Internally Geared Hubs

BungaEBiker

BungaEBiker

100 W
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
109
I have been toying with the idea of getting an internally geared hub for my Cruiser. The supplied Shimano 6 speed dérailleur keeps jumping gears. It's very touchy. I have to get it adjusted ever few months and it's starting to get irritating. I have two choices in mind the Sturmey Archer 8speed or the Sturmey Archer 3speed. The bike has a front hub motor so I don't need the granny gear and I'm not looking for speed I just want reliability and simplicity. I also like the look of the internally geared hubs because it looks more clean then a dérailleur and all that. My Cruiser is a semi stretch and has no front dérailleur, it also has a chain guard. Any thoughts or suggestions on this would be appreciated. If you think you have a better solution then the Sturmey archer remember I'm working on a small budget here and I want to keep cost to a minimum I can get either of the Sturmey Archers for under $200.00 CDN delivered. If you have a better suggestion then the Shimano dérailleur please let me know. Thanks in advance.


Jason.

8 Speed
http://smartbikeparts.com/search_details.php?itm=HU2215
3 Speed
http://smartbikeparts.com/search_details.php?itm=HU2209
 
an internally geared hub motor only has one gear inside it, to make the electric motor spin at a different ratio. It will not replace a derailleur!
 
**edited - I need to read closer :)
-Mike
 
I think BungaEbiker just wants reliable gears in the back. SA and Shimano both are pretty good but I only have experience with their 3 speed rear gears. They are both quite strong and cheap! I built a 3 speed rear for my grandkids Mongoose CX 450 and it has held up for over 2 years of "extreme" dirt riding.
otherDoc
 
I would avoid the Sturmy Archer 8 speed. Its unique in that it's 1st gear is 1:1 and all the other gears are over drive. That makes it somewhat weaker and less efficent than a Shimano Nexus or other brand 7 and 8 speeds.

The 3 speed is bullitproof.

There is a 5 speed based on the 3 speed. it adds 1 more gear above and below the standard 3 speed, with almost the same range as the 8 speed. (~260% VS 300%) its also bullet proof. I have one and love it. It was a pain in the a$$ to track one down. my bike shop had to order it special direct from Sturmy Archer. But I got it with a built in drum brake.
 
If you want a reconditioned SA hub, I have a contact that will sell one for like 30$ Canadian. Don't know if he'll ship across Canada though. PM for info.

Katou
 
Drunkskunk so what your saying is the 8 speed doesn't have the easier gears it goes up from a 1 to 1 in dificulty? Dang that's kinda useless. I've got my eye on a three speed kit that has everything and I'm thinking that's the one I'm going to get. I went to my local bicycle shops and to have the hub laced into the rim I have is going to be between $40 and $60, which isn't that bad at all. I'm hopeless when it comes to wheel lacing, I know how to do it but I'd be working away at it for 6 months. LOL. Thanks for the info guy's it's greatly appreciated.
 
Aebike.com usually has the best prices for IGH's - also free shipping on orders $75>. Last I checked, their SA 3-speeds run from $59 to about $75 depending on what brake you use. The SA 8-speed discussed is primarily for small wheeled folders - that's why it's 1st gear is direct and is therefor NOT suitable for 26" wheels. Personally, I like the SRAM's iM3-speed. Arguably the best shifting 3-speed available - certainly better than Sturmey's.

http://aebike.com/parts-accessories-catalog-qc30/internally-geared-hubs-t475.htm
 
Thanks Papa that appears to be the cheapest place for NEW hubs. I will be ordering one today. Thanks for the tip.
 
Drunkskunk I can't find the five speed SA anywhere. I can find the eight and the three but it's like a dirty little secret that no one want's to admit exists. I can find it on the SA home page but no one who stacks internally geared hubs has one or ever carry's it. I was talking to the guys at my local bike shops and they are very wary of any internally geared hub at all. They keep bleating on and on about dérailleurs and how much better they are. In an attempt to work with them I put it to them like this. SO if a dérailleur is so much better whey do I have to get mine adjusted so much? The only answer they would give is that my bike was not meant to have one and the set up is pretty shoddy. so I asked if they could improve on it and i got nothing. so I said that if they couldn't improve on what was there then the internally geared hub would be my most logical step to improve my ability to shift gears and not nearly nut myself when the gears jump on a hill. I don't know about anyone else but several times now I have been up on the pedals trying to get up a hill and my gears have jumped and I nearly castrated myself on the handlebar stem. I DON"T EVERY WANT TO DO THAT AGAIN, after the thrid time I just stood there the bike on it side on the side of the road and contemplated just leaving it there and walking away. Then the rational portion of my brain came back on line and i picked up the bike and fixed it. On a more positive isde I did see the ultimate hub drive though, the NuVinci. (Homer Drool) I would SOOOO love to have one of those but alas i don't have $450.00 for just a hub. On the other hand some of those other hubs are quite pricey. I saw a Rolholf that was like $1400.00 and I nearly SHIRT myself. That hub is impressive but it's worth more then my entire E-Bike. That is complete craziness. Who has that much money for just one component. Geez
 
