is it that much better or efficient to use solder
- Thread starter wasp
- Start date
Link
1 MW
You mean just twist the wires together then tape them? 
I'd worry about mechanical instability. Might come apart eventually. Might also get pretty hot, depending on how many amps are being run and gauge of wire being used.
I'm fairly practiced at soldering, so I can bang out and heat shrink a typical join in about half a minute.
I'd worry about mechanical instability. Might come apart eventually. Might also get pretty hot, depending on how many amps are being run and gauge of wire being used.
I'm fairly practiced at soldering, so I can bang out and heat shrink a typical join in about half a minute.
Link
1 MW
Eh. Depends on how tightly they're bound. Soldering loose ones might lead to a noticeable boost in performance. Tight ones with lots of contact won't conduct that much worse than solder. Either way, there WILL be at least a slight efficiency increase with soldered connections.
A twist join just creates a bunch of contact points. A soldered connection covers both wires completely, using all available surface area. (A good one does, anyway.)
A twist join just creates a bunch of contact points. A soldered connection covers both wires completely, using all available surface area. (A good one does, anyway.)
Ypedal
100 TW
Soldering wires is really not that hard.. worth the time to learn ( get some scrap wire and just practice.. )
1- Work with a clean soldering iron, one reason solder will ball up and not melt into the copper is a dirty ( black soot, and carbon , melted plastic pieces, etc.. )
2- Plenty of heat, 15w irons don't work well for 12 gauge wire, the iron needs to be hot enough to melt the solder on contact, heat up the copper section you want to solder to, and get the job done in 2(good) to 4(max) seconds. If you sit there with the iron on the piece for 10 seconds you have a problem on your hands..
3- Support, using clamps, or vice grips ( don't deform the wire, but just weigh/pin one of the wires down so it don't jiggle around while you try to work..
Inline fuse holders should be soldered, blade connectors should be soldered... Properly crimped Anderson Powerpoles do NOT need to be soldered.. Any connection that you don't ever want to see come apart unless you wipe out, solder it.. prevents water intrusion and rust.. will not wiggle apart over time..
Go on youtube and search " solder " or " Solder techniques " plenty of stuff to learn.
1- Work with a clean soldering iron, one reason solder will ball up and not melt into the copper is a dirty ( black soot, and carbon , melted plastic pieces, etc.. )
2- Plenty of heat, 15w irons don't work well for 12 gauge wire, the iron needs to be hot enough to melt the solder on contact, heat up the copper section you want to solder to, and get the job done in 2(good) to 4(max) seconds. If you sit there with the iron on the piece for 10 seconds you have a problem on your hands..
3- Support, using clamps, or vice grips ( don't deform the wire, but just weigh/pin one of the wires down so it don't jiggle around while you try to work..
Inline fuse holders should be soldered, blade connectors should be soldered... Properly crimped Anderson Powerpoles do NOT need to be soldered.. Any connection that you don't ever want to see come apart unless you wipe out, solder it.. prevents water intrusion and rust.. will not wiggle apart over time..
Go on youtube and search " solder " or " Solder techniques " plenty of stuff to learn.
A
Anonymous
Guest
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Most importantly but not yet mentioned ........flux is your friend....... use it.
When activated by the heat it will cut through oxidation and of equal importance will aid with heat transfer from iron to the items being joined. Always tin your wires before soldering and only use RMA flux on those multi strand insulated wires.
When activated by the heat it will cut through oxidation and of equal importance will aid with heat transfer from iron to the items being joined. Always tin your wires before soldering and only use RMA flux on those multi strand insulated wires.
Link
1 MW
Eh. I use rosin-core solder. Bought a 1lb spool and it looks like it's going to last me years. I can't even find the solid stuff anymore without looking.
64ragtop
100 W
wasp said:
For small diameter wires, making up end-to end to create a longer wire, I was taught to twist them together lengthwise for an inch or so, solder 'em solidly, and tape with good quality electrical tape - then someone invented heat shrinkable tubing! Kinda lets ya know how long I've been wire mechanicin', huh?
For larger diameter wires, I used to use the same technique. But I've recently started using the metal part of properly sized butt connectors. Insert the wires into the connectors, crimp lightly to hold 'em in position, and fill up the connector with solder (and use extra flux if necessary!).
I like this, 'cause it makes a neater looking joint and the shrink tubing fits better.
Just twisting and taping will work, but not well or for long! Especially in damp situations! Solder fills in the gaps between the wire strands and prevents moisture entry. Shrink tubing keeps moisture from getting to the wire where the insulation is stripped. Shrink tubing with glue inside offers a better seal (at least theoretically) and I like it a lot!
The DOWNside of soldering is that "twist and tape" is quicker - - unless ya count the time spent troubleshooting, finding the crappy connections and redoing them properly.
