Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

The engineers measure copper wire in the square cross-section measurement as it pertains to current-carrying capability and resistance in Ohms. The wire is actually wound in a round configuration of twisted strands In Real Life (IRL). This means that the actual measurement of copper strands in a circular cross-section will be slightly wider.

2.8mm actual diameter IRL = 2mm (squared) in "engineer-speak"

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-12/conductor-size/
 
You guys have convinced me enough after reading the entire thread so a 5T hub is now in transit to replace a Mac10t with a clutch on the way out. Wheel will be built up by a local builder. Nearly ordered the 6T as 45-50kmhr is fast enough. Will run 16s 30amp. Loads of power with the Mac atm as I pretty much only off road (fitted to a Giant Reign current AUW 23kg). I know I know its overkill but I want that thermal headroom and durability. I'll see how it pans out. Maybe i'll be doing big ski jumps from all that weight on the arse end now :roll:

Experience with leaf so far excellent. I emailed a few questions, responses almost instant. Ordered / paid and shipped 24hr later via EMS. Postage to Perth Australia ~$120US.

Mike
 
spinningmagnets said:
The engineers measure copper wire in the square cross-section measurement as it pertains to current-carrying capability and resistance in Ohms. The wire is actually wound in a round configuration of twisted strands In Real Life (IRL). This means that the actual measurement of copper strands in a circular cross-section will be slightly wider.

2.8mm actual diameter IRL = 2mm (squared) in "engineer-speak"

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-12/conductor-size/
Click to expand...

Thank you Spinningmagnets.

So does that mean we all have 'engineering speak' 2mm phase wires, or did anyone receive 'engineering speak' actual 3mm phase wires?
 
A useful read if people want to know all the ins and outs of wire gauge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge
 
I'm just going by that the cable sheath is labeled as being for 3mm phase wires. Kinda doubt it more now, as they likely measure with insulation and round up. Either way, since I have my motor completely torn apart, (parts are in at least 3 separate rooms in the house so far,) I don't think I'll be re-using the wiring they shipped me and just roll my own from scratch. I have some really nice sheathed 6-conductor lying around, might as well use it for the halls.
 
I keep seeing a risunmotor 48v1,500 watt $179.00 free shipping please let know if 72v needed. Sorry don't know how to post a link yet. What's the deal with this ?
 
A: shipping will likely bring it to the same price. B: until you can see the inside of the motor you can't be sure it's the same. To post a link grab the URL and hit the URL button then put it between the square bracket blocks.
 
Looks a bit narrow; that the 1000 or 1500W motor? Looks more like the 25mm stator 1000W model if it's even the same motor internally; side covers are used by tons of motors so it can sometimes be a crap-shoot to buy one sight-unseen online.
 
How does it compare performance wise vs the mxus? Does the 10mm additional aluminium stator make any significant difference? I need extra torque but less weight
 
Yes the weight of 3,000 muxus is much for a bike, but 300.00 shipped. I do want a 1,500 watt for it's size, but don't like the wire coming out of the end of the axle of the leaf. Compromise ??? Why ?
 
The wire bundle on the leaf 1500w doesn't come out the end of the axle. It comes out at an angle from the side of the axle between the dropouts. I have my torque arm on this side because the slot leaves less material in contact with the dropout flats.

Merry Christmas
Patrick
 
Fluxshifter do you have both winds of the 1,500 motor ? I would like the speed and see how it does on hills @ 72v 40amp ? It's the same size as a muxus or 9c spoke wise ? 168mm ?
 
I have only used the 5t motor. I recently put my 5t in a 19" motorcycle wheel and the torque is great. Over all diameter of the 19"x2.25" vee rubber vrm 013 tire is 23.5" On 18s 45a it will do 41 mph on the flats and pull 32 mph up a 5% grade. With the 26" big apple tire, 27" OD, the top speed was 45 mph so I didn't loose too much speed when switching to M/C rim. I can hit 50 mph on 24s charged to 96v. At this voltage I can have bursts of 6200 watts on a 12 fet. It is cold here in Colorado right now so I can go 50 mph using 4400 watts for 10 miles and the motor stays below 100c. I don't think I can sustain 50 mph in the summer even with the high voltage and lower load of the smaller wheel. Riding uphill is a different story. The steeper the hill the faster it will overheat. I think the 4t might be a little more efficient at 40 mph but not sure till we see these motors in the simulator. If you want to run a lower voltage go with the 4t like Nep did.

