Jason's Build
- Thread starter Jason
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The build continues to move on... Tuesday I cut the threaded side of a rear bike hub off for the freewheel and then welded .5in to 1in shaft collars inside of the hub. I attached that to my planetary gear box and then screwed my freewheel on to that. I then made the chain to length and began to hook the electronics up. I powered it up and got a small amount of testing with the wheels off the ground applying some resistance to the wheel through the disc brake to make sure the trans and mounting would handle the motor torque.
Everything seems to pass so far so tonight I began to mount up a couple battery bags. As you can see it's just some 1/8th in aluminum supporting a couple of six pack coolers on a schwinn seat post mounting rack. I was quite surprised the coolers were such a perfect fit for my batteries. Anyhow that's where I'm at I was hoping to go for a ride tonight but ran out of #8 bolts before I had finished mounting the second battery bag.
Everything seems to pass so far so tonight I began to mount up a couple battery bags. As you can see it's just some 1/8th in aluminum supporting a couple of six pack coolers on a schwinn seat post mounting rack. I was quite surprised the coolers were such a perfect fit for my batteries. Anyhow that's where I'm at I was hoping to go for a ride tonight but ran out of #8 bolts before I had finished mounting the second battery bag.
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I finally got the battery mounts finished up this weekend and did some wiring. On Saturday I made my first trip on the bike and was rather happy with the results. It had good pickup and was still pulling past 30mph. The one thing I have to be careful of though is the current pull of the motor. It's plenty happy to shoot up over it's rating and heat up... and so here comes the next phase of the project. This is also part of my advanced robotics and automation class which even puts on more pressure cause it is due within 2 weeks. I now have to build a circuit and write a program which will work as a current based cruise control while also working as a current limiter.
dontsendbubbamail
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I used an Arduino, the prototype shield, a hall effect current sensor, and a PID routine to do current limiting and current cruise control. The first graph is before I got the tuning right. The second is after it was tuned better. I think it will be smoother when I improve the resolution of the current sensor and turn off soft start on the esc. DigiKey has the current sensors. I tuned mine on a bike trainer.
Bubba
Bubba
Very cool, I may have to pick your brain a little as I dive a little deeper into it. How was the arduino? I currently only have experience in Pbasic, and am not sure I'd be able to take on a new langauge and have it all ready for presentation in 2 weeks.
dontsendbubbamail
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I like the arduino. Download the IDE, plug in a usb cable and you are ready to program. There are several examples of PID code on the web. It is technically C code, but you will only need to use the very basic functions that any language has. No pointers unless you are just dieing to try using them.
Bubba
P.S. The pid code is very simple and can easily be translated to another language. You may be better off to stick with what you have experience with.
Bubba
P.S. The pid code is very simple and can easily be translated to another language. You may be better off to stick with what you have experience with.
More more more!!! What is the top speed? How noisy is the gearbox? How noisy is the overall system?
How efficient is the gearbox? I love the motor mount, what was the flange used for on the original bike?
Have you been able to condition your TS battery pack yet? What are your thoughts on it?
Is your Arduino program going to be open source? Did you program in standard EBike throttle controller like Flechter is making?
Sounds like the cruise control will be very nice.
Hope you finish in time!
Joe
How efficient is the gearbox? I love the motor mount, what was the flange used for on the original bike?
Have you been able to condition your TS battery pack yet? What are your thoughts on it?
Is your Arduino program going to be open source? Did you program in standard EBike throttle controller like Flechter is making?
Sounds like the cruise control will be very nice.
Hope you finish in time!
Joe
On my first test run I went around the block quite a few times just going slow at first. Speed in first gear tops out around 13-14mph as I shifted up speed continued to gain. I made it up to 30mph and then decided to slow down and check the motor... I felt the motor and it was pretty hot so I took it easy on the way home cruising in 1st gear to run some air through it.
This Hyperion motor was much nicer than my Turnigy it was balanced perfectly and quiet; however in my opinion any outrunner should have some form of fan on it. They are designed to run with constant airflow over them so I will be building a small prop to be affixed to the endbell. The planetary did get noisy under load. I'm going to try an old car audio trick this weekend and see if wrapping it in dynamat (sound deadener will quiet it down. Beyond the tranny noise that's all that was apparent the chains weren't noticeable since the cogs really aren't spinning all that fast.