Oh, and wire nuts are for SOLID wire only! They cut and break the strands in stranded wire and do not provide protection from moisture.
ATB
BC
Dee Jay
100 kW
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When I was in my teens, I grabbed a soldering pen on the hot end and burned my all my fingers and palm! ~ Talk about Excruciating Pain ~ Amazingly, I still have my finger prints and no scar at all.
I've rarely soldered before getting into the ebike hobby last year. It's only recently that I realized that I wasn't doing it properly all along and with the wrong iron wattage on some work. I'm sure there are many techniques I still need to learn. But I've learned safer handling habits, to be more efficient, and learned to look for other soldering tools that make the work easier.
As for APP: Being the cheap bastard that I am, I don't crimp anderson connector contacts just so I can unsolder them and reuse them if I ever need to reconfigure the wiring in the future, which I've been doing frequently because I was always finding better ways to hide wires. If you crimp them the wrong way they are such a pain fitting into the housing. I learned my lesson after stabbing a jeweler's screwdriver into my thumb a few times whilst trying to force badly crimped contacts! After the second time, I had to think really hard of a better technique. Never crimp, solder! Duh. Besides, why risk having power wires accidentally pulling out??
Funny this topic came up. My soldering pen died on me last week. All I saw was a flash inside the vent holes, that's it, dead. Well being the handyman that I like to think I am, I took it apart and found that the heating element wire burnt out.
I was so sure that I'd find the heating element at my hardware store sold separately as a replacement. You would think you can find nearly anything you need in Japan, the land of gadgets, with endless varieties of high quality products to choose from? After all, it is a...you know... a D I Y shop, right?
Wrong.
I had to buy a whole new pen. Now I'm stuck with parts I have no use for. The power cord, maybe, but the rest are useless. Disposable Culture SUCKS.
So for just a few $ more I upgraded to a pen with a reconfigurable plastic handle. I really like the gun position.
J
I've rarely soldered before getting into the ebike hobby last year. It's only recently that I realized that I wasn't doing it properly all along and with the wrong iron wattage on some work. I'm sure there are many techniques I still need to learn. But I've learned safer handling habits, to be more efficient, and learned to look for other soldering tools that make the work easier.
As for APP: Being the cheap bastard that I am, I don't crimp anderson connector contacts just so I can unsolder them and reuse them if I ever need to reconfigure the wiring in the future, which I've been doing frequently because I was always finding better ways to hide wires. If you crimp them the wrong way they are such a pain fitting into the housing. I learned my lesson after stabbing a jeweler's screwdriver into my thumb a few times whilst trying to force badly crimped contacts! After the second time, I had to think really hard of a better technique. Never crimp, solder! Duh. Besides, why risk having power wires accidentally pulling out??
Funny this topic came up. My soldering pen died on me last week. All I saw was a flash inside the vent holes, that's it, dead. Well being the handyman that I like to think I am, I took it apart and found that the heating element wire burnt out.
I was so sure that I'd find the heating element at my hardware store sold separately as a replacement. You would think you can find nearly anything you need in Japan, the land of gadgets, with endless varieties of high quality products to choose from? After all, it is a...you know... a D I Y shop, right?
Wrong.
I had to buy a whole new pen. Now I'm stuck with parts I have no use for. The power cord, maybe, but the rest are useless. Disposable Culture SUCKS.
So for just a few $ more I upgraded to a pen with a reconfigurable plastic handle. I really like the gun position.J
Link
1 MW
Same here on soldering the PowerPoles. I just stuff the wire in them, use a mini-torch to get the thing hot, and then fill it with solder. Sometimes I run water over it right after if I know I used too much heat (solder feels like it's crunching if I'm working fast like I need to). I don't think I could separate them if I tried.
A
Anonymous
Guest
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RLT
10 kW
I imagine that someone will probably say otherwise, but crimping is actually more electrically efficient than soldering.
Tin and lead (or tin and bismuth, tin & cadmium etc.) are less conductive than a good copper to copper crimp.
Is the difference significant enough to worry about? Marginal, I think for an average ebike builder, but for those of us who are trying to wring out every microwatt possible, and maximize reliability it is probably worth it, if only on a level that is not measurable without some expensive equipment.
Personally, for my heavy current connections, I crimp, then solder, trying to keep the solder from flowing all the way into the crimped portion. I think that gives the highest mechanical reliability while preserving the highest electrical efficiency. (also helps prevent corrosion) Overkill? Possibly. But I KNOW that that connection is not going to fail.
On thicker wires,10 ga and up, if you don't have a regular crimp butt connector, you can use a short piece of flexible copper tube, like from an evaporative cooler water supply.
