Introduction, first post, and, inevitably, questions

[speedy611]

Hi everyone.

Firstly, thanks for having me. I've been lurking for a couple of weeks, and have learned a great deal already.

I'm in Sydney, Australia. Been a hard core cyclist in the past (fixed, recumbent, trikes, etc etc), also a motorcyclist. I'm in tech, and have been interested in the e-bike ideas for while. Price of fuel, simplicity of e-bikes and reduced overall costs are factors. The more reading I do on EV's generally, the more the combustion engine seems antiquated. A brushless motor, with just one moving part seems so much more....sane.

So, here is what I'm trying to work out: will an e-bike work for me in the hard, cold, real world? I commute 24km each way (15miles) by motorcycle, and it takes about 40 minutes (av 36kph / 23mph, typically 6-10 minutes stopped at lights). Terrain is moderately hill, steep in places - (this is the Northern Beaches if anyone knows the area). There are some bike paths/lanes. I can easily recharge at work, and have secure parking.

I do a busy, stressful job. I need to be able to:
1. Just get on a go. Reliabilty is vital
2. Ride year round, in dark, cold, hot, and sometimes soaking wet
3. Not feel like this is a chore. The motorbike just works
4. Not spend a huge amount of extra time commuting

Ideally, I'd like to be able to do the trip at the same speed - I can live with 5-10 minutes extra each way.

Reading the other posts here, and lots of other places on the web, it seems I'd need something like:
1. Crsytalyte 4000 series
2. 48-72 amp controller (ebikes.ca)
3. Ping LIFePO 48v 10ah or 48v 20ah
4. Bike to strap it all to.
5. Throttle
6. Possibly cycle-analyst

Do I need to go to 72v?

My main areas of concern:
1. Reliabilty - lots of talk of MOSFETS blowing, controllers failing, throttles sticking. Is this technology all a bit early adopter to be really reliable?

Should I look at a brushed 4000 Crystalyte, no controller, and a big heap of SLAs? That way, no controller issues, easy recharging (no BMS?), and cheap too.

2. Wet weather - Will motors and controllers tolerate damp and rain? We sometimes get a week or so of consistent wet weather at a time, and I find myself wearing the motorbike rain suit each way for 4 or 5 days straight. Can controllers be waterproofed?

3. Is it generally realistic to think an e-bike will be as convenient as a motorcycle? I'm apprehensive about making the switch and then finding myself miserably trundling along in the dark of winter, enviously watching all the infernal-combustion types going past....

Despite my doubts, the whole idea is really fascinating, and strangely exciting.

Again, thanks for having me,

Mark

 

[Link]

15 miles each way isn't too bad, especially if you can charge at work. Granted, I live in a flat area, but I can do that round trip pretty easily with 48V 20Ah of Ping lithium. 23mph is cake, too. My primary bike tops out at a little under 27mph, and my BMX tops out at about 32mph.

1. Reliabilty - lots of talk of MOSFETS blowing, controllers failing, throttles sticking. Is this technology all a bit early adopter to be really reliable?

We're a pretty DIY bunch. We like to tinker and push the limits of what we have. Naturally, some stuff gets...um...exploded in the process. Those who aren't trying for a 40mph bike and get everything working in the first place usually don't experience any problems for a long time. I think Toorbough got to something like 5,000 miles before his battery got too old to be very useful.

Usually, if it doesn't blow up within a week, it's not going to for a very long time.

2. Wet weather - Will motors and controllers tolerate damp and rain? We sometimes get a week or so of consistent wet weather at a time, and I find myself wearing the motorbike rain suit each way for 4 or 5 days straight. Can controllers be waterproofed?

Electric motors have no real problems with rain. Just make sure the wire exits the axle going down and you'll be fine.

The controllers are a little iffy. They don't seem to take well to moisture by themselves (unless fully potted), but they're fine if put in something reasonably water-resistant or silicone'd/hot glued well.

3. Is it generally realistic to think an e-bike will be as convenient as a motorcycle? I'm apprehensive about making the switch and then finding myself miserably trundling along in the dark of winter, enviously watching all the infernal-combustion types going past....

