Kelly KBL controller to 9c problem

[shinyballs]

Tried all 36 wiring combinations, not one has worked as expected, i.e. smooth motor running and low 3A or less current.
Some behaviors for configurations that were able to turn the motor forward:
- loud and blew my 4A fuse
- While at the lowest 10% throttle and holding, the motor ramps up as if I'm giving it throttle. It continues to run faster and have to release throttle or it might run full speed. Current is in the highs 2A which is expected but the loss of throttle control is a major concern.

I changed some settings in the Kelly(hall sensory type, control mode, throttle up/down rate, regen) to no avail. Throttle is not shorted, is working ok on my X5 with the same controller, so not likely the cause... but will double-check again.

 

[fany]

In torque mode,it will reach top speed quickly in the low throttle position without any load.
It is used for climbing hills.Usually it will not be a problem in the speed mode or balanced mode.

 

[shinyballs]

Fany, appreciate your reply here...

In torque mode,it will reach top speed quickly in the low throttle position without any load.
It is used for climbing hills.Usually it will not be a problem in the speed mode or balanced mode.

On my no-load test, there is no difference between changing the Control mode to "speed, balanced or torque". The motor just continuous to speed-up even at the lowest throttle position.

Hope you don't mind, I'll share your email and diagram so others can help out with the problem.

Jojo,

The enclosed is the hall/phase timing.
You may find the right combination according to this diagram.

Please see attached example timing Phase EMF vs Hall. Please note the EMF is differential of two motor terminals. Basically EMF zero crossing should align with hall edge.

The controller doesn't detect EMF zero crossing. It just reads hall, and assuming the EMF align with it.

Please let us know your findings.

Thanks,
Fany

View attachment Hall Phase timing.pdf
Do you have the wire color combination to match with the Kelly? I'm out of town so won't be testing again until I come back next week.

 

[fechter]

It sure sounds like it's stuck in the torque control mode. This may be better for actual riding.
I don't have any experience with Kelly programming, but with some software you may need to confirm a change before it will stick.

What motor are you using?
How much current is it drawing at full speed/no load?
What voltage?

 

[shinyballs]

I'm using a 9C 2807 at 73v. Can Kelly just modify their firmware to make the 9C run smoothly?
I haven't tried it at full speed, no load. It blew my 5A fuse at only 50% throttle, it was noisy and vibrates terribly.

It sure sounds like it's stuck in the torque control mode. This may be better for actual riding.
I don't have any experience with Kelly programming, but with some software you may need to confirm a change before it will stick.

What motor are you using?
How much current is it drawing at full speed/no load?
What voltage?

 

[John in CR]

Which Kelly? Is it expecting a hall throttle or a 5kohm throttle?

 

[fechter]

I'm using a 9C 2807 at 73v. Can Kelly just modify their firmware to make the 9C run smoothly?
I haven't tried it at full speed, no load. It blew my 5A fuse at only 50% throttle, it was noisy and vibrates terribly.

Hmm.... that sounds like hall/phase wires are still not in the right configuration.

Any chance the controller is set for 60 deg instead of 120 deg? I'm not sure if the Kelly has that feature.
The 9C should be 120 deg.

 

[keyne]

I've got a kelly KBS72331 working with a 9c on my Downhill bike. I had to swap two of the phase wires and two of the hall wires, it was the same colours on each. I think I swapped blue and Green and left yellow the same - not sure though. I went through all 36 combinations too - definitely one of them works.

 

[Lyen]

Hi Shinyballs,

You may also want to confirm if the controller you have got has an option to set the hall/phase angle to 120 degree. This is the degree angle that the 9C motor direct drive hub motor uses.

Just my 2 cents,
Lyen

 

[shinyballs]

I'm using a KBL72101, could this only be an issue with the KBL series but not for the KBS?
The config software defaults to 120 deg - just for the heck of it, I also tried changing it to 60 deg.

 

[John in CR]

Where did you get the controller? It's not one meant for a BMC motor is it? Those are special.

 

[curious]

Any issues getting KBS series work with 9C ? I am asking since I am about to order KBS72101 for my "long range" project (recumbent).
I have a KEB72601 with x5304 working flawlessly so far on a "power" bike for the second season, including proportional regen controlled by the linear hall sensor mounted on the brake lever. I thought KBS series + 9C should be a no-brainer (except for wiring), but now I am a bit concerned.

 

[Joe90]

Have a look at this
http://www.bergerweb.net/electricbike/Motor-HallPhasingChart.html

This is for your combination of motor and controller

worked first time out for me with a KBS72121

 

[fany]

I've got a kelly KBS72331 working with a 9c on my Downhill bike. I had to swap two of the phase wires and two of the hall wires, it was the same colours on each. I think I swapped blue and Green and left yellow the same - not sure though. I went through all 36 combinations too - definitely one of them works.

Hi,it should be a KEB72331 controller.Actually KBS/KEB/KBL has the same defination for hall/phase.
The motor and the controller are based on 120 degrees hall sensor.
You may not change it.

Since keyne has found the one combination to drive 9C motor.
I think that is what we want to know.It will make the controller drive the motor properly.

 

[moonshine]

Shinyballs,

I'm using the kbl96251 with a cromo and i've had the same issue...i think. NO matter which setting i use (torque, balanced, speed) i can't seem to maintain speed with my magura throttle. The cromo just keeps rampin up. It's really annoying since i can't cruise, i just have to keep accelerating and then let off completely. I set my motor current to 50% and battery to 30%. I kept blowing a 60a fuse when i was doing 50%/50%. I set the phase wires and hall wires to match the colors exactly. I guess i didn't think there were multiple hall wires combos that worked well....i also used 120 degree setting.

let me know what you end up figuring out dude.

 

[shinyballs]

Similar symptoms as my 9c before. I haven't really figured out what's wrong with mine, as it runs smoothly when I use an infineon. You might try contacting fany from Kelly.

 

[Meuh]

It blew my 5A fuse at only 50% throttle, it was noisy and vibrates terribly.

Yes, definively a wrong hall sensor / motor phase arrangment ... it's classic.

For answer about a question for the setting of strategy of the throttle (speed or torque) ... you must set the parameter, finish completly the program of Kelly (it flash ONLY at the end, the all settings !) and cutoff the MAIN battery (include the PWR pink that supply the command of the Kelly controller).

And then only, the throttle setting is available.
I have multiple motors with KBS and KEB ... no problem to have a "very good" throttle response (throttle rate and dead zone is a great feature !).