Considering the number of changes I have made in my bike build, I gotta admit that I have wasted a few tens of dollars of connectors by crimping then soldering, then five minutes or five days later having to rewire something ......I buy my 45A and lower Anderson contacts by the hundred; (from Mouser, you can get them cheap enough to be disposable) , but I know that I have the best joint possible.
if you don't want to bother with a crimp connector to join two wires, use a 'Western Union" splice:
It can be either soldered or not.
Then cover with heat shrink (I love that glue lined stuff that nutsandvolts mentioned above, but it is hard to find at a cheap price). If I don't have any heat shrink the right size, I use that self-vulcanizing rubber tape. Much better than regular electrical tape.
A super duper splice, that needs no solder for maximum electrical efficiency AND mechanical strength is one I used to use when laying lines for field telephones: It is like the western union splice, except you tie a square knot in the middle first, then wrap the ends. (sorry I can't find a picture, and don't feel like drawing one. I wouldn't want to have to do it on anything bigger than 12 ga wire, and 14ga is the maximum that is easy to do on stranded, and 20 ga is the maximum for solid, but if you have enough wire to spare and don't mind the hassle, it is the best and strongest way to splice two wires together without soldering.
Tin and lead (or tin and bismuth, tin & cadmium etc.) are less conductive than a good copper to copper crimp.
Is the difference significant enough to worry about? Marginal, I think for an average ebike builder, but for those of us who are trying to wring out every microwatt possible, and maximize reliability it is probably worth it, if only on a level that is not measurable without some expensive equipment.
Personally, for my heavy current connections, I crimp, then solder, trying to keep the solder from flowing all the way into the crimped portion. I think that gives the highest mechanical reliability while preserving the highest electrical efficiency. (also helps prevent corrosion) Overkill? Possibly. But I KNOW that that connection is not going to fail.
On thicker wires,10 ga and up, if you don't have a regular crimp butt connector, you can use a short piece of flexible copper tube, like from an evaporative cooler water supply.
Considering the number of changes I have made in my bike build, I gotta admit that I have wasted a few tens of dollars of connectors by crimping then soldering, then five minutes or five days later having to rewire something ......I buy my 45A and lower Anderson contacts by the hundred; (from Mouser, you can get them cheap enough to be disposable) , but I know that I have the best joint possible.
if you don't want to bother with a crimp connector to join two wires, use a 'Western Union" splice:
It can be either soldered or not.
Then cover with heat shrink (I love that glue lined stuff that nutsandvolts mentioned above, but it is hard to find at a cheap price). If I don't have any heat shrink the right size, I use that self-vulcanizing rubber tape. Much better than regular electrical tape.
A super duper splice, that needs no solder for maximum electrical efficiency AND mechanical strength is one I used to use when laying lines for field telephones: It is like the western union splice, except you tie a square knot in the middle first, then wrap the ends. (sorry I can't find a picture, and don't feel like drawing one. I wouldn't want to have to do it on anything bigger than 12 ga wire, and 14ga is the maximum that is easy to do on stranded, and 20 ga is the maximum for solid, but if you have enough wire to spare and don't mind the hassle, it is the best and strongest way to splice two wires together without soldering.
snowcrow
100 W
Soldering a wire splice not only provides better conductivity, but also protects against oxidation in the connection, electrical tape alone does not provide this protection for long. Silver Conductive Epoxy http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/8331.html?PHPSESSID=0b4fe43614eac8b072530583013cbd32 Blessings, Snow Crow
A
Anonymous
Guest
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Ypedal
100 TW
I have crimped 100's of anderson powerpoles , 30 and 45 amp tips, and have never had one come undone.. not one.. !!! :wink:
A
Anonymous
Guest
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John in CR
100 TW
snowcrow said:
Does this silver epoxy stuff work well? Is it expensive? (I hate when they won't show a price). I'm terrible at soldering, so if there's an equally good epoxy alternative, I'm all ears. Epoxy and duct tape are 2 of my favorite things to use.
John
wrobinson0413
1 kW
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John in CR
100 TW
wrobinson,
Looking at your link, the simple McIntire joint seems better and easier than the Western Union joint. Even Western Union switched to it.
John
Looking at your link, the simple McIntire joint seems better and easier than the Western Union joint. Even Western Union switched to it.
John
wrobinson0413
1 kW
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wrobinson0413
1 kW
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snowcrow
100 W
Sorry, they don't sell direct, but if you the "Buy" button it will send you to the dealer search page. I bought mine some time ago, don't remember how muchJohn in CR said:
>$10 maybe? Worth the money!! I used it to glue wires to a $250 CCD chip when building my telescope camera. I did also use it for a wire splice and its still doing fine 8) Blessings, Snow CrowSimilar threads
