Kit legality in Europe?

[fitek]

Was wondering whether Europeans are able to "beat" the rather measly legal power and speed limits in the EU by ordering kits instead of complete bikes and then assembling on their own? And/Or do folks buy powerful bikes for "offroad" use and then just use them onroad? Or are y'all just being nice boys and girls and sticking to 250 watts?

 

[HAL9000v2.0]

It is still a grey zone. If you pedal and not drive to crazy nobody will stop you.
Another thing is that nobody know which 250w is it. basicly you can declare motor 250 w an it is. There is still no law to regulate how this is measured. There was iniciative form ETRA to raise power limit but it failed. Now is time to free ride we should use it while we can.

I have a sticker that say:

MAX 249W
per spoke!!!

 

[jbond]

In the UK, bicycles are basically invisible to the law. As long as you look like you are doing bicycle things and not obviously breaking the law (running red lights, riding on the pavement, no lights at night, etc) they ignore you. So nobody turns a hair for doing 20mph on the flat or 25 upwards downhill. The side effect of this is that a lot of legal bikes have a quick and easy way of de-restricting them (disconnect the grey wire) and getting 18-20 mph instead of 15. And a few bikes are sold as "off road only" when they very clearly are designed for use on the road.

This all suits us consumers just fine, the problem comes when people start building bicycles capable of 30 and upwards on the flat without registering them as light motorcycles[1]. But even then it's pretty unlikely to become widespread enough for it to become "An Issue" the way that mini-motos and pocket bikes did a few years ago. The point is that nobody's watching, you're not making any noise. So as long as you're a bit stealthy, you can probably take the piss quietly and get away with it.

UK law and EU law don't match up and will probably be out of step for some time and when it does change it won't be retrospective. So nobody actually knows what the law is. So throttle only is legal and a lot of bikes and kits come with a throttle-pedelec switch or are pedelec only and can be upgraded.

I'm currently running an Alien Aurora which uses the Bafang BPM 36v350w. It's "illegal" but nobody cares. And it doesn't go fast enough (21mph?) for anybody to even notice. The hub has 350w engraved on it, so maybe I should just put a sticker over the number.

[1] We have a legal mechanism in the UK for testing and registering one off prototypes that's not too bad. The problem is you then need tax (free for electric), insurance, a helmet, a license plate and motorcycle bits like indicators.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

This all suits us consumers just fine, the problem comes when people start building bicycles capable of 30 and upwards on the flat without registering them as light motorcycles[1]. But even then it's pretty unlikely to become widespread enough for it to become "An Issue" the way that mini-motos and pocket bikes did a few years ago. The point is that nobody's watching, you're not making any noise. So as long as you're a bit stealthy, you can probably take the piss quietly and get away with it.

I wholeheartedly agree - keep it looking like a bike and don't behave stupidly and no one will care whether it's technically compliant with the regulations or not. Make it look like a motorcycle, ride it at high speeds, or just accelerate rapidly around urban areas, and I think you'd pretty soon get your collar felt.

[1] We have a legal mechanism in the UK for testing and registering one off prototypes that's not too bad. The problem is you then need tax (free for electric), insurance, a helmet, a license plate and motorcycle bits like indicators.

I've been through this with my Yamaha RD50 electric conversion. In principle it's straightforward, in fact a straight conversion from ICE to electric doesn't even need to go through MSVA or any testing, as long as you don't start cutting and shutting the frame. The paperwork is a complete and total nightmare, though. It took 8 months for me to get the registration document, and that was after about two dozen phone calls, a visit to the local licensing office, a rudimentary inspection at my home by a chap from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (who had to ask me what the cylindrical thing with cables was that was driving the chain............) and maybe a dozen letters, often repeating stuff I'd told them months before, because they don't seem to keep proper records. Others have found it easier, but it depends a great deal on who you get to deal with at DVLA.

Jeremy

 

[Racer_X]

Thanks to ES, I got educated in how to build my own E-bike. I first wanted to buy one So I test rode several e-bike here in Sweden and was incredibly disappointed. I went up a grade of about 5% and the ebike stalled. WoW I thought this thing sucks.
So i did my research found a kit that would work for me, bought it and had it shipped here to Sweden, I could have never been more happy with this decision. Even other e-bikers around here wonder what it is with my bike that I am able to smoke them on the hills and the flats.

As far as the EU legality, I have no problems with the law and I run 9c with 48v. My top speed is +40 kmh. but I don't top my speed out in the city too much
I follow jbonds tips

In the UK, bicycles are basically invisible to the law. As long as you look like you are doing bicycle things and not obviously breaking the law (running red lights, riding on the pavement, no lights at night, etc) they ignore you. So nobody turns a hair for doing 20mph on the flat or 25 upwards downhill. The side effect of this is that a lot of legal bikes have a quick and easy way of de-restricting them (disconnect the grey wire) and getting 18-20 mph instead of 15. And a few bikes are sold as "off road only" when they very clearly are designed for use on the road.

I think another good tip is from HAL9000v2.0

nobody know which 250w is it. basicly you can declare motor 250 w an it is. There is still no law to regulate how this is measured. There was iniciative form ETRA to raise power limit but it failed. Now is time to free ride we should use it while we can.

I am going to put a 250w sticker on my motor and a 36v sticker on my ping battery.