versions. And, I have a lot of parts in my parts box waiting to be installed, if I wasn't out riding every day, lol.
Just jump in, factory or DIY, you'll have fun regardless of which entry point you choose, but keep reading up here. No rule against having two ebikes, is there? Not where I live at least.

Oh ya, make sure you do a thorough test ride, not just two laps around the parking lot. Test the brakes, and do a couple of panic stops if you're up to it, You'll be going faster on an ebike. Ask them about the battery, and what kind of cells it's made with (this will make you sound informed). If you hear something like Samsung, LG, Panasonic, or other names you recognize, nod your head with approval. Shops in my area have some room on price or can throw in some accessories, not sure how it is there. Good luck.

 

[satsujjjj]

Ready made, major brand e-bikes are almost without exception overpriced, difficult and expensive to maintain, and loaded with proprietary parts and systems that limit your future options for the bike.

For the same money, you can build a bike with wildly better performance by any measure, and keep it running for much longer at much lower cost. So I think brand name e-bikes are best suited to folks with lots of money and no capabilities.

Not a lots of money, but no capabilities either.

Also, it's illegal here for e-bikes to assist over 25km/h(unless you've a license, then the limit is 30km/h on city and 40km/h outside of city on cycling paths, but I don't have a drivers license and I don't see a point in paying for AM license ) , so not sure how much more performance I would even get, not to mention amount of work I would have to do to learn and probably mess up a lot. So in the end it would be cheaper for me to get factory made bike

 

[Chalo]

Not a lots of money, but no capabilities either.

Also, it's illegal here for e-bikes to assist over 25km/h(unless you've a license, then the limit is 30km/h on city and 40km/h outside of city on cycling paths, but I don't have a drivers license and I don't see a point in paying for AM license ) ,

Check out Swytch Bike. It's a hub motor conversion, with modest performance, that isn't hard to install but can work with whatever bike you want to adapt. If all you want is 25 km/h, you can do that and not have to sacrifice serviceability or having your bike the way you like it.

 

[Az.]

Check out Swytch Bike. It's a hub motor conversion, with modest performance, that isn't hard to install but can work with whatever bike you want to adapt. If all you want is 25 km/h, you can do that and not have to sacrifice serviceability or having your bike the way you like it.

Oh no, no, no, no.... probably one of the worst conversions out there.

 

[Chalo]

Oh no, no, no, no.... probably one of the worst conversions out there.

Okay, I respect your opinion and I have minimal direct experience with it. I only know it as simple, easy to install, lightweight, and slow.

What's your concern with it? If it's front drive, then that's not any kind of problem at the power level the OP is asking about.

It is rather expensive for what it offers, but still cheaper than a major brand e-bike.

 

[Az.]

Okay, I respect your opinion and I have minimal direct experience with it. I only know it as simple, easy to install, lightweight, and slow.

What's your concern with it? If it's front drive, then that's not any kind of problem at the power level the OP is asking about.

It is rather expensive for what it offers, but still cheaper than a major brand e-bike.

It is just poor value for money. Overpriced for what it is as you said. One can get better and cheaper kits.
I have seen many customers complaining of poor or non existing customer service.
It is well established company, but they operate as startup. People sign up on a waiting list, pay money and then they wait 6 months, some even 12 months. I get anxious when I have to wait a week for motor or battery.

They are good at marketing though.
Also battery secured to frame by velcro straps is a bad idea IMO.

 

[E-HP]

It is just poor value for money. Overpriced for what it is as you said. One can get better and cheaper kits.
I have seen many customers complaining of poor or non existing customer service.
It is well established company, but they operate as startup. People sign up on a waiting list, pay money and then they wait 6 months, some even 12 months. I get anxious when I have to wait a week for motor or battery.

They are good at marketing though.
Also battery secured to frame by velcro straps is a bad idea IMO.

That's a kit best suited to folks with lots of money and no capabilities.

 

[Az.]

That's a kit best suited to folks with lots of money and no capabilities.

You mean as a punishment?

 

[Chalo]

I guess Ebikeling is the plug and play kit I have the most experience with. It's nothing special, but it works, didn't cost too much the last time I looked, and never failed when I was witness to it. It is so generic that it would be the equivalent of a piecemeal DIY system when it comes time to troubleshoot and replace components.

There are a few different power levels and both geared and direct drive kits sold under that brand, so the OP should home in on sub-500W and geared.

 

[Az.]

I guess Ebikeling is the plug and play kit I have the most experience with.

Don't think they sell EU legal kits. Still quite expensive.
Yosepower would be European equivalent.

 

[Chalo]

Don't think they sell EU legal kits. Still quite expensive.
Yosepower would be European equivalent.

Looks like sub-$400 USD not including battery. Not bad, not excellent-- but a whole other story compared to turnkey bikes from major manufacturers. The kits sold for under $300 without battery the last time I set somebody up with one.

For what it's worth, I recently repaired and rehabilitated an Oraimo Monster 100 super cheap e-bike at work. It was both the cheapest complete e-bike I've ever worked on, and not nearly as bad as anything else in the sub-$1000 range that I've worked on. It's currently selling in the USA for under $400, and though it will need another significant money outlay to tune it up well enough for regular use and to put decent tires on it, it's really not at all bad value if it fits you (you must be approximately global average sized). I was pleasantly surprised. Mail order e-bikes costing hundreds of dollars more are consistently much more wretched.

 

[Az.]

Looks like sub-$400 USD not including battery.

£356 including 13Ah battery

36V250W 27.5"/28" Rear E-Bike Conversion Kit for Cassette with 36V13Ah

1.Technical Data and Packing list PACKING LIST (EBK36250R275KB+13HL1) Item Description Quantity Remarks 1 27.5"/28" Wheel with Rear Motor 1 36V250W Rear Motor, Installation Width=138mm, Diameter=134mm.Gearshift: Fit for Cassette Freewheel(8S/9S/10S)12G black spokes with double wall 27.5"/28"...

www.yosepower.co.uk

Nothing special, but all included and cheap.

Best value for money in Europe you can get at PSW Power IMO.

 

[E-HP]

Which of these kits has a torque sensing PAS, and has 40nm for the hills, for an apples to apples comparison? Ive seen the same ladies riding those bikes daily over the last couple of years, almost rain or shine, and they are serious about their riding. I wouldn’t take a chance at telling them they bought the wrong bike and need to buy a kit, or they’d kick my butt. The battery packs seem to be doing their job. Bosche makes a good reliable motor.

 

[Az.]

Which of these kits has a torque sensing PAS, and has 40nm for the hills,

OP didn't ask for torque sensing PAS, but I can provide such link if required. Chalo probably mentioned front wheel conversion because it is easiest to install, so no torque sensor.
...and since when they have hills in NL?

 

[E-HP]

He didn't ask for DIY advice either, but everyone wants to go off topic. Sorry, I'm just not opposed to someone having fun riding around on a store bought ebike. Seems fine, and not something that requires coercing or insults to motivate them to do otherwise, even after he wisely attempted to defuse them, "Not a lots of money, but no capabilities either" and provided his reasoning. When did listening go out of style on this forum?

Stop giving advice to people who don't ask for it

As a leader or a manager, it's your duty to offer guidance and advice to your team members. However, it's important to remember that not everyone wants or needs your input.

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