Increasing speed with new battery and controller

[George]

Hello,

I have an older Prodeco Outlaw SS with a 750 watt motor. The bike is in decent shape and the battery is all but used up. Instead of rebuilding the battery or buying one for $799 (Really?) I would like to replace the controller with a higher rated one such as a 6,9 or 12fet 72 volt as well as a 72 volt 20 or 30 AH Battery to spice things up a bit.

Anyone with specifics on whether the existing motor can handle the applied pressure and where would be the best place to get the components for a decent price would be greatly appreciated.

 

[dogman dan]

More volts will definitely increase your top speed, and if wattage is increased along with volts, then you will see a big increase in how perky the bike rides.

72v 40amps is possible for the motor, but if you ride it hard enough, you can melt them with that much watts. (3000w). 72v 30 amps would be a good compromise. That's more like 2000-2500w.

Bear in mind as always, your local laws. a 40 mph ebike is generally illegal to ride on the street in most of the USA.

72v 30 ah would be a huge battery. Over 2000 watt hours. How will you carry it?

 

[melodious]

I've seen a Prodeco Outlaw in person that was chained outside a store and gave it a look over. If you're going to feed the motor more power (especially amps) in an attempt to reach 40mph, the phase wires will need to be upgraded (it has the dinky 6 pin "XLR" type connectors) and the torque plate needs to be replaced and beefed up (it's only 2-3mm thick on an aluminum dropout).

 

[dogman dan]

Yep, if that's what the motor cable looks like, that's about at it's limit right now.

You'd need to cut that original motor wire, and replace with beefier plug contacts for the phases, and 12g wire to the controller for the phases. Once you eliminate the phases from that stock motor wire, no problem to continue to use the original wire and plug for the halls. Likely your new high power controller won't use the original display either btw.

 

[George]

OK. I am not an ebike Genius and am just now starting to learn more about them. What would be my best option to speed up the bike and yes I know that going over 20 MPH without pedaling is frowned upon. I live in rural south florida and am over 250lbs. The the best speed I get is 26 MPH. The bike and battery are only 7 months old and the battery is already on its way out. It works about half as well as when new and I use it a lot.

Could I get away with 60 volts and not fry the wiring and or controller?

And if not please give me a parts list to get what I need and where to get them.

I can get a 12 FET 4110 Mark II Extreme Modder LYEN Edition Controller and a BMS 72 volt 15 AH Battery to start.

 

[dnmun]

there is no way to know if that controller will handle higher voltage. it may be possible to figure out why your battery is not producing the power it did before. i don't think anyone has started a thread to boost performance of a turn key prodeco bike.

 

[George]

The battery has been used a lot. Charged twice a day, everyday for seven months. It is probably just worn out. Regardless, it never did provide enough juice for the long rides I take daily.

Should I start a thread with that title?

 

[dnmun]

first would be to see if the controller can handle higher voltage, then use that battery plus another one to get to the higher voltage to see if it has a high voltage cutout which some of these turnkey bikes seem to have. i have never seen one myself and i wonder if the people who say they have a high voltage cutoff actually know what they are talking about but it would be best to find out before buying a higher voltage battery imo.

maybe a different motor and controller on a different bike with a 48V battery would get you closer to what you wanna do. then you are into the more generic options for a faster bike and conserve this one as a backup. just philosophical about the hassles coming. but if you open the controller we can look at the parts to see how much voltage it will take and what to modify to do that.

 

[ic3wall]

If you decide to change your controller, I might have what you're looking for:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=64697

 

[George]

Upgrading a Prodeco Outlaw SS 48 volt to a higher voltage and larger capacity battery. I really wanted to go with 72 volts but afraid of frying the phase wires and having to add a tourque arm. I can replace them no problem but do not want to take off the rear wheel and go through getting into the motor itself.

I did find a 60 or 72 volt controller from Lyen that will fit perfectly where the existing 48 volt controller goes and it will match up with the hall sensors fine. I have found a good price on a 60 volt 15 AH Lipo 4 battery from BMS battery and can rig it to the rear rack no problem. Do you think that I can get away with only replacing the controller and battery (60 volts) without replacing the wiring harness and if I do need to upgrade the harness,does anyone know where to get one? It is approx 2.5 feet from controller to motor.

I would appreciate the thoughts you may have on this.

