Instant Start 18 fet Infineon Boards are here...

[methods]

I ordered a set of 500uOhm 4W shunt resistors for the 6 fet Infineons.
If anyone would like to try one of those (which will hobble your 18 fet and limit the top end current) I can supply one instead of the supplied 250uOhm.
They cost about a buck.

I have procured a Crystalyte version of the 18 fet controller.
It will be here this week. I intend to do a through visual analysis to determine the differences in populated components/values.
I will also confirm that they can be programmed with our Software.

-methods

 

[Scorefield]

Hey Methods I'm still looking forward to yours 18fet controllers.*thumbs up*
The more time passes, the closer we are to the final product of yours controllers.

More power, the better is the ride and if those 500uOhm 4W shunt resistors will improve the ride, then please sign me up and I stop bugging you on the email :lol:

Even you have a good looking wifey as you showing on the first pic, but somehow my eyes would just rather look at yours bike all the time, silly me....anyway Grats and thanks for all the help in advance.

 

[recumpence]

Let me know when you have more 4110s in stock. I want a few for a couple projects. :wink:

I am curious, why is this the first time a decent controller like this is being built? There obviously is a market for it.

Matt

 

[bigmoose]

Methods,

I know I am a little late to the party, but sincere congratulations on your recent marriage!! May you have a most happy and blessed life together!

Getting married was the best thing I did, and I wouldn't trade the time with my two daughters for anything else in life. The joy is truly in the journey.

Take care,
BigMoose

 

[liveforphysics]

Methy- Your marriage just got blessed by BigMoose. That's an honor I also hope to one day receive.



I know Methy knows BigMoose from way back, but most of the rest of this board likely doesn't.

BigMoose is a hero. This has so much brain power, and so much kindness and love, I swear he was sent by God to show the full potential a human being can have.
This guy is mind blowingly smart, and yet humble, and so functionally capable and kind. If there was ever a scale to weigh the value of a persons mind, we could load up all 10,000members of this board on one side of the scale, put BigMoose's mind on the other side, and it would tip to BigMoose.

Just by the example of his humbleness and kindness, he helped to change my life for the better. This man enriched my life, just through getting to experience how someone so smart can also be a kind loving person to everyone.

Living legend. Helped to land man on the moon. More degrees's than the staff of a university science department. Developed and innovated more amazing projects than most small countries have done. NASA contracts to this man when they have projects that are more difficult than NASA can handle on it's own. Last project I heard he was working on was a radioactive isotope decay Stirling engine to power spacecraft that will be too far from the sun for solar.



It is an honor to have you take the time to join our humble community Moose. I can only imagine what amazing innovations you will come up with to advance E-bike design.

With much Love and Respect,
-Luke

 

[methods]

All true about BigMoose.

Luke - what did I say about taking those extasy pills I sold you before posting on the forum

-methods

 

[bigmoose]

Gents, so much for sneaking in the side door quietly!

But I do sincerely appreciate both of you. You have been an inspiration to me also! Luke, I actually looked at a GSXR-1000 last week... but my daughter brought me back to reality... -something about her wanting "Grandpa to be around for her kids..." Methods, really impressed with you work here. Will talk more, I am sure. Press on, let the coulombs rock & roll...

 

[stator]

I was playing around with the programming on my 18 fet controller (which is working well) with my friend, a Taiwan native. He was looking at the Chinese version of the software and said the translation for the box we call "Guard Level" should be "Anti Theft". Does anyone have any idea what that might do?

--Bill

 

[methods]

Yea - there is a bike alarm (along with a lot of other stuff) built in.
At one point someone (Brett?) posted up a link to a Chinese forum where they were talking about all the features.
Search around the other Infineon threads for "alarm" or "theft". I think a few people have figured it out.

-methods

 

[Doctorbass]

Yea - there is a bike alarm (along with a lot of other stuff) built in.
At one point someone (Brett?) posted up a link to a Chinese forum where they were talking about all the features.
Search around the other Infineon threads for "alarm" or "theft". I think a few people have figured it out.

-methods

Maybe i am dreaming.. but is there something in the translated program i saw in the setup about alarm?..
or "SECURITY POWER LEVEL": 0: none 1: Include

Oh.. Method, About the crystalyte 18 mosfet version.. I confirm.. I succeded to program it

Doc

 

[methods]

Good job Doc!
Welcome to the world of adjustable parameters.