It is the same OD diameter of a mxus or 9c motor of 243mm. I used a flange diameter of 233mm to calculate the spoke length using ebikes.ca calculator. The 19"x1.4" rim I used had an ERD of 469mm bringing the spoke length to 130mm.

19"x1.4" rim from Treatland.tv
Motor painted flat black inside and out.
19 rim rotor.jpg
New 6003 bearings on both sides from VXB
19 rim freewheel.jpg
View attachment 1
money.jpg
 
Yep the efficiency is similar given the laminations. Just the different stator and lower torque due to narrower stator. But lighter.
 
Hi Guys,
Looking to get one of these conversion kits for my first DD motor. Currently have MAC 10T on Fully Suspended 26" and BBSHD on Motobecane Lurch Fat Bike. Loving my ebikes!

I want one of the new motors that Leaf mentions here: BRAND NEWEST LEAF BIKE 2015 Version Black Lightning Brushless, Gearless hub motor! Does anyone know if all the 1500 watt kits now have the newer motors with thinner laminations, etc...?

I love the torque of the MAC 10T. I would like to go around 30-35Mph at 48V or so, but prefer torque over speed. Should I get the 5T version of the Leaf Motor?
Does anyone know if their 40Amp controller will allow for a 52V battery or is it held at 48V?

Do you guys recommend their controller, display, throttle, etc... kit or something different?

Thanks for any input!
 
Hi Trailblazer, I'll receive my 5t 1500w leaf back from the wheel builder later this week - built into a 26" Alex Supra rim. This will replace my Mac10t on a Giant Reign (dually). I'll be running the same 16s 35a battery/controller and reconfigure the CAv3 settings a little. The little mac is a powerhouse and I dont want to replace it but the clutch wont hold and my thermal cut is reached too soon at this power level. Im sacrificing more rear biased unsprung weight (+2.7kg) / loosing rear gears / wont freewheel as well and being less conspicuous - less of a 'bike'. I have my doubts it'll have the same acceleration at this power level without feeding it more amps but we'll see - I have a small test lined up for it on a hill. I'm not expecting too much as to not to be disapointed. The Mac is the only hub i've owned so I have nothing to compare too. Cant get over that the leaf motor weighs the same as my roadie!!!

I doubt they would have changed the lamination thickness from Neptronix' original tare down. They come with 3mm phase wires and i've asked for a temperature sensor.

I'll report back a comparison

Mike
 
Hi Mike,

Thanks so much for the thorough description of your project. I am looking forward to hearing your experience with the Leafmotor vs. the MAC. I love my MAC, however I have exactly the same issues that you do. I have already replaced the clutch and it overheats way too quickly. It's a great motor, just limited for the AMPS that I like to put through it.

So you are going to use the same controller/throttle/etc from the MAC setup? Interesting...wow, this could be easier and cheaper than I thought!

I anxiously await your report!
 
Yes, my Mac was also perfectly reliable (@ 1500 battery watts) until I increased the power level. Gem of a motor and wish the clutch had held - I could live with the thermal limitations. I read about welding the clutch so thats an option if the DD dont cut it.