See #1. If it works to begin with, you shouldn't have many problems other than the occasional tire change. Even that can be taken care of, actually (I put Slime'd inner tubes in my bike and haven't had a flat since).

My bike is out of commission right now (I've been working on a new battery setup and kinda got into a crash a while ago...), and I'm missing it quite a bit. They're great to have. The ability to take it onto sidewalks and trails is very convenient at times. I altered my route to work a while ago to take advantage of this, and now I can avoid loads of traffic (and potential death :wink by riding where there aren't any cars or pedestrians.

BTW, since you live in a hilly area, you may want to consider a geared hub motor or a bottom-bracket (BB) drive. The geared hubs generally aren't as powerful as their direct-drive cousins, but are much torqueier. A BB drive will allow you to have the motor utilize the gears, but you'll have to pedal along with most of them unless you have a front freewheel system.

 

[ty cohen]

cI too am a motorcyclist and am thinking of making the switch. I rode for part of the summer here and didn't quite enjoy stepping into work all hot and sweaty and having that same feeling back home. I have some hills to climb too, but only a relatively shallow one at 5% for about 1.5 km.

due to the amount of traffic lights and cars on the road, I cannot make it to work any faster than 30kph on average. I'd like to meet or beat this speed, and figured I'd need a 48v lifepo4 batt. either 16 or 20amphours. Thinking of either crystalyte or WE motor.

we too have lots of rain here. I can be on the motorbike with all my rain gear for days on end, sometimes weeks.

 

[dallasfoto]

cI too am a motorcyclist and am thinking of making the switch. I rode for part of the summer here and didn't quite enjoy stepping into work all hot and sweaty and having that same feeling back home. I have some hills to climb too, but only a relatively shallow one at 5% for about 1.5 km.

due to the amount of traffic lights and cars on the road, I cannot make it to work any faster than 30kph on average. I'd like to meet or beat this speed, and figured I'd need a 48v lifepo4 batt. either 16 or 20amphours. Thinking of either crystalyte or WE motor.

we too have lots of rain here. I can be on the motorbike with all my rain gear for days on end, sometimes weeks.

I am a newbie at all this and I bought a cheap Ezip. One of my first concerns was rain. From reading around on here, it seems that on this particular bike the throttle/controller is the only real concern. Apparently simple Saran wrap or a plastic bag over the throttle will reduce risk a lot. But I am no techie expert. Some have said the motor can get wet which will cause probs. My second day out I got caught in the rain and took a one gallon bag out of my pocket and rode with it over the controller and it was fine. I just pulled the whole bike into the house into the AC to dry it off fast.

 

[DahonElectric]

Whatever you buy from ebike.ca will probably be as water resistant as you can get for your ebike system. The store is located in Vancouver, BC, Canada and it rains here a lot -- I know I live here, sometimes we get monsoon rain types that will really test the waterproofness of any ebike components. Ask them to recommend you the right controller for the job.

As far as a bike is concerned, the smaller the wheel the better the initial acceleration and torque up the hill, but will be quite lacking on the flat land unless you put in your share of the work. The bigger the wheel, the better the speeds on the flat land, but can be quite lacking on the hills, unless you are using a geared hub setup or put in your share. If you want your motorcycle reliability wise, you will need to pay more for a bike with good components. I know that a lot of people here will recommend a Wal-Mart type bike or something like a cheap dual suspension and I see nothing wrong with that. But be prepared to accept certain unreliability problems as you push the bike into monsoon type weather conditions. The dirt, grit, grim and anything will wear out cheap parts in no time. Any ebike setup will always put a lot of stress on bike components, because bike component makers assume that a rider will be riding the bike, not a 500w to 1000w assisting it! Whereas with your motorbike, the components and drive train are designed for the specific engine design. So, if you are looking for that same reliability as you would on the motorbike, you may be disappointed. Can you take a few setbacks along the way, or are you a perfectionist?