On my box(s) the shunt is 250uOhms and I set the battery and phase current to Max.
I dont know what this actually equates to but I often times see peaks to 160A and I can pull well over 100A for several seconds.

-methods

 

[docnjoj]

Hey Methods. Roger that on the smart women marriage thing. I married a genius, and you apparently did too! She's a Physicist, AIRC. Best wishes for a long happy marriage. Smart women keep us humble!
otherDoc

 

[bikeman]

Hi there,
I'm putting together a kit, haven't received any sensors or motors yet. So I dont know how the connectors etc look like. I have compiled this list of wirering from this thread and others. Please check if I got it right, maybe it could serve as a start for reference/instruction?

For Phase wires,
a - Blue
b - Green
c - Yellow

Somewhere I read crystalyte standard would be: A Green, B Blue, C Yellow, What is the standard for the motors?

Hall sensors,
+5v - 5v Hall
Sa - Blue
Sb - Green
Sc - Yellow
Gnd-1 - Ground

Programmer shipped with a mating header connector.
Solder that into the row of holes right above the date stamp.
Orientate it to the left. You can confirm you have it right by seeing that the red/orange go to +5 and the black goes to ground.

BK linked to ground permantly, to activate eBrake feature, the actual braking is done via EBS- and Ground. MUST have diode D32 to work.
EBS- and GND (a switch ebrake between) will activate the brakes
EBS+ is for a +12 v brake light found in say a car or a motorbike on earlyer boards this worked as the transistor Q6 is required and was surface mounted on these boards it is not the transistor is missing there is just 3 holes (NPN) Q Pinout?
SP throttle input ,
TB is to do with security, apperently You can set active low or high in software, wich locks the wheel (eBrake i suppose) connects to a separate alarm.
TA is the input for a pedelec sensor.
CR and GND (momentary switch between) cruise control: the way it works is that you turn the throttle as far as you want to then press the cruise control switch you then let the throttle return to rest and the controller will ceep the motor going at throttle place you had it in UNTIL either the Ebrake is applied ,the throttle is turned or the cruise controll is presesd again,

Powerswitch
Connect the switch between V+batt (anywhere) and VCC-L

CA
Black is +5, Yellow is GND, Red is signal.
Throttle feedback from CA, requires a diod and a resistor, hook in to SP (throttle line).
CA connector, where to wire the Hall to the amplified hall circuitry on the board?
Attach it to any of the three hall signals, A, B, or C.

Q I have a Pickup for front wheel spoke magnet, could I just cut this wire and connect it to any of the hall signals?

Q Why is there a shunt - and a shunt +? Is it for the occasion when the shunt is'nt connected to (either of) Ground or batt+ direcly? Could you just wire CA shunt- to ground in this case? Outside the controller. and only supply the shunt+?

resistors network in 48V, 72V, 100V? Here are the suggested values:
1.8 || 1.8 || 1.8
input 70v~ 105v
1.5 || 1.5 || 1.5
input 60v~ 86v
1.8 || 1.8 || 0.68
input 50v~64v
1.5 || 1.5 || 0.68
input 30v~54v

 

[lesdit]

Just wondering if I can order one of these controllers, since it's been 3 mo. since the thread started.
I emailed ecrazyman, but no response yet.

 

[stator]

Hi there,
I'm putting together a kit, haven't received any sensors or motors yet. So I dont know how the connectors etc look like. I have compiled this list of wirering from this thread and others. Please check if I got it right, maybe it could serve as a start for reference/instruction?

For Phase wires,
a - Blue
b - Green
c - Yellow

Somewhere I read crystalyte standard would be: A Green, B Blue, C Yellow, What is the standard for the motors?

I don't think there is any standard. You might have to try all 6 possible combination to find which one works.

Hall sensors,
+5v - 5v Hall
Sa - Blue
Sb - Green
Sc - Yellow
Gnd-1 - Ground

According to the xie-chang documentation:
60 ° - ... SA,SB,SC sequence: Green,Blue,Yellow.