SA doesn't import them to north america for retail sale, but they do import them as an OEM for some cargo bikes so the distributors do have them. It takes a bike shop who cares enough to make a few calls to get one, though. About all bike shops order from 2 main distributor comanies in north america, so its not hard to get. I realy like having the extra low gear, and the extra high. having the drum brake instead of the coaster brake was real nice, too.
 
Now Drunkskunk brought up something I have been wondering about. Is a drum brake better then a V brake on an E-bike? I saw a Velomobile the other day and he had Drum brakes and he had a Bionx kit set up on his rear wheel. The other thing is I see allot of Cargo bikes with Drum Brakes and I was wondering if they have better stopping power. I know they do in the rain but I was wondering overall?
 
Forget the SA XRD5 series. They're CRAP. I'm stuck with one on a $1400 english roadster, and I cannot get it to work. The shifters are crap, the hub cannot be shifted under load, skips gears all the time, grinds out of first about 10% of the time - forget it. Just forget it. Get yourself a Shimano Nexus and then you can forget it - in a good way. I will be dumping my SA hub in the next week for either an SA 3 speed or a Nexus 8 speed. You do get what you pay for!!
 
I have two choices in mind the Sturmey Archer 8speed or the Sturmey Archer 3speed. The bike has a front hub motor so I don't need the granny gear and I'm not looking for speed I just want reliability and simplicity. I also like the look of the internally geared hubs because it looks more clean then a dérailleur and all that.
Click to expand...
I agree derailleuer are a pain in the ass. I think the 8 speed if you pedal a lot and use the gears and the 3 speed if you don't pedal a lot.
:?
Internal hubs rule.
I don't have one, but all my brother in-law's bikes in Germany have them and they are like half the maintenance of derailler's
 
Well I took the plunge and ordered a Sturmey Archer S30 S-RF3. I got a really good price on it and I can't wait for it. Thanks to Papa for the like to Alfred E Bike store that was just what I needed. Thanks to all who commented. Your input was greatly appreciated, can't thank all of you on the forum enough for your help.
 
northernmike said:
Forget the SA XRD5 series. They're CRAP. I'm stuck with one on a $1400 english roadster, and I cannot get it to work. The shifters are crap, the hub cannot be shifted under load, skips gears all the time, grinds out of first about 10% of the time - forget it. Just forget it. Get yourself a Shimano Nexus and then you can forget it - in a good way. I will be dumping my SA hub in the next week for either an SA 3 speed or a Nexus 8 speed. You do get what you pay for!!
Click to expand...

+1.
I too have seen breakages and other problems with Sturmey Archer XRD3 and XLRD3 used in delivery e-trikes.
No such problems with Shimano Nexus 3spd and so much easier to adjust.
 
UPDATED Just got my Sturmey Archer 3 speed and aint it perdy. It looks so clean and simple. just got to get it laced into the rim now. MMMMmmm this is going to be soo much fun.
 
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I'm interested to know how your SA internal geared hub is going?
 
Sorry I missed this because I have a fair amount of experience with the hub gears.
Best is rohloff - 14 speed, 500% range and bomb proof, but it costs a small fortune (probably $1200 TO $1500
Shimano have a new 11 speed out - the early products seem to have "gears slipping" and adjustment problems, I reckon when shimano iron out the bugs this will be a great product, - good efficiency, even gear steps, 400% range. Costs about $300
SHimano Alfine 8speed, 300% range runs in grease, gear steps 15 to 25% - pretty bomb proof when set up with beautiful easy silent shifting. I have one of these - costs about $200
Shimano nexus 8 speed - same as alfine but slightly less efficient, even better reliability and cheaper $180 ish (I have one of these too). Make sure you get the 'red band' version.
SRAM Sachs also do an 8speed. - it is solid & has more even gear steps but is clunkier than the shimanos
Sturmey archer 8 speed has a dismal reputation for reliability, typical story these work for 20 miles or less then can not be adjusted to work in all gears.
nexus 7 speed - a lot of folk swear by these - I was never that impressed myself - I've seen broken ones - I've never seen a broken shimano 8 speed.
Proper information here
http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/
Best thing (for me) is jumping on the bike with it in top, then , while stationary, just winding the gear down to bottom & setting off up the hill. And it just works, in all gears, always.
Worst thing is the knowledge that a deraillieur would be 3 to 5% more efficient.
The weight distribution of the bike moves back but it's not actually significant. The shimano hubs weigh 1.6kg (4lbs+)
The nuvinci hub is enormous and really heavy (~4kgs). Frankly I'm pretty sure its efficiency is significantly worse than other IGHs, on the up side you can always adjust it to the 'perfect' ratio/cadence
 