The idea of an ebike is to basically assist the rider without using much of the rider's energy to drive the 2 wheeler. Basically, a motorcycle came from a bicycle that had a 2 stroke engine put in. If you look at the very first and old Hogs (Harley Davidson), you see that it resembles more a bike rather than a motorbike we see today. Basically, an ebike is a recreation of this evolution, albeit in electric form.

I'm also an avid cyclist myself and had only recently turned one of my nice bikes into electric and it had certainly sped up my commute in the rain and sun. I don't sweat that much, but I do have to put in some work.
I see some other ebike riders on the road that don't pedal at all, but are cruising at a relative quick pace -- I assume they have a stronger motor and a higher battery voltage. By the way, ebike.ca has an ebike simulator that you can use to check out speeds and stuff.

As long as you are willing to accept some setbacks along the way, the ebike is a viable solution for your commute or use it in tandem with your motorbike if it ever breaks down.

 

[vanilla ice]

brushed 4000 Crystalyte, no controller, and a big heap of SLAs?

Theres not a good reason not to use a controller with a brushed 4x and lead. Brushed controllers are dirt cheap. IMO not a bad way to go if the budget is low.

 

[dogman dan]

But he'll have to pack about 40 or more pounds of lead to maket it there at that speed with a brushed motor. or go slow with a brushless, unless he goes with the huge chrystalite.

I know it's expensive, but get the 20 ah ping and you won't be sorry. I use aregular WE brushed hub, similar to the Chrystalite DC hubs. It's inexpensive, faster than brushless, and the WE controllers for 36 v run just fine on 48. Spend the money on the battery, and then get the best deal you can on a hub kit, and put it on whatever bike is handy if you are on a budget. 26 inch wheel will be fine, and on brushed, and 48v will go almost 30 mph. That is as fast as you want, till you spend a heck of a lot on the best bike on earth.

I do 14.5 miles to work almost everyday, downhill there, uphill back. 40-50 minuites there, 60 back unless i dawdle. Many stops or I'd be much faster. Your commute is perfect for an e bike. Much further gets a bit time consuming, but 15 miles is doable, and when it's really wet, you will still have your gas bike. You won't save that much money compared to not driving a car, but you will find the e bike suprisingly fun even if you are used to a motorcycle. Noiseless is sorta cool.

 

[speedy611]

Thanks for the interesting replies.

On batteries : I was taking the view that I could put something together quite cheaply to test the concept, and see how the experience works in the real world. There seems no doubt that the LiFEPO approach is the proper way to do things, however, I wonder whether rapid adoption rate is going to drive down prices soon? Given that only DeWalt are using a123's how long before this tech is commonplace? In say, a year, I wonder what the prices will look like

Controller : I was thinking that if this is the 'weak link' in terms of wet weather reliabilty, then why not eliminate it?

This vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xGhqUW9Rsw shows a 4000 series brushed, with just and on/off switch. I'd prefer my rig to be
a) aesthetically more pleasing
b) Rear wheel drive
c) use a throttle not a switch.

The guy in the video claims the controller reduces overall speed / power - is this correct?

Total spend for this build isn't the real issue - effectively I spend $3000 per annum all told for everything for the motorcycle, excluding depreciation. However, as only $23 per week of that is gas, keeping the gas bike and only running it, say 1 day per week 'only' results in a $920 saving per year, perhaps a little more as servicing cost is reduced. Another way to look at this is that I'd be paying about 2K per year to run the gas bike for 50 days (1 day per week, 50 weeks- ie $40 per day). Compare with 3K to run for 250 days ($12 per day)

Consequently, the ideal is to go full electric and sell the motorbike. I could opt for mixed mode transport and build a small e-scooter too, which could get me to the bus in the case of breakdowns, or seriously inclement weather.


Link: thanks for the idea on geared or BB motors - hills are a concern, as there are 2 in particular that may be an issue.

This stuff is confusing, without direct experience - here, the guy is suggesting that his bike just goes uphill pretty well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV4FxzprGfg

He's running 4008, and 4x 36v dewalts.