120 °- ... SA,SB,SC sequence: Yellow, Blue,Green.

I used the 120 ° setting and it worked with a X5 motor and a 9C motor. The phase wires were different between the two motors though.

Programmer shipped with a mating header connector.
Solder that into the row of holes right above the date stamp.
Orientate it to the left. You can confirm you have it right by seeing that the red/orange go to +5 and the black goes to ground.

BK linked to ground permantly, to activate eBrake feature, the actual braking is done via EBS- and Ground. MUST have diode D32 to work.
EBS- and GND (a switch ebrake between) will activate the brakes
EBS+ is for a +12 v brake light found in say a car or a motorbike on earlyer boards this worked as the transistor Q6 is required and was surface mounted on these boards it is not the transistor is missing there is just 3 holes (NPN) Q Pinout?
SP throttle input ,
TB is to do with security, apperently You can set active low or high in software, wich locks the wheel (eBrake i suppose) connects to a separate alarm.
TA is the input for a pedelec sensor.
CR and GND (momentary switch between) cruise control: the way it works is that you turn the throttle as far as you want to then press the cruise control switch you then let the throttle return to rest and the controller will ceep the motor going at throttle place you had it in UNTIL either the Ebrake is applied ,the throttle is turned or the cruise controll is presesd again,

There are two ways to use the cruise control. In manual mode, it works as you described. You can also tie CR to ground permanently to choose automatic mode. Then when the throttle is held steady for a time specified in the Paramater Designer software (like 10 seconds), it will go into cruise mode.

Powerswitch
Connect the switch between V+batt (anywhere) and VCC-L

CA
Black is +5, Yellow is GND, Red is signal.
Throttle feedback from CA, requires a diod and a resistor, hook in to SP (throttle line).
CA connector, where to wire the Hall to the amplified hall circuitry on the board?
Attach it to any of the three hall signals, A, B, or C.

Install a NPN transistor (like 2N5551) at location QSA and use the HE pin is the best.

Q I have a Pickup for front wheel spoke magnet, could I just cut this wire and connect it to any of the hall signals?

The hall signal is already in the 6 wire cable. Just remove the pickup and connect the yellow wire to the Sp pin.

Q Why is there a shunt - and a shunt +? Is it for the occasion when the shunt is'nt connected to (either of) Ground or batt+ direcly? Could you just wire CA shunt- to ground in this case? Outside the controller. and only supply the shunt+?

The idea is to create a kelvin (4 wire) connection to the shunt. You can read more about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-terminal_sensing

resistors network in 48V, 72V, 100V? Here are the suggested values:
1.8 || 1.8 || 1.8
input 70v~ 105v
1.5 || 1.5 || 1.5
input 60v~ 86v
1.8 || 1.8 || 0.68
input 50v~64v
1.5 || 1.5 || 0.68
input 30v~54v

 

[methods]

Hi there,
I'm putting together a kit, haven't received any sensors or motors yet. So I dont know how the connectors etc look like. I have compiled this list of wirering from this thread and others. Please check if I got it right, maybe it could serve as a start for reference/instruction?

We can try to help

For Phase wires,
a - Blue
b - Green
c - Yellow

I prefer
A = Yellow
B = Green
C = Blue

Somewhere I read crystalyte standard would be: A Green, B Blue, C Yellow, What is the standard for the motors?


Hall sensors,
+5v - 5v Hall
Sa - Blue
Sb - Green
Sc - Yellow
Gnd-1 - Ground

Same as above, I prefer A=Yellow, B=Green, C=Blue
Standards? lol...

Programmer shipped with a mating header connector.
Solder that into the row of holes right above the date stamp.
Orientate it to the left. You can confirm you have it right by seeing that the red/orange go to +5 and the black goes to ground.

I sent you a pair of 4pin connectors.
Throw away the header
Solder in one of the 4 pin connectors (the one with the protected pins)
Outside the controller, cut the USB cable and solder the mating 4 pin connector to that.
When you wish to program, plug the USB cable into the computer, hit GO, then plug in the 4 pin connector
This will flash the chip.

If you use the header then you end up with 30' of USB cable bundled up on your bike when you almost never use it.
Look at my pictures for a color code or make one up by inspecting the pin locations on the header.

