Just bought a used X-Treme XB-300Li

[arthurtuxedo]

Hello,

I just picked up my first Ebike, a ~4-year old X-Treme XB-300Li (since renamed to Trail Maker) for $280, which I considered a steal for any working Ebike. I have been riding a Brompton M6L every day for 13.5 miles, and the climbs were really starting to strain my knees, hips, and lower back. Yesterday was the first day using the Ebike, and the motor is a huge help! This one has a low-torque 300W motor fed by a 24V battery, which people will tell you is not enough for even moderate hills. If you expect to twist the throttle and get up the hill without pedaling, that's true, but I'm used to getting up 20% grade hills on an un-assisted Brompton so even 300W is a godsend. There are 2 hills on my route where I still need to shift into first and stand on the pedals, but the motor is still doing at least half the work and taking a lot of stress off my knees. I was afraid that it would burn itself out, but the hills are only a block long before leveling out, so that doesn't seem to be an issue so far.

I do have a couple of concerns, though, and wanted to get some info from the knowledgeable folks here at ES:

Judging from what I've read, the electric components are not weather resistant and will fail if ridden in the rain. That's a problem since I live in San Francisco, which has very unpredictable weather and I use my bike for work so going home halfway through a shift is not an option. How would I go about weatherizing this bike?

Like any first-time Ebike buyer, I crave MOAR POWER! It seems like the easiest way to accomplish this is to swap out the 24V battery and controller for, say, 52V. However, I cannot find any information on the battery pack itself and the dimensions, and whether off-the-shelf packs from a place like Lunacycle would fit into the battery box behind the seat, which is a very cool placement that I would like to keep using. Has anyone swapped a new battery on one of these things, and which one did you pick?

Thank you!

 

[motomech]

Although there are purposely constructed conversion kits that are touted as water-resistant, I rather doubt that any ebike is truely water-proof in a down-pour.
Your best bet is to carry a large rain poncho and drape it over as much of the bike as possible, including the handle bars. The motor it's self is somewhat water tolerant(it will drain), but if the water is up the the axle, it's probably time to park it.

Mod'ing factory systems often turns into a "Pandora's Box", leading to unforseen problems, but it has been done;
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13910&hilit=X+Treme+XB+300Li
Another way for you to "up the ante". is to add a complete additional system to the frt. Something like the Q100H mini-motor and a 36Vrack battery from BMS Battery. There are currently a couple of 2WD threads going on here. To see the details of how to install a frt. whl. kit, search my posts using search words; 2WD, dual motor, etc. and/or, click the first link below.

 

[arthurtuxedo]

Thanks for the link!

It sounds like I shouldn't worry about a drizzle, just a legit downpour? Yesterday I took the Brompton because there was a 10% chance of rain and I didn't want to short out my new Ebike in the first week. Sounds like I was being overly paranoid.

From reading the thread you linked, it sounds like a 36V controller might give some extra oomph with the existing batteries and motor? I thought 24V batteries and 36V controllers was a no-no, but it seems like a couple of people have done it with their XB-310's

 

[MadRhino]

Rain is not much of a problem if you care to waterproof connectors and throttle regularly. I ride all year long in a country where we have rain, snow and salted slush to face half of the year. Yet, none of the components are enclosed on my bikes.

Upgrading power by using a higher voltage is pretty straightforward, especially when you are willing to replace the controller to match the battery. The only thing you might have trouble with, is battery level monitor if the bike has one. You can replace it, of just bypass.

 

[dogman dan]

From what I had heard, most of the problems with those scoots were either generally cheap stuff, like switches would break. Or more likely, the type of plugs in the wiring harness would loosen. A bit of a pain to work through them all, but easy to fix when you find a problem. What tends to happen, is the tiny spring on the contact does not engage the plug housing, so the contact can back out losing contact.

after you go through that, fixing any loose contacts you find, then goop up the plugs, or tape up, to increase the waterproofing.

Throttle can get wet easy, so put a bag on the bars when you must park in rain. Riding in rain, you can cover the crack where the throttle rotates with your palm.

 

[arthurtuxedo]

Thanks for the advice!

The more I read, the more I realize that trying to upgrade this thing is a bad idea, as I would not be able to replace one component without overloading the others and if I swapped in an entirely new powertrain it would be held back by the lower quality bike components and would not save me any money over a fresh build.

I think I'll just do some waterproofing, use the current bike for a while, and then later sell it and build up a 35 MPH bike from a touring or cross frame.

 

[arthurtuxedo]

How difficult would it be to add another 24v battery and series them? I would then replace the controller with a 48v unit for a relatively cheap doubling of power, and could later replace the motor if it fries itself.

 

[docw009]

Going with a bigger controller buys you very little, in my experience, because your controller is probably not limiting performance. You don't have enough volts.

The problem is where to put the 2nd battery, and the cost is such that for 50% more, I'm sure you could go 36volts or 48Volts, although that now adds overhead for a charger. The 300Li means lithium. Did you get a lithium battery or is it 24 volt lead acid? Also, if it is a 4 year old battery, it can't have much of its original capacity. I think one new 36V or 48V battery has got to be better.