Dogman: 40-50 minutes, lots of stops - are these coffee etc or lights and junctions? One of my biggest concerns is that comparison of AVERAGE speeds is a bit dangerous: on my gas bike, I'm reach 80-100kph in sections, but equally I'm also stationary for nearly 25% of the trip (10 mins in 40min commute). On an e-bike, I'd be assuming pretty much constant motion, and near top speed all the time.

Anyway, this is all giving me a lot to consider!

Thanks,

Mark

 

[D-Man]

My main areas of concern:
1. Reliabilty - lots of talk of MOSFETS blowing, controllers failing, throttles sticking. Is this technology all a bit early adopter to be really reliable?

People in here are modding stuff like crazy. They can't leave stuff alone. In a quest to keep them from going insane, they have to open it up and take it apart and mod stuff. As a result, stuff ends of blowing up due to errors and high voltage/amps. Don't worry about that. Just leave it alone and if something happens, send it back to seller.

 

[Link]

This vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xGhqUW9Rsw shows a 4000 series brushed, with just and on/off switch. I'd prefer my rig to be
a) aesthetically more pleasing
b) Rear wheel drive
c) use a throttle not a switch.

The guy in the video claims the controller reduces overall speed / power - is this correct?

Technically yes. Removing the controller will allow the motor to draw phenomenal amounts of amperage at low speeds, especially at high voltage. This results in loads of torque. But, doing this a lot _will_ fry your motor over time, if not within the first trip. It's also true that the controller won't be able to give full pack voltage, but this will only equate to maybe a volt or two of difference. You'll see more variation in your speed depending on whether or not there's a 0.5mph wind blowing in your favor.

You can't vary your speed without a controller, either. The throttle is for a mere signal thousands of times less than the power required to move an ebike.

And, of course, if you go with a brushless motor, the whole argument is moot; you can't run a brushless motor without a controller.

Consequently, the ideal is to go full electric and sell the motorbike. I could opt for mixed mode transport and build a small e-scooter too, which could get me to the bus in the case of breakdowns, or seriously inclement weather.

Small scoots are fun, too. I have a pair of cheap electric skateboards myself, though they've been...um..."in the shop" for quite some time now. What with me working on my S-Go and all.

Link: thanks for the idea on geared or BB motors - hills are a concern, as there are 2 in particular that may be an issue.

This stuff is confusing, without direct experience - here, the guy is suggesting that his bike just goes uphill pretty well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV4FxzprGfg

He's running 4008, and 4x 36v dewalts.

On 72V, I bet it does climb hills pretty well, but it's not going to be the billy goat a Puma or something of the like is. A BB is probably the best at getting up hills, but they aren't as stealthy or easy to install.

Though some are doing fine on hills with even the 4XX motors. Somebody on here does a 1,600ft climb over something like 3 miles on a 4XX, albeit with a fair bit of pedaling.

A 5305 likely wouldn't have much issue, either, due to it's sheer size and power. Doc's 5305 on 80A can climb something obscene like a 40% grade.

Dogman: 40-50 minutes, lots of stops - are these coffee etc or lights and junctions? One of my biggest concerns is that comparison of AVERAGE speeds is a bit dangerous: on my gas bike, I'm reach 80-100kph in sections, but equally I'm also stationary for nearly 25% of the trip (10 mins in 40min commute). On an e-bike, I'd be assuming pretty much constant motion, and near top speed all the time.

You probably will be at full speed most the time. I certainly am.

It's actually fairly hard to tell how long it's going to take on an ebike unless you've actually done it before. My trip to work typically takes 10min in a car, and that's going 40 often, and 55 a few times. I figured on about 25 minutes to get there since my bike only topped out at 27mph, but it only took me about 15 minutes to get to work, stops included.

Honestly, the best way to figure it out without an ebike is a ride on a normal bike. Then figure out how fast you want your ebike to go (since, naturally, you're going to want it to go faster than you can :wink, and work out the difference from there.

Otherwise, it's just guesswork.

