Just received my new wheel, any suggestions?

[wesnewell]

I'm not sure how anyone could put a bicycle and a Harley Davidson motorcycle side-by-side and think "clearly both these machines require identical spokes".

And I'm not sure how anyone could put a bicycle side by side with a powerful ebike and think "clearly both these machines require identical spokes".
Thanks for making my point. That's why the hub motor manufacturers drill their hubs for larger spokes. And because electricity has been generated for years with coal we should continue to do it that way and choke the world instead of mandating every house built be self sustaining electrically. Dumb asses rule the world. That appears to carry over to other fields too.

 

[Ykick]

No noob in the world is going to build a wheel the equal of what I can build on any given day at the bike shop, and the 40 bucks I charge is money well spent. Self-education is valuable in its own right, but if you want the best wheel you must go to an experienced builder.

I encourage anyone who wants to learn to build wheels to do so. The best way to start is to build a front wheel on a normal symmetrical non-disc hub. Don't expect the wheel to fulfill its potential in the first try, so use conservative component choices that will yield a satisfactory wheel anyway. Alex DM24 rims and straight 14ga spokes from Danscomp are great economical parts that are easy to build with.

Hub motors are not easy to build into good wheels. My advice for those wishing to try their hands at hub motor wheel building is to lace the spokes all outside the motor flanges, use spoke washers as necessary to cope with too-large hub holes, and don't let it be the very first wheel you build.

Read Jobst Brandt's book The Bicycle Wheel if you want to better understand what you're doing. Sheldon Brown wrote a useful brief tutorial that is well worth the time to study.

I always appreciate your good info. I’m in the DIY camp and while I’m not a pro by any stretch of the imagination my wheels are now pretty darn true and durable using decent stretchy spokes and good rims.

Early attempts were just ok but with practice it’s been a god send skill to have in the bag. Very few tools really required is a nice bonus. Even the most basic rider should have a spoke wrench.

Unlike your suggestion, I learned wheel lacing on motor wheels and have now branched out to lacing regular front wheels. However, before I ever even thought about lacing a wheel from scratch, I practiced and practiced and practiced truing any old bicycle wheel I could find. Plenty of old junk wheels laying around to have a low risk go at how the tensioning works.

That makes tremendous difference to actually coordinate the hand/eye to bring things into a desired position/tension.

Dishing is also a very useful skill by itself. As Dogman says, run whatcha got with these cheap China kits and start practicing. A little effort learning how to use a spoke wrench and you may be ready when you need it.

 

[Punx0r]

And I'm not sure how anyone could put a bicycle side by side with a powerful ebike and think "clearly both these machines require identical spokes".
Thanks for making my point. That's why the hub motor manufacturers drill their hubs for larger spokes. And because electricity has been generated for years with coal we should continue to do it that way and choke the world instead of mandating every house built be self sustaining electrically. Dumb asses rule the world. That appears to carry over to other fields too.

Please tell me the difference between a human-powered bicycle (downhill, road-racing, cargo) and an ebike in terms of load carrying, speed, torque and impact forces that requires (using Chalo's numbers) a more than doubling of spoke stiffness USING THE SAME FREAKING RIMS?

The idea that because Chinese hubmotor manufacturers drill over-sized spoke holes in their motors indicates they have carefully established the optimum spoke size (for an unknown specification of spoke) for a durable wheel is severely misguided.

I'm unsure how my understanding of material properties and mechanical principle makes me a "dumb ass" who won't let anyone generate electricity by any means other than coal, but if it's true I apologise.

 

[wesnewell]

Really? You can't see the difference between 1 man power (75W) and 1.33 HP for a 1000W motor that can produce more than that at max amps? And most ebike rims are stronger than a typical standard bicycle rim.

 

[Punx0r]

I think you're severely under-estimating the torque a hefty person can generate given appropriate gearing compared to a typical 1000W hubmotor. Also neglecting the torque generated by a front disc brake.

I have limited experience working with bicycle rims, but I binned my standard ebike wheel rim for a standard double-wall bicycle rim. It seems stronger in all regards. I also doubt ebike rims are specially made - probably just standard bicycle rims available locally at a low price.

 

[Hillhater]

Really? You can't see the difference between 1 man power (75W) and 1.33 HP for a 1000W motor that can produce more than that at max amps? And most ebike rims are stronger than a typical standard bicycle rim.

That's a pretty low figure for a human output...even as an average.
Most humans can output 200 watts for a spell and much more at peak ( some have been recorded at neat 2kW peak), and I suspect the human can produce more torque at low rpm than the electric. But the torque produced by either human or emotor pales into insignificance compared to braking torque in a rapid stop.
What is a "typical standard bicycle rim". anyway ? ..a cheap Chinese single wall rim , or a triple wall downhill rim ?
A typical Ebike ( Chinese...most are) will have cheap Chinese rims.
If you are talking a custom performance Ebike, then it will have custom rims....that were probably originally designed for a human powered bike anyway !

 

[wesnewell]

Multiple sources rate 1 manpower as 75W. Also multiple sources rate 1 horsepower as 750W. I'm sure most people can produce more than75W for a short period of time. I can do a lot more than that even at my age for a few seconds. And I'm also sure that a good horse can produce a lot more than 750W of power for the same short period of time, but these are the ratings, like it or not. I didn't just make them up. I know I can produce close to 4KW with my 1000W motor at 100V and 40A.

Just a note, a few days ago I just had a broken spoke for the first time in over 3 years, 10K+ miles on the wheel I built with cheap ($10 for 100 with nipples) and a Weinman DH39 rim. That the head being the place it broke tells me the rim held up fine. The spokes where 12g Primo brand, and while extremely cheap, they have held up well with my 270lbs on them at speeds up to 61.4mph.

 

[amberwolf]

Continuous human power is pretty low, for the average person.

Burst human power can be very high, at minimum several hundred watts, and in the 4-digit range for peak for at least some people, even for the average person; humans have broken chains, sprockets, cranks, etc., from excess power.

You should go to a gym or other place that has stationary exercise bikes with torque and/or power sensors to show you what power you can generate when it's loaded down.

 

[d8veh]

When I was at school we did an experiment to measure our power. We had to run up some stairs to the top of the builing (3 floors) while a colleague timed it. I remember that I scored about 800w, which was just over a horse power. It made me feel quite proud. I told everybody that I was as poweful as a horse. We hadn't learnt the difference between peak and continuous power then.

 

[Hillhater]

It's only peak/max/burst loading that matters for failure scenarios .
For a bike wheel, I suspect the power applied is not the concern. Braking loads, and shock loads from pot holes, kerbs, jumps, etc would be far higher than any stress applied from drive loads.
So, probably better to concern yourself with bike weight, or more importantly , total weight with rider included.