BK linked to ground permantly, to activate eBrake feature, the actual braking is done via EBS- and Ground. MUST have diode D32 to work.
EBS- and GND (a switch ebrake between) will activate the brakes
EBS+ is for a +12 v brake light found in say a car or a motorbike on earlyer boards this worked as the transistor Q6 is required and was surface mounted on these boards it is not the transistor is missing there is just 3 holes (NPN) Q Pinout?
SP throttle input ,
TB is to do with security, apperently You can set active low or high in software, wich locks the wheel (eBrake i suppose) connects to a separate alarm.
TA is the input for a pedelec sensor.
CR and GND (momentary switch between) cruise control: the way it works is that you turn the throttle as far as you want to then press the cruise control switch you then let the throttle return to rest and the controller will ceep the motor going at throttle place you had it in UNTIL either the Ebrake is applied ,the throttle is turned or the cruise controll is presesd again,

Thanks for the info.

Powerswitch
Connect the switch between V+batt (anywhere) and VCC-L

Yes. I like to drill a hole for the connector on the back cover, uppper left corner. If you set it up right it will "lock" itself in there so that it wont turn when you tighten it. Just leave clearance for the caps and fets.

CA
Black is +5, Yellow is GND, Red is signal.
Throttle feedback from CA, requires a diod and a resistor, hook in to SP (throttle line).
CA connector, where to wire the Hall to the amplified hall circuitry on the board?
Attach it to any of the three hall signals, A, B, or C.

BE VERY CAREFUL!
There are 3 different pigtails running around!!!
None of them match the CA standard
Please refer to the CA directions for pin locations.

You dont need the throttle feedback - you can hook it to the ebrake if you are lazy but you will lose functionality.
I have a few suggestions:

Hall: Go through the hole on the board and catch one of the hall signals on the bottom of the board. This is easier. You dont need an amplified hall signal.

Shunt: There is an extra hole on the GND side of the shunt. Use this for both the negative reference and the CA ground. On the top side of the shunt you can trace the sense trace coming off. Go over half an inch and scrape away the mask from the trace. Solder in the high side of the shunt there and you will be sure to get a true 4Wire reading.

If I sent you a 250uOhm shunt then cut Keywins shunt off the board and solder mine on the BOTTOM. There is a spot where it fits perfect. You will probably read between 300uOhms and 320uOhms when all is said and done.

Q I have a Pickup for front wheel spoke magnet, could I just cut this wire and connect it to any of the hall signals?

Yes. Go into the CA and cut the two black wires (they go to the hall input and GND). Dig the hall wire out of the loom and solder it into the hall input on the CA.
This is a much cleaner way to go with more resolution.

Q Why is there a shunt - and a shunt +? Is it for the occasion when the shunt is'nt connected to (either of) Ground or batt+ direcly? Could you just wire CA shunt- to ground in this case? Outside the controller. and only supply the shunt+?

NO
The CA ground and shunt - must be as close to each other as possible and must be right at the bottom of the shunt. Whatever distance you put the CA GND + Shunt - from the actual bottom of the shunt will not only add to your shunt resistance, but could throw your readings off. Please tie them together as shown right at the shunt. If you use an external shunt, then tie them together at that shunt.

The Shunt measurement is a very sensitive measurement...

resistors network in 48V, 72V, 100V? Here are the suggested values:
1.8 || 1.8 || 1.8
input 70v~ 105v
1.5 || 1.5 || 1.5
input 60v~ 86v
1.8 || 1.8 || 0.68
input 50v~64v
1.5 || 1.5 || 0.68
input 30v~54v

Yes. Dont forget to rub off one of the 3 base resistors and replace them with the 3W 3Kohm resistor I sent you.

Sounds like you are well on your way.
A trick may be to search the thread with the term "methods".
I write "methods" at the end of every single post I make - This will make it easier for you to find pictures of these things.
I have taken pictures of everything - they are just spread about.

Ask away if you find any more questions.

-methods

 

[bikeman]

Thanx for help, It is all getting clearer.

Stator: Havent heard of Kelvin, (well of Lord Kelvin of course, but not of the 4 connection setting)

I'm thinking of adding a 12V dc-dc converter for lights, GPS, cigarette lighter etc. Would it be possible to connect this 12V to VCC-L, skip all the resistors and get a true all voltage (in the range of the DC-DC) controller?