 

[dogman dan]

Stops are stop signs or lights, let me think... 17 stop signs or lights on my route. Since I saw the sherrif lurking one morning at 5:30 am, I do stop at em all. On flat ground my Wilderness Energy BD36 goes about 24 mph and with a big crank and some fairly vigourous peadling, I can hit about 28 mph for as long as I can sustain it. One morning, the downhill run, I hit all the lights perfect and made it to work in 38 minuites, but some mornings, hitting every light wrong, it can take 50.

With a bd or other brushed motor at 48 volts, 28 mph should be there without any peadling. Since you are considering this as your only transport, is there a bus or something you can fall back on? You will have breakdowns, charger didn't stay connected, power went off, controller fried, whatever. I wouldn't want to go 15 miles peadling an ebike, so maybe you need a regular bike as a back up at least. I like to think of it this way, keeping my car and not driving it drives up the price per mile of insurance and registration, but the not wearing it out and buying another is still money in my pocket that I don't spend next year. If you want to try it cheap, go with a WE brushless motor kit that comes with three batteries, and add one more. That will get you about 25 mph, and with a bit slower speed and some peadling, will get you all the way there. Ebikes will be easy to sell later for awhile so you can upgrade later, after you sell the motorcyle. If you spend less than a hundred on the bike itself, the whole thing will be less than $700 us, and if it doesn't work out, sell it to get most of your money back. But try it out before you sell the motorcycle. For the 15 mile range, brushed motors will most lilkely not go that far if run at top speed. 8 miles is the best I ever got with the sla batteies and brushed at top speed.

 

[DahonElectric]

Mark,

Some people buy electric bikes, including myself, simply to hedge against rising fuel prices since electric is cheaper to operate. People who recently bought the Toyota Prius is in the same position as well as it takes a few years for them to recoup the initial investment of going the greener path. If you want to realize immediate savings, then go out and bike.

You said you're an avid cyclist and had biked with different bikes, but I see a contradiction in your statement here. If you're an avid cyclist, why are you spending most of your time on the motorbike?!? There must be something that appeals to you with your motorbike that a bicycle doesn't. If you start riding your bike today, you will realize immediate savings, assuming of-course your bike is all paid off and amortized. An avid cyclist in my mind is a pretty fit cyclist (at least fitter than an average ebiker), though not at Lance Armstrong calibre, but should be able to conquer any decent hills. Have you tried just biking to work? Also, as the weather gets colder and on the bike, your only heated salvation is to pedal enough to create body heat. With a motorbike, you have a plug for your heated suit, something your ebike battery pack can not spare for the necessary comfort if you're going SLA.

To be honest with you, I agree with some posters that LIFEPO4 or Li-Mn batteries are the best way to go mileage and speed wise. I run on NiMH, but I combine this with my own pedaling force and the mileage and speed I achieve are better than a human powered bike. It will never reach speeds of a car, but my bike paths have a lot of short cuts that I can commute faster than on my van. But trying to achieve as fast as a motor bike or car speeds can also get you in trouble to, because bike paths are designed for low speed traveling vehicles and users expect that. I do get a lot of comment from human only assisted bikers here, while riding my ebike, that they are extremely offended by people who ride ebikes or gas moped without due care and there are a lot of them around because of the high gas prices.
Also, stealing bike components off ebikes is a lot easier than on a motorbike. We have certain areas in Vancouver that thieves prowl and they can remove a handle bar in less than 30secs. Your shifters, Cycle Analyst, throttle control can be taken away within that time period. Batteries get stolen. Think about how much more care you have to put in into your bike to make it security proof if you plan to sell your motorbike and only ride an ebike.

I think if you are looking for something that needs a lot of power, mileage and reliability but from the sounds of it, you are not willing to pay for the initial outlay. I know it hurts to spend more money, because my BIONX system isn't cheap, but that's the price to pay to hedge against higher fuel prices.

 

[ty cohen]

I too have a motorycycle and I would not give that up for an ebike. I would consider giving up commuting by motorcycle, but not recreational riding. In fact I just did an overnight tour with my motorcycle and went 400kms. You can't do that easily with an ebike.