Hi Bob,
bobc said:
Shimano have a new 11 speed out - the early products seem to have "gears slipping" and adjustment problems, I reckon when shimano iron out the bugs this will be a great product, - good efficiency, even gear steps, 400% range. Costs about $300
Click to expand...
Where did you hear about the problems and more importantly how do I find out that they have been resolved?

bobc said:
The weight distribution of the bike moves back but it's not actually significant. The shimano hubs weigh 1.6kg (4lbs+)
The nuvinci hub is enormous and really heavy (~4kgs). Frankly I'm pretty sure its efficiency is significantly worse than other IGHs, on the up side you can always adjust it to the 'perfect' ratio/cadence
Click to expand...
Their new model is lighter and smaller:
http://www.fallbrooktech.com/08_bicycle_n360.asp
The next generation NuVinci N360 improves on this innovative formula by further capitalizing on the principles of NuVinci technology. The N360 is dramatically lighter and smaller than its award-winning predecessors.

NuVinci N360 Advancements include:
  • Lighter Weight: Over 30% Lighter
    Smaller Size: 17% Smaller Diameter
    Wider Ratio Range: 360% “Gear-Free” Shifting
    Easier Shift Effort: Even Under Load
    Less Shifter Rotation : Only ¾ Turn from Low to High
    New, Sleek Shifter: More Intuitive; Easier Twist Adjustments
    Hub Interface: Inboard Frame Dropout; Cleaner / More Protected
    Sealed Hub: Maintenance-free; No Adjustments
Click to expand...

The extra 2 pounds probably isn't a show stopper on an Ebike, particularly since the Nuvinci is rated as the strongest IGH hub on the market (Rohloff 100 nm, Nuvinci N170 130 nm, Nuvinci 360 not rated yet but Fallbrook tech support says they expect it to be as strong or stronger than the N170):
http://www.gizmag.com/nuvinci-releases-n360-transmission/16213/
Well, according to the N360’s spec sheet, it weighs 2.45kg (86.4 ounces). By contrast, the combined weight of Shimano SLX front and rear derailleurs, shifters, freehub and cassette comes out to about 1.3kg (46 ounces).

So weight-wise at least, there’s still a ways to go before it usurps the derailleur. If the N360 lives up to its hype, however, those extra thousand grams could be worth it.
Click to expand...
IMG_10621-300x224.jpg


Reviewed here:
http://electricbikereport.com/nuvinci-something-new-for-bicycle-drivetrain-technology/
 
Hi Mitch,
the info was on the "hubstripping" site I linked - there are threads about all the major IGHs.
I'm sure the new nuvinci is a big improvement on their first effort. We use these things for transmissions in the greenpower racers & the nuvinci would be absolutely ideal for the job if only it were less inefficient. This year a nuvinci equipped car with a computer controlled ratio selection (sounds perfect doesn't it..) managed to get 3rd position in one of the F24+ races - I think that's their best performance. It's perhaps unfair to say they would have done better with another transmission, there being so many other factors to take into account. I must say that the computer controlled CVT SHOULD be the ideal transmission for one of these race cars & I do veer towards attributing their lack of success to poor efficiency. The other factor is that their initial web brochures (2 or 3 years ago) actually included a claimed efficeincy of around 97% (from memory) but this figure was very quickly and very completely expunged from their marketing and they now go to extraordinary lengths to avoid answering questions about efficiency.
All of which makes me think it is lower than the acknowledged 85 to 93% of the conventional geared hubs.
I know a lot of folk love them and swear by them, but equally I suspect this is in spite of, not because of their efficiency!
 
Under high power drives, like from multiple-motor systems, there have been reports on ES that seem to indicate less than 66% efficiency, possibly a lot lower when getting into the >1KW input power range. IIRC, member Tapholov uses such a system with about that efficiency, though I don't have a link to the build thread it's discussed in, just a question thread he mentions it in: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=190571#p190571
 
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