I didn't receive a 250uOhm shunt, but is this necessary? Isn't the regulation of amps done in the software now? This mod came before the software was translated?

 

[icecube57]

I would get a T tap and just tap off the pack.
You can tap a point inside the controller but I wouldnt do it. Just more stuff to go wrong that you cant see. I have a 36v tap on my pack for running accessories powered by a DC to DC thingy in the future.

The amps are controlled by the controller but you cant make a 45A shunt pump out 150A without modification. So you have to lower the resistance of it to trick the controller. into controlling more current than its used to. The lower the shunt value the cooler it will run also. I think.

 

[methods]

Just look for a switching power supply... Like a Laptop brick.
It is common to find laptop bricks that put out 14V 5A
That is perfect for anything that is compatible with a car cigarette lighter - even a 110V DC inverter so that you can plug other stuff in.

Look in the technical reference area under Switchers or Switching Power Supply. I wrote up one of the supplies I found.
They will work for any DC voltage over 50V

As far as the shunt - you should "solder" the shunt or you will find that the software limits your peak current.
You also must lower the shunt resistance to allow it to handle the heat.
The heat on the shunt = I^2*R so... The lower the resistance of the shunt the lower the heat - and - consequently, the more consistant the current reading will be over temperature.

No- you dont need the 250uOhm shunt at all. It is just nice because it saves time.

-methods

 

[lesdit]

What gods do us ebike mortals have to pray to to get this controller ?
Sorry to interrupt your thread.

 

[diver]

is there a place to buy a one all put together ?
thanks

 

[methods]

I sell the kits for $145 each.
These include the case, controller, all the wires, all the pigtails, the 4110 mosfets, the USB programmer, connectors, shunt, button, etc. All the things I use when I build one up. Only thing you would need would be your mating connectors, maybe some heat shrink, solder, some regular house wire to build up the traces with, etc.

I have sold completed kits and people want to buy them all the time.
Trouble is that it is too much work for me to assemble them - and I am too nice to charge what they should cost - so usually I dont sell them.
I dont like feeling like I charged too much for something - you know?

Otherwise you can buy one similar to this controller from Crystalyte with 18 4110 mosfets.
If you buy that controller, replace the battery and phase wires, do the 3k base mod, solder up the shunt, build up the traces a little, install the USB, etc. you could basically make one of these controllers but in a bigger box.

I have dropped the idea of manufacturing these because looking around... I see that many others have the same idea and by the time I had my processes in place - Kenny will be selling them for half what I can using slave labor in China

-methods

 

[bikeman]

The reason I asked was that in Sams Schematics over the internal power supply there is a wire going to uP Vsens, and I thought that maybe the microcontroller would be confused in some way. But that doesn't happen if I connect a DC-DC regulated voltage? The controller will just sense the nice output from the DC-DC. While using the CA to switch of at low voltage to save the battery pack, maybe there is no need for the controller Vsense?

 

[methods]

If you want to bypass the regulator you would still need to feed the uC with the Vbat signal otherwise it will shut down.
The uC has a self protection feature at ~20ishsomething volts

I say keep it simple.
Dont fool with the internal supply.

If you really want to replace that supply do it with one of those nice little dime size switchers that cost $30 bucks.
I have one here on my desk that will drop anything from 6.2V - 36V down to either 5.0V or 3.3V @ 500mA
Only requires 2 external caps - nice little package. There are many others.

I think I have 4 kits left then thats it.

-methods

 

[ZapPat]

I have dropped the idea of manufacturing these because looking around... I see that many others have the same idea and by the time I had my processes in place - Kenny will be selling them for half what I can using slave labor in China
-methods

I totally read ya here, Methods. This is the key issue I might be facing with my own controller eventually, since I have goals similar to Justin's CA production which means keeping production as local as possible. I really wonder sometimes how the Chinese men and women working in these controller assembly places are treated (conditions), and also if their salaries are [relatively] OK? Somehow I don't think the owners of such factories would be very interested in openly sharing this type of info. :|

Ethics make life complicated sometimes... but more 'complete' too at the same time I guess.