 

[dnmun]

it is not that raising the voltage will fry the phase wires. like i said, it depends on the ability of the components in the controller to handle the higher voltage. it is a common upgrade on the regular kit controllers. just higher voltage caps and add some resistance to the voltage dropping resistor on the input

 

[spinningmagnets]

Using larger diameter phase wires is usually only needed if you are going to run higher amps, the stock wires and motor should be good for 72V.

The common complaint I've read the most about Prodeco Tech is the very weak cargo rack breaking. The only owner I've talked to was pretty happy with the rest of the 48V version.

 

[George]

OK then. I will go ahead and get the 72 volt controller from Lyen and upgrade to a 72 volt 15 AH battery and hope for the best.

 

[dnmun]

open that controller and look inside, and take a picture.

it may be easiest to just upgrade that controller to 72V if the mosfets will handle it. i have some 100V1000uF caps that i bot on ebay i sell for cheap too. plus the power resistor. if you are in the US.

 

[George]

I purchased a 72 volt 6 FET 4110 Mark II Mini Monster LYEN Edition Controller from California and pairing it with a 72 volt 15 AH LIPO4 battery from BMS and hoping that it works out. Thanks for the comments.

 

[George]

OK. I am weighing out some things that maybe you folks can give some feedback on.

I am replacing the 48 volt Prodeco battery with another battery or battreries in series. There are so many choices between voltage, amp hours, size, and type. Lithium ion, Lifepo4, ect... There is also discharge rate. 15 amps, 30 amps, 40 amps, ect...
Due to the weight and 800 cycles probably lasting a few years I am thinking of Lithium Ion due to its reduced weight over Lifepo4.

1) What discharge rate would I look for? The controller has a maximum of 50 amps.

2) Should I go with a battery with a built in BMS?

3) Since I am looking for quick take off speed could I hook 36 & 48 volt battery in series to give me 84 volts.

 

[wesnewell]

Welcome to ES****Do this before your first post or now (it's retroactive)*****
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If you're going to use a 50A controller, you need a battery pack that can output 50A without stressing it. if you want something that won't sag like an old womans teats, then use rc lipo.

 

[Racer_X]

I've seen a Prodeco Outlaw in person that was chained outside a store and gave it a look over. If you're going to feed the motor more power (especially amps) in an attempt to reach 40mph, the phase wires will need to be upgraded (it has the dinky 6 pin "XLR" type connectors) and the torque plate needs to be replaced and beefed up (it's only 2-3mm thick on an aluminum dropout).

OK. I am weighing out some things that maybe you folks can give some feedback on.

I am replacing the 48 volt Prodeco battery with another battery or battreries in series. There are so many choices between voltage, amp hours, size, and type. Lithium ion, Lifepo4, ect... There is also discharge rate. 15 amps, 30 amps, 40 amps, ect...
Due to the weight and 800 cycles probably lasting a few years I am thinking of Lithium Ion due to its reduced weight over Lifepo4.

1) What discharge rate would I look for? The controller has a maximum of 50 amps.
2) Should I go with a battery with a built in BMS?
3) Since I am looking for quick take off speed could I hook 36 & 48 volt battery in series to give me 84 volts.

1. As melodious eluded to earlier. If you keep the stock phase wires i would not go over 25 to 30amps max. You will reach a speed of around 60km/h(37mph) I know this because a friend of mine went up to 72v with 25amps and the same kind of phase wires.
If you go higher than 30 amps be prepared to replace phase wire connectors on a regular basis.
2. BMS is for beginners, Are you a beginner?
3. You could connect 36 & 48 volt batteries in series to give you 84 volts but that will only increase your top speed NOT your quick take off.
For quicker take offs upgrade phase wires or better yet just get a bigger higher torque motor.
Think of it like this, it is like hotrodding a Volkswagen. If you want real performance get a Porsche. (Though a performance hub motor is going to be alot cheaper. Think MXUS 3000w)

 

[rider95]

the forks on my E bike are off of a outlaw bought them new from E bay for $200 I am running a mac 10 it use's a 12.5 HPC battery @ 52v I get about 22mi on the flat and around 14 mi for the trails top speed 28 plenty fast . In fact I am heading to crystal river fl as I write this to do some trail rideing over the holidays

 

[George]

Racer_X - Sounds good and Thanks for the info.

Rider 95 - Hope you have a good time on the trails.