As far as efficiency it appeared quite good. It was pulling around 20amps at 20mph on level surface with no wind. This is with a 80lb bike and 290lb rider. After this weekend the throttle will be controlled by the arduino as of now it's controlled by a Turnigy wattmeter/servodriver. The potentiometer to pulseout program is very easy to do on almost any microcontroller, but the PID that bubba was talking about can get pretty darn tricky. I will be getting some help from a software engineer friend hopefully Monday afternoon to help me transition from the Pbasic language to C. I'm not sure if I'm going to make the program opensource yet or keep it to myself, it will most likely be a variant of someone elses code anyway. I can ensure you that what ever I find opensource I will share.
The TS packs seem great so far... I haven't ran it anywhere near dead yet and it will provide all the current my controller will draw from it. I've seen spikes into the 80 amp area. I will post a video soon once all the kinks are worked out. I will add one thing Joe if you're interested in going down the RC road... None of this stuff is designed to work together properly on a bike you have to be very careful because there is nothing to protect the motor from the amp capacity of your controller and you must protect everything with proper fusing or circuit breakers because things can become dangerous quite quickly. I had an error yesterday with my throttle control and it sent the bike screaming across my kitchen into my living room where it ran into my coffee table and basically exploded it. Such an awesome site to behold, but it could have been quite ugly if my dog or girlfriend would have been in the way.
This Hyperion motor was much nicer than my Turnigy it was balanced perfectly and quiet; however in my opinion any outrunner should have some form of fan on it. They are designed to run with constant airflow over them so I will be building a small prop to be affixed to the endbell. The planetary did get noisy under load. I'm going to try an old car audio trick this weekend and see if wrapping it in dynamat (sound deadener will quiet it down. Beyond the tranny noise that's all that was apparent the chains weren't noticeable since the cogs really aren't spinning all that fast.
As far as efficiency it appeared quite good. It was pulling around 20amps at 20mph on level surface with no wind. This is with a 80lb bike and 290lb rider. After this weekend the throttle will be controlled by the arduino as of now it's controlled by a Turnigy wattmeter/servodriver. The potentiometer to pulseout program is very easy to do on almost any microcontroller, but the PID that bubba was talking about can get pretty darn tricky. I will be getting some help from a software engineer friend hopefully Monday afternoon to help me transition from the Pbasic language to C. I'm not sure if I'm going to make the program opensource yet or keep it to myself, it will most likely be a variant of someone elses code anyway. I can ensure you that what ever I find opensource I will share.
The TS packs seem great so far... I haven't ran it anywhere near dead yet and it will provide all the current my controller will draw from it. I've seen spikes into the 80 amp area. I will post a video soon once all the kinks are worked out. I will add one thing Joe if you're interested in going down the RC road... None of this stuff is designed to work together properly on a bike you have to be very careful because there is nothing to protect the motor from the amp capacity of your controller and you must protect everything with proper fusing or circuit breakers because things can become dangerous quite quickly. I had an error yesterday with my throttle control and it sent the bike screaming across my kitchen into my living room where it ran into my coffee table and basically exploded it. Such an awesome site to behold, but it could have been quite ugly if my dog or girlfriend would have been in the way.
dontsendbubbamail
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You create the pulses with hardware. D10 is the output. Set OCR1B between 2000 and 4000 to create a continuous 1 to 2 mS pulse train. I can't remember where I found this code, but it works. It goes in the setup function. Take the comments with a grain of salt.
#include <avr/io.h> You might need this include. It would be the very first statement and not within a function.
//start the PWM Subsystem
DDRB = 0b11111111; // ??Set pins 8-13 as outputs
TCCR1A=0b10100010; // ?? Set timer to CTC
TCCR1B=0b00011010; // ??Fast PWM, top in ICR1, /8 prescale (.5 uSec)
ICR1=39999; // Set the frequency. 40,000 clocks @ .5 uS = 20mS = 50Hz
OCR1B=2000; // Set throttle to low value. 2000 clocks @ .5 uS = 1mS
Just as a safety thing, I have a switch on the handle bars that is hard wired to the Arduino reset. It takes the reset pin to ground and holds it there. This assures that if my code runs away, I don't go with it.