There is a motorcycle riding culture that stays with you when you ride one for recreational purposes. I have very much the same needs as the OP, and need speed and climbability for the bike. I am going to test ride one of them one of these days.

The fastest I got home on my motorcyle was 12.5 minutes, average was 13 to 14 minutes. By human powered biking, my fastest was 16 - 17 minutes, average 20 minutes. I would like to have a commute time in the 14 minute range (or less). No i don't expect to go as fast as my motorcycle, but I can do the bike routes and go uninterupted by stop and go traffic. I do expect to go faster than the 16 - 17 minute fasted human powered time I did. I assume this should be possible, however I still have some doubts, as I passed some ebikers along the route before with just human powering my bicycle.

 

[almostblue]

that is probably very common - mine was a switch from a BMWK1200RS to an eBike.
16 miles, 500 feet terrain

the big surprises were:
standard wheelbase is too short for the speeds of an ebike (a motorcycle's is 40% longer typically)
braking (the extra power and weight require adjustments)
traffic (cars don't expect you to accelerate so quickly, and misjudge your speed, and still try to pass you as well).. pedestrians also are an issue with a higher speed ebike

you may also want to consider a hybrid, i.e. driving your bike half way with a car if you can find free parking, and parking is expensive near your work

considerations are:

time:
25 minutes for motorcycle, 50 for an ebike (even with overvolting to get a 30mph + top speed in the straights, the average speed will still be under 20 because of stops, paths, hills, etc.) - that is almost one extra hour extra per day, not including gear changes, showers, etc. - but consumes less time than the gym.
you get more flats and more failures with an ebike than you might on a motorcycle. Mine is a 2002 BMW, and has had a few failures as the quality is pretty low (exploding fuel lines, failing ABS, etc.), but with the eBike I always seems to lose a connection, a charge, a mount, a chain, or a tire .. at least one event per week, which costs me a lot of time.

convenience:
may need to carry a charger or purchase a second one. Even with a very good workout, I consume 7 amp hours for each direction.

cost:
tolls (0 for both)
batteries: with 500 cycles on a LiIon or LiPol, this can cost $2 per ride) - for comparison a tesla's battery maintenance is about $8,000 per year.
parking ($2 for a motorcycle, $0 for a bike)
fuel ($4 per day vs. pennies)
insurance (if you sell your other 2wheels)

comfort:
I ride the motorcycle all year round, even in the storms, using full rain gear, heated grips, etc. On the ebike it is just plain miserable in the rain.

quality of life:
arriving on an ebike one is refreshed and ready to work.
after that, a bike bike seems loud, stinky, sluggish, annoying

with all of that, the biggest is just time. With an ebike, you end up waiting for fewer red lights. If you have bike paths, even better.
You should measure the amount of straight sections where you can safely go at a higher speed. If it is only 5 miles total, then the increase from 23 MPH (i.e. 24 volt) to 32 MPH might only save a few minutes on your commute.

As for the type. I started with a Bionx and eventually got very frustrated with the somewhat closed nature. You will have plenty of time to fiddle with things, and you want to be able to repair things, rather than have your ride down. The throttle can be a replacement for pedal assist.

in the turnkey world, it might be fun to have a steel bike with 700C 1-3/8" or 1-1/2" slicks, something like a PL350 on the rear, and a PL500HS (high speed) on the front. But I much prefer the Crystalyte, but I think the Bionx has done a great job at creating a very light weight hub motor (8 pounds).

 

[MidniteTweeker]

Rather than technical advice, my suggestion is that you approach this grand experiment with the proper attitude. That is, do the research (like you are now), compile the data, make a choice, and try it out. But most importantly, don't expect it to be perfect. Chances are you can easily sell the "mistake."

There's so much variability in equipment, terrain, conditions, and individuals that it's entirely possible that your first effort might not produce the exact results hoped for. You may have to pedal more, or the route may take longer, or the equipment configuration might not be satisfactory, or the savings may not accumulate as quickly as planned. But take that into consideration and plan for a mid-course correction once you get some miles on your first ride.

