Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

[diggler]

Just ordered mine, with the following options, (all of which were free of charge):

5T winding
4mm phase wires. This is twice the "stock" diameter and involves a different shaft and side cover. You lose the brake rotor mount, which honestly I wasn't really going to use anyway. Hopefully this means a solid shaft if they have to change the cover. We'll see soon...
Internal temp sensor added.

I'll post an update when it arrives so you can see what the upgraded phase solution looks like for real. Damn, now I realize I should have asked if they could make one with a freehub cover... Anyone know of any bolt-on freehub options out there were I to make my own right-side cover?

looking forward to the info on your order.
I was thinking about getting that same package.
I didn't know the brake or freewheel didn't come with it.
It's because they use the 2000w motor covers, so they can fit the bigger phase wires through with the bigger axle.
This means it will come basically just like the 2000w one but 1500w instead, and the 2000w one is for a scooter not a bike.
Except for the price of the 2000w motor vs the 1500w with upgrades, it seems to be better to just get the 2000w motor if you have to deal with all the problems of mounting a scooter motor on a bicycle.
The plus side is your getting bigger bearings, witch should be more robust.

P.S. What bike are you putting this in? It will be wider.

 

[Kodin]

More updates!

Apparently Leafbike now has the ability to use cassette freehubs in some of their motors. They've confirmed they can do it with the 1000W unit, the 1500W model was just updated last week and they are still confirming whether this will be possible on that version as well.


Per Leafbike:

* If you need this motor,only place an order for our standard motor,note: “ spline cassette gear ”

Eventually they will upload these options to the site.

Regarding my motor, I'd be fine with the larger cover if that's what it is; I'm building my own swing-arm for a Genesis V2100 anyway. Throwing a DID 1.6"x21" motorcycle rim on it and a Pirelli MT66 80/90-21 tire on the whole shebang.

HOWEVER, this is what I got from Leafbike:

1x set of 48V 1500W rear hub motor (with temp sensor,5T winding rotor,3mm high temp phase wire) – It can be installed disk brake and 7 speed sprocket that still fit for standard 135mm fork.

According to them, they made me a custom shaft for my motor. Also, I just got a text message from DHL that it's out for delivery. Watch this thread for a picture update later today!


UPDATE!!!

Motor has arrived. Left side cover is larger, shaft is wider, shaft is thicker up to just under 135mm. Took lots of pictures and relevant dimensions via caliper.

Photo spam ahead. If you want descriptions of each shot, head to the gallery:
http://zoom-pan-tilt.smugmug.com/Projects/LeafBike-1500W-Motor-Custom/n-9qr7V3

PICS:

3mm phases, halls packaged together with them in a decently thick sheath. Temp sensor goes to the middle pin normally missing from hall plugs.

Cable is long; maybe more-so than necessary, however for certain configurations of frame looks like you'll have lots of flexibility. You can see the extended side cover for the new shaft design.

Spare wire, un-protected other than the small sheath for the temp. sensor. All the tape will be coming off, probably will cover everything with some of that high-temp silicone-and-fiberglass heat shield tubing once I have everything mounted up to the bike.

Cable comes through the bearing, (deeply recessed in the cover), via a nicely-milled circular cut-out in the thick part of the shaft. This ends just at the beginning of the necked-down-and-flattened-on-two-sides threaded section.

Different lighting of the same shot. There is plenty of space in the outer bore before the cable exits to allow for a shaft seal if doing oil-cooling. Definitely will be taking advantage of this.

Difference between covers.

Almost 17mm shaft for the thick section! Damn!

Standard sized flats. Mine is technically 10.03, assuming my calipers are to be trusted...

Eyeballed ~135mm on the caliper, looks like the necked-down part of the shaft is slightly shorter than 135, before the washers are added. Looks good!

Different lighting so you can read the caliper.

Freewheel cover between rotor and widest non-participating-in-freewheel-mount section.

New brake rotor cover is an extra 8mm wider. I assume this is to accommodate the larger bearing and give space so it's mounted inside well.

Rotor clearance: 18.35mm measured from the base of the rotor mount. (Used the right part of the caliper to measure, repositioned here so you can see the measurement).