Bubba
#include <avr/io.h> You might need this include. It would be the very first statement and not within a function.
//start the PWM Subsystem
DDRB = 0b11111111; // ??Set pins 8-13 as outputs
TCCR1A=0b10100010; // ?? Set timer to CTC
TCCR1B=0b00011010; // ??Fast PWM, top in ICR1, /8 prescale (.5 uSec)
ICR1=39999; // Set the frequency. 40,000 clocks @ .5 uS = 20mS = 50Hz
OCR1B=2000; // Set throttle to low value. 2000 clocks @ .5 uS = 1mS
Just as a safety thing, I have a switch on the handle bars that is hard wired to the Arduino reset. It takes the reset pin to ground and holds it there. This assures that if my code runs away, I don't go with it.
Bubba
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi Jason,
When John Holmes was working on producing a planetary gearbox he mentioned that he was going to use a special lubricant designed to reduce gear noise. I remember seeing a couple of products designed for that purpose on the web but I'm not plugging the right search terms into google.
Will heat be an issue if you wrap it in dynamat?
When John Holmes was working on producing a planetary gearbox he mentioned that he was going to use a special lubricant designed to reduce gear noise. I remember seeing a couple of products designed for that purpose on the web but I'm not plugging the right search terms into google.
Will heat be an issue if you wrap it in dynamat?
I cant be positive yet that heat will or wont be an issue on the planetary if I put dynamat on it. I do know that the planetary did not get warm while I was running it so I would assume it's not really producing enough heat to cause an issue, but time would only tell if it would heat up over a longer period of time or not. I'm also thinking of trying some different gearbox lubes to see if it will quiet down that way.
I just got back from a 30 minute ride. It's cooler out tonight and the motor stayed within a touchable temperature. We had a lot of rain today and the field next to me was nice and muddy so I had to give it a try. I kicked the bike into first and hit it, the back end was fish tailing as it pushed me through some pretty deep mud. It was some mad fun till I tried it again on my way back to the house. About mid way through my rear tire was digging pretty deep and all of the sudden the chain came off of the sprocket. So yeah my shoes got wet and muddy tonight but nonetheless after I walked it through the mud puddle I was able to get the chain back on and finished the trip home. I also felt the planetary gear box after the ride it was only warm right next to the motor as it should be.
Oh damn ouch on the coffee table explosion... Hope nothing is broken.
That is good information thank you for sharing. I found a grease called krytox by dupont. It could lower the noise a tiny bit in the gearbox. It is a pain to use since you have to eliminate all other grease though. It would be nice if they used helical gears in that gearbox it could quiet them down quite a bit. But I don't know... did they use helical gears? DOh can you even use helical gears in a planetary gearbox? [edit doh]
I am certain that once you get the motor heating solved be it another motor or just good airflow your going to have an awesome bike. I love the design. I will be checking in often.
I am planning on using some RC motors. I just purchased enough stuff to get started.
I am going to purchase a Flechter throttle control but I can see the day when you have your Arduirno connected outputting data and the wattsup also outputting data to an I phone that is collecting all the statistics. With both data sources and the gps of the iphone I think there is some killer software on the way... not that I will make it
Wow that sounds fun! I was writing this when you posted.
That is good information thank you for sharing. I found a grease called krytox by dupont. It could lower the noise a tiny bit in the gearbox. It is a pain to use since you have to eliminate all other grease though. It would be nice if they used helical gears in that gearbox it could quiet them down quite a bit. But I don't know... did they use helical gears? DOh can you even use helical gears in a planetary gearbox? [edit doh]
I am certain that once you get the motor heating solved be it another motor or just good airflow your going to have an awesome bike. I love the design. I will be checking in often.
I am planning on using some RC motors. I just purchased enough stuff to get started.
I am going to purchase a Flechter throttle control but I can see the day when you have your Arduirno connected outputting data and the wattsup also outputting data to an I phone that is collecting all the statistics. With both data sources and the gps of the iphone I think there is some killer software on the way... not that I will make it
Wow that sounds fun! I was writing this when you posted.
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