Learning about BMS

Ecky

1 W
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
50
Location
New Zealand
Hi all,

I'd like to begin educating myself on battery management systems, particularly how LiPo packs are monitored and balanced. Can anyone recommend some resources?

Looking at a few preassembled packs, it appears they typically have a single monitoring wire from each cell in series. From this, it stands you can do a bit of math to measure the voltage at various points in the pack, and subtract out previous cells, to get the next cell's voltage. E.g. monitoring point 1 is 3.75v, monitoring point 2 is 7.52v, suggesting cell 1 is 3.75v and cell 2 is 3.77v.

It's unclear to me how one might actively balance cells within a pack when wired this way, however. So, how do "active" BMS typically work? Any suggestions on beginner's guides?
 
I don't know of any complete guides, but there are quite a few posts with various details in the many pack build and repair threads, or the "which BMS" type threads, etc.

By "LiPo" which specific cells do you mean? It's a term most commonly associated here with the RC LiPo pouch bricks, but it can be used for various cells.

In the typical battery pack, cells are wired in parallel groups, then stacked in series, so most packs are described as so many cells in series, and so many in parallel, such as 24s10p, meaning 24 series sets of 10 parallel cells (240 cells total, in this case). The parallel groups are effectively a single larger-capacity cell. (if it's all designed and built properly).

When you measure the cells at the sense wires, you should measure between them as pairs, so you can directly see each group's voltage. That is what the BMS does (switching it's measurement between channels).

Balancing can be done actively or passively. Active is usually a capacitive charge-shuffling process, where the BMS drains some charge from a high cell group into a capacitor, then charge pumps that into a different cell group. Passive just does the draining part, into shunting resistors (one per channel, per parallel group) that dissipate this as heat.


You can look up active balancing BMS chip spec sheets and see more detailed descriptions / circuits of how they work.
One possible search


What project do you have in mind that you need the BMS info for, and what do you need the BMS to do for you, specifically? Knowing what it is will help us answer your questions better, suggest BMS features, types, or even specific ones, etc.