You could hang a 52V 6AH (300 watt hour) mini battery off a seat bag, use a 48V controller, and you might get the same range you have now. Go easy on the throttle. I do that with a 250WBafang. It will cost you $500 though. Maybe you can find a second used bike for less.

You can throw stones at the components on your XB300LI, but they're the same parts you see on many inexpensive bikes, whether electric or pedal. In any case, if you don't worry about what you spent in total and don't buy that donut/coffee 3X a week, you can upgrade to a decent shifters and derailleurs over time without missing that pocket money. (We ignore what happens in 40 years if you had invested that donut money instead of spending it on fun.) I'll save you money on the disk brake upgrade with this opinion. Unless you go hydraulic, disks brakes may disappoint.

 

[arthurtuxedo]

Maybe I mixed up my terminology, but I was hoping to use the second battery to double the voltage and keep the Ah the same.

 

[LewTwo]

Maybe I mixed up my terminology, but I was hoping to use the second battery to double the voltage and keep the Ah the same.

Yes and no ... The second battery in series with the first will double the voltage however you will have to replace the controller as well. The controller is what determines how much current you are sending to the motor. The Amp-Hours applies to the capacity of the battery(s) and it is is unlikely that a four year old battery is going to have the the same capacity it had when new. Connecting two batteries in series is simple if they are made up of simple wired cells. However most battery packs on commercial e-bikes have an internal BMS (battery management system) that is not going to be happy seeing twice the voltage trying to sneak through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBZi6ucwwlk

Your worst case scenario is going up hills with twice the voltage and more current than the motor is rated to handle. I am guessing you would not have to wait very long to replace the burned out motor. If you want to experiment then you might want to try something simple (and relatively cheap) like a 36 volt square wave controller and some small LiPo batteries in a plastic toolbox strapped to the rear rack. You could get an idea how the increased voltage/current would perform.

 

[999zip999]

Considering you're going to have to replace most everything it might be best to start from the ground up. One good 52 volt battery and a $200 eBay bike kit. A used $100 craigslist bike. Still must be carefull on long hills. If the motor Lugz it just turns into melting heat inside the motor.

 

[arthurtuxedo]

OK, sounds like more trouble than it's worth. I'll probably just build up a new bike and sell this one.

 

[miro13car]

Rain is not much of a problem if you care to waterproof connectors /quote]

either is connector weather - proof by design or is not.
Powerpack connectors by DELPHI are wheater-proof by design.
messing up connectors with silicone - how are you going to disconnect and connect back?

 

[docw009]

You might ask Xtreme or whoever imports the bike if it can take 36 volts, and just maybe, somebody there will give you the right answer. I doubt it. A simple 36 v controller with no LCD is not much money anyway. Less than $20 shipped, and probably compatible with your existing brakes, throttle, and motor. Whatever you use to turn on the bike and display voltage needs some connecting, but it's all the same wiring in principle.

For the hills in a City like San Francisco, you do need a decent battery. Shawn McCarty at Batteryblocs.com made me a 36V 10.2AH (10S-3P) earlier this year. Uses good cells.

Figure out how to upgrade this bike, and you're ahead of the game when you want another bike, or if this one breaks.

I'm just saying two batteries in series is a bad idea if one of them is ready to go, and at 4 years, it's ready. You'll be back to one under powered 24Volt battery.

 

[LewTwo]

I totally agree with Doc.
On the subject of waterproofing: Try 'Liquid Tape'. It is vinyl and fairly easy to peel off if the need comes up.
"Vaseline Petroleum Jelly" is another proven option but it gets messy.

 

[arthurtuxedo]

Cool thanks for the tips!

 

[arthurtuxedo]

In the ~6 weeks that I've owned this thing, I have been forced to realize that it is a BSO. A broken spoke appeared on the rear wheel, and by the time I had it down to the bike shop, two more had gone. Because of the non-standard lengths and gauges, I ended up taking it to 3 different shops before one could resize some spokes. The guy warned me that they wouldn't be the same gauge and was a temporary fix at best, but I needed to get back on the road and stop renting scooters every day so I had him go ahead and do it. Now I don't trust the bike anymore, which of course takes a lot of the fun out of riding.

Lacking the budget to go ahead with the Xootr Swift project I was planning, I looked for a higher-end used Ebike and spotted a Hebb Electroglide 500 on Craigslist. It was in pretty rough shape, but the guy only wanted $450 for it (originally a $2,600 bike) so I bought it anyway. The motor worked like a champ (which also means the battery can take a charge) and the rest was at least rideable, so I figured that even if I have to replace almost every mechanical component, I will have gained the knowledge I wanted from a build project and will end up paying roughly the going price for one of these things. I'll be back for advice after reconditioning the mechanical parts since I will definitely want to add a PAS at some point.

 

[LewTwo]

FYI: https://electricbikereview.com/hebb/electroglide-500/

One thing nice about having the battery behind the seat post is that you get a slightly longer tail for a bit better ride.