Distance from base of freewheel thread to necked-down section of shaft.

 

[neptronix]

wow, cassette freehub on such a big motor? i love it!

 

[Kodin]

Yeah! I'll post an update tomorrow with the answer on whether or not they can do it on the 1500W unit. If so, I'm telling them "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!" and buying a new side cover. In the meantime, enjoy the pics, and if anyone wants other measurements, feel free to ask.

I'll probably pop open the motor later this weekend to confirm winding quality, etc... and take measurements for shaft seals to order so I can fill this sucker with ATF.

 

[Kodin]

More new news:

ALL NEW 1500W hubmotors from now on will have 3mm phase wires. Leafmotor changed that last week. Further, you can in fact get a cassette version of the 1500W motor, however it appears the shaft is a different design for the cassette model.
(If you order and want the 3mm wires, you may want to still put "3mm phase wires" in the order comments just in case; otherwise they may try to sell the pre-built old stock off first.)

Yes,we have this 1500w motor with this “spline cassette gear”.



* If need standard 2mm phase wire,we can ship it in 1 business days.（We have this axle for this 1500w spline cassette gear in stock）

* If need 3mm thick phase wire,we can ship it in 5-7 business days．We should customize axle. (We updated this 1500w motor with thicker phase wires last week, but don’t have correct axle for this 1500w spline cassette gear.)



** The price is the same.Not charge other fee.

If possible,you could order our standard 1500w motor on our site directly.When you place an order,please note: spline cassett gear & 3mm phase wire.

OK, good news!

They CAN sell the side cover by itself; Still clarifying that I just want a shaft and side cover; They assumed I didn't have a press to be able to remove the old shaft, which I do:

Me:

If I want to convert one of your 1500W motor already purchased, can you sell the spline cassette gear motor cover and shaft separately? (replacement part)

Leafbike:

Yes,we can.
You only need winding rotor with shaft & spline cassette gear motor cover.(Don’t need hub) Is correct?

Me:

I have a press to be able to remove the shaft from the winding rotor. I need the shaft and spline cassette gear motor cover. (Don't need hub or winding rotor). Is this possible?

Leafbike:

Yes,we can ship a shaft and spline cassette cover.

Me:

What would the cost be before shipping?

Leafbike:

Total price: $80USD ( includes shipping cost)
1 pcs of 3mm phase wire,
1 pcs of shaft,
1 pcs of cover for spline casette gear

* It’s hard to do it.

I ordered the whole kit. I'll let you guys know what the quality is like. Lead time on new shaft design is 1 week before they can ship. I assume that means machining a new shaft, heat treating, etc... Considering you can upgrade the phases at the same time looks like a decent deal.

 

[cwah]

The problem with leafbike is that their controller is S****. Not sine wave and regen set to minimum and not configurable!

 

[neptronix]

Of course, which is why you buy the motor and add your own controller, instead of accept the cut-rate model they include in the full kit.

You should know that by now.

 

[Kodin]

Hey Dave, how did you get your motor open? I'm hesitant to try prying from the edge of the covers after removing the screws as I don't want to break or distort anything. Did you pull the cover from the center or the edge?

 

[neptronix]

I used a gear puller with a disc brake that was bolted on as leverage.
No problem.

ps, that 16mm wide shaft is nice to see. That's usually the realm of high end motors. My 14mm has been good to me despite >6000w of torture. Just a note!

 

[Kodin]

Technically almost 17mm; they had to change to a larger shaft, left side cover, and bearings to admit the 3mm phase wires. ...Which come sheathed in a nice bundle other than the temp sensor wire. I'm assuming the other end of the temp sensor goes through ground or something... Not sure honestly as I haven't bothered to test anything yet. Probably will hook it up to my 24-36V 20A Kelly to make sure it spins when I get back home this weekend. Covers have plenty of space for appropriate seals to be installed too. I'll have to see what I can source once I receive the replacement shaft and freehub cover I'm trying to order. Here's hoping I can easily seal the freehub side so it doesn't spew ATF everywhere... Otherwise I may have to choose between cooling and a proper cassette.

Did you just use a cheapo crappy freewheel to remove the freewheel side?

 

[Kodin]

Also, I noticed there's a leafmotor.com website now selling similar-looking BUT NOT THE SAME motor kits. Please be advised... It's leafbike.com, not leafmotor.com.

 

[neptronix]

Also, I noticed there's a leafmotor.com website now selling similar-looking BUT NOT THE SAME motor kits. Please be advised... It's leafbike.com, not leafmotor.com.

Yes, that site has been around since i posted this.. leafbike also calls their product a leafmotor.
They also have incorrect spec sheets on their page in random listings..

They seriously need to get their shit together. I want to support them because they have a bitchin' product, but WTF.

Luckily, leafmotor.com just sells stuff from golden motors.. there's no 1500w motor listed.. hopefully nobody has ordered one of their 80% efficient heaps of scrap iron..

 

[Cowardlyduck]

I run a Golden motor on my daily commuter...it aint that bad.

I would love to get a Leafmotor, but with the smallest, lightest motor being still over 6KG, it's not an option for me.

I would love it if they produced a 500W motor at 3-3.5KG.

Cheers

 

[dmwahl]

More new news:

ALL NEW 1500W hubmotors from now on will have 3mm phase wires. Leafmotor changed that last week. Further, you can in fact get a cassette version of the 1500W motor, however it appears the shaft is a different design for the cassette model.

That is good news, any word yet on price for just the parts to convert to a cassette? Makes me wish I had waited a few months to order mine so I didn't have to deal with getting a new freewheel, adjusting derailleur, etc.

 

[arkmundi]

neptronix, I followed this thread since the beginning and have to say that your review and evaluation has set some sort of high standard - thanks for it. As I result, my next motor will be this leafbike 1500w. I have since last October destroyed two MAC motors that I was running at 2000 watts. First time had a spin-out that stripped the wires. Had a Grin torque-arm on. Tried to repair with a replacement axle with the wire-set packed. Have not got it working. So got a second motor. This time with two torque-arms, one on either side. Second fail, this time the axle broke at its weak point.

Its your review plus the following image of how the wire-set exits the axle. Looks much better than the MAC.

I repeated the above a second time, attempting an axle/wire-set replacement on the motor again, again failing and buying a third replacement motor. Again two torque-arms on either side with an improved approach to mounting the hardware. We'll see how it rides.

I'm convinced I'm in the upper 5% of torque generated by a MAC. Partly because I'm running at 2000 watts. Partly because I have lots of hills where I live. Partly because I'm on the heavy side. So if I end up destroying a third motor, I'm done & done with MAC and will try a Leaf. I'm car-free and this is primary transport, so can not just give up, though at times my frustration has been such that I've wanted to throw in the towel, or throw on the cover, or simply throw-up. Anyway, thanks for incredible review and thread. :wink:

 

[cwah]

I'm done with geared too. but if you're heavy and have hills... don't you risk to run DD on inefficient band and overheat it?

 

[Kodin]

Leafbike has stated that for a new shaft, upgraded phase wire set, and the freehub cover, it's $80.00 (USD) shipped to the US. Get all the upgrades at once! I ordered the whole set. Yes I know I'll have a spare phase wire set, but there's a bit of a language barrier and I'm impatient. Lead time on the modified shaft for 3mm phase wires is 1 week from receipt of payment. (From the look of the shaft they made for my model, they are very good quality and hardened to some unknown degree. Haven't tried taking knives and files to it to find out what level yet. More to come maybe this weekend!

Also been updating my post with the leafbike convo thread for those who haven't been keeping up or are new.

 

[dmwahl]

$80 shipped seems pretty reasonable to me, Peter (leafbike guy) seems to be on top of his game. Post some pictures or a new thread detailing the work if you can, I for one would be interested in seeing how it goes. I'll probably just order a new motor and sell the one I have on here rather than trying to retrofit it, but it would still be good to see how it goes for you.

 

[neptronix]

Glad i can be of help, arkmundi and others.

I'm a long time MAC fanboy and even helped popularize the motor on this forum when most people thought it was just a knock off of the BMC. I've lived in Utah for a little over 2 years now, and Colorado Springs, CO. before. It was the long, steep hills of Colorado Springs that ended up demagnetizing my MAC motor from overheating. My hills in urban Utah are san francisco-esque. The leaf motor deals with them much better.