I'm going to be using my current em3ev 9fet 4011 controller/thumb throttle/cav3/3 toggle power switch. The hall plug is a direct plug and play, even the temp sensor is in the correct spot. I only soldered on some 4mm bullets on the phase wires. I can't confirm it actually works though as I passed it over to the wheel builder immediately after but here's hoping :) Can't for the life of me get the em3ev infinnion programming to work with windows 7 but with 16s it'll hold 2000-2100w under load with the Mac so that's what battery draw i'll try and go from there. I don't want to go too crazy as I only use a 6600mah pack

Mike
 
I'm in a bit of a quandary here. Here's what I have: 135mm dropouts, XT Rear Derailleur, Dura Ace indexed shifter, Shimano XT 9 speed cassette, with 6.57mm chain width, or in other words, it's a Super Narrow HG drivetrain. I REALLY don't want to swap out the entire drive train and I'd like to be able to shift with indexing reliably. I *think* I can do 7 speed freewheel with the Leaf 1500 while not having to pry out the rear forks beyond 135mm. But I've serious concerns with swapping to a 7 speed freewheel because the sprocket spacing is typically wider (see http://sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html) and I anticipate shifting/chain issues. Also, the only one that I could find that drops down to 11T is the DNP Epoch Freewheel 7spd 11-32 (not exactly my idea of quality).

Here's the questions that I hope yall can answer:
Am I blowing the chain/shifting issues out of proportion?
On freewheels, is there a way to tighten up the spacing between sprockets?
Is there a way to use a screw-on spline that'll convert from freewheel mount to a cassette such that I can roll my own 7 speed spocket spacing, even if I have to shorten the spline?
Do y'all think there's a way that I could get them to build me a side cover that is concave such that it'll accept a sunk-in full cassette but usability would be limited to the outer gears?
Any other options I may have not considered?

Thanks,
Tired of being the hamster
 
As I'm still engineering a cassette mount for my 5T, no, you can't convert a motor set up for freewheel to freehub; the shaft would need to be reduced to the point that I wouldn't really trust it to be safe. If anything you MIGHT be able to get away with a custom-made 14-15mm (I forget exactly) shaft and a DT-Swiss ratchet style freehub, but you'd be doing as much engineering as I am to get there. Maybe more. The freewheel motor shaft comes out with something like 17mm off the stator, which is quite generous for strength reasons. It's what I'd stick to if I were you. Worst-case pick up some used 7-speed shifting components. Even if you buy all new shifter parts, It'll be the cheaper option by far. I think all you'll need is a 7-speed indexed shifter as the travel range for the derailleur will be the same overall.
 
Makes sense! Highest copper fill. Thanks for following up. :) It'll be nice to see this one finally added to the simulator when Justin has the time to dyno.
 
Kodin said:
As I'm still engineering a cassette mount for my 5T, no, you can't convert a motor set up for freewheel to freehub; the shaft would need to be reduced to the point that I wouldn't really trust it to be safe. If anything you MIGHT be able to get away with a custom-made 14-15mm (I forget exactly) shaft and a DT-Swiss ratchet style freehub, but you'd be doing as much engineering as I am to get there. Maybe more. The freewheel motor shaft comes out with something like 17mm off the stator, which is quite generous for strength reasons. It's what I'd stick to if I were you. Worst-case pick up some used 7-speed shifting components. Even if you buy all new shifter parts, It'll be the cheaper option by far. I think all you'll need is a 7-speed indexed shifter as the travel range for the derailleur will be the same overall.
Click to expand...

It looks like I'm back at the drawing board again.

Now, I'm looking at trying to use http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/motors/m3540ss.html with one on each side of a tadpole trike within 20” rims. The problem there is that the only thing to keep the axel from rotating is using the wire slot on the axel as a key and trying to get something custom that'll lock it (can't use a torque arm). Or, better yet, maybe I can get Leaf to customize something for me that doesn't require questionable retrofitting.

If I can get Leaf to customize to allow 2WD, that would effectively double the system cost and now I'm looking to right size. Loving the new possibilities here but not the cost!

Is there an optimal 2WD capable Adaptto controller and 4s battery series system with voltage, amps and C properties (I'll use parallel connections to address range) that anyone can recommend?

Allex said:
So guys, just want to say that I will send the motor to Justin soon.
It will prolly be 35mm one and a 5T(this is how Justin wants it)
Click to expand...

While it bugs me to not see a Leaf in his simulator, why send the lesser of the two and not the one that everyone is most excited about? To me, this seems like a pre-handicapped entry loaded with ulterior motives.
 
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