Ultimately, e-bikes are no different from cars and motorcycles. There is no one-size-fits-all solution and it might take you a year to discover what works best for you. But for a lot of us, that's part of the fun.

MT

 

[PedalingBiped]

My first glitch with my WE BD36 in the rain was water in the throttle wire where it connects with with the controller harness.

The hub motor turned on to full speed and wouldn't shut off. Had to unplug the motor to regain control.

I now have every splice/connector taped and waterproofed. I put baggies in with my battery pack so they're available during the next rain. (to cover the controller and throttle)

The AH on batteries indicate how far you can travel, but, Lead will only give you half of them while LiPo will give you 80%
So a lead 12ah will give you 6ah in real life while a lipo 10ah will give you 8

With an ebike you need a plan B. I would keep your motorcycle for back up and for when you need to travel further then the the ebike can take you.

 

[Zoot Katz]

Some people buy electric bikes, including myself, simply to hedge against rising fuel prices since electric is cheaper to operate. People who recently bought the Toyota Prius is in the same position as well as it takes a few years for them to recoup the initial investment of going the greener path. If you want to realize immediate savings, then go out and bike.

Augmenting my Xtracycle, with components instead of a "kit" is going to end up costing about the same as your Bionix and still not have the sophisticated pedal sensor, nice battery box or regen capabilities. It'll probably haul more though. The silly thing is that I've spent zero on gasoline since 1996 unless chiping in on a road trip with friends or filling a co-op car. In twelve years that's easily been less than $250. I've biked everywhere I want to go since Aug. 2000. I've not flown in that time either so my carbon footprint suddenly got bigger buying new Ebike components from China.
My bicycle expenses this year alone will equal all that spent on wardrobe, spokes, tires, chain, pannier, lights, locks and saddles over the past eight years (on ~11 bikes). One bicycle as an all-weather everyday commuter will need about $200.00 per year for basic maintenance to assure reliability. An Ebike could cost you over two hundred dollars after one rain storm.
I'm glad I like to pedal and wouldn't have a bike I couldn't. Somehow I always ended up hating my motorcycles (and cars) but I've never hated a bicycle for stranding me. Push it or pick it up and walk. Tow-truck drivers can go suck eggs.

Also, stealing bike components off ebikes is a lot easier than on a motorbike. We have certain areas in Vancouver that thieves prowl and they can remove a handle bar in less than 30secs. Your shifters, Cycle Analyst, throttle control can be taken away within that time period. Batteries get stolen. Think about how much more care you have to put in into your bike to make it security proof if you plan to sell your motorbike and only ride an ebike.

Silicone caulking squeezed into the recess on Robertson, Torx and the Torx security style screws or the hex recess of an Allen bolt will slow down the casual opportunistic scum bag.
One bicycle, motorcycle, car or pair of shoes isn't enough if you're wanting 24/365 reliable transportation.

 

[DahonElectric]

Speaking of which, my first Bionx bike had failed me after riding through a rain storm. Just today after the long weekend, I realized that the freewheel on the bike itself had broke. It's freewheeling as I pedal and the rear doesn't spin and if it does, it catches sometimes which wrecks havoc on the pedal assistance sensor. I had to down/upshift to get it to catch and had to bike at a measly 10km/h and then all of the sudden it works. It's working now but I don't trust it anymore. It's going back to the shop for repairs. This had been an interesting few weeks of experimentation. Oh well, I'm back to my van/regular human powered bike for the moment.

 

[okz00k]

Great advice from MT.

John, a work collegue, has a 300w Cyclone running on 24v driving the chain into a hub gear set and a free-wheel crank. I believe that something like that would suit your terrain better than a hub motor. I only have a few moderate hills and am very pleased with my Crystalyte 408/4012 combination on 48v, and find that I am using the high torque winding for all but the most moderate climbs. With pedal assist in low gear I can get up most hills, but draw a lot of current. John does just as well up the hills on on only 24v. He is able to optimise the torque of the motor with his gears.