The only reason i am abandoning the leaf motor and going the MXUS v2 way is because in order to keep up with traffic speeds, i need to maintain 45mph on roads with a 40-45mph speed limit and no bike lane. After about 5 miles of climbing hills at that speed, the leaf is critically hot when it's 80f out. This is an extreme use case for any motor, really. The MAC would have completely melted down doing that on the flat within minutes ( i know this because i tried it and my gears literally melted ).

If you have less demanding uses, this motor is perfect up to about 40mph for long runs and minor hill climbing, or major hill climbing at slower speeds. It'll do that indefinitely, but 45 is where you start playing with the danger zone. You'll see lower watt consumption than the MAC across the entire speed range as well. The only price you pay is in motor weight.

leafbike does make some smaller DD hubs with the same ~90% efficient design, but you unfortunately won't save much weight with them.

 

[cwah]

So does the motor has the same torque as the mac at the same power level? Because bigger motor with bigger magnet can rival geared motor. Because it's only 35mm magnet width, it will have less torque than the mxus at 45mm or cromotor at 50mm

 

[neptronix]

The MAC makes a lot of torque per watt, but the even my default crazy 40mph on 48v wound leaf will just blow it away. Not on a per-watt basis, but on a power handling basis. If you put the motors head to head on say, 1500w.. the MAC will probably win in the short term, but be passed by the leaf in the long term. Now if you put 3000w into the leaf, it will decimate the MAC on acceleration.

The lower speed winding ( 5T? ) probably is on par with the 8T MAC in terms of watts input vs. torque out - at low levels anyway. Bump the power past the nominal rating and it'll kill the MAC even harder.

The MAC can take a good amount of power and put it into the ground for it's size for sure, it's just that it can't sustain that high power due to lower efficiency. It's kind of deceptive in that regard. Real easy to blow one out on 2000w because the motor gives you the impression that it's still running strong until it overheats.

 

[cwah]

I'm currently using the leafbike motor 1000W on 26" bike. It does work very well and I really like the fact that it's super silent.

I only run it at 1600W because of my controller and also because I need long range so I can't afford to blow away too many watts.

To some extent, the torque disappoint me compared to my BPM and BBS02 who both only peak around 1200W.

I'm currently considering either:
- Keeping my leaf motor 1000W and add the BBS02 on top of it for better acceleration/torque....
- Or just upgrade to a single bigger motor such as the Mxus V2 or Qshin motors...

Dilemma!

 

[neptronix]

Measure your watts per speed. That's what matters most when you are going for high range. My recommendation would be to crank it up to 2000w for quicker acceleration. It will only draw that for a short period of time, after all. I'm almost certain that you are going to come up with better watts per speed figures on this motor than the bafang/mac/bmc type motors.

With a 26 inch wheel, that's my observation anyway. I was shocked when i saw the watts per speed. I even test them again with a standalone cycle analyst. The watt numbers came out about 5% lower.

I get incredible distance out of my 25ah 48v pack with this motor if i don't go 45mph..

 

[Kodin]

I can't wait until the weekend... I get to fly home and power up the motor to make sure everything works! I'll see what I can do about popping the motor open as well so I can verify build quality on the 5T wind option. Due to battery limitations all I have right now is 6S/5Ah of battery, so I'll see if it'll run on my 20A Kelly controller to confirm she spins up. Dave, what's startup currrent look like for yours? Will I blow a fuse trying with such a tiny controller?

Oh, quick update: looks like the cassette upgrade includes TWO covers and a shaft. Apparently the shaft design is different yet again. Go figure! I'd say including shipping $80 is an awesome deal if both covers are included along with the shaft. Will post pics once I receive them. Parts are being built as I write this, should be ready in a week. Last time they shipped, it only took a few business days to arrive, so look for something sometime around the Saturday after next. Stay tuned!

 

[neptronix]

I have my infineon currently set to 90 amps, so my startup current is 90 amps.

You're going to need to order a real controller soon. A 12FET infineon-type controller from em3ev or lyen will do just fine for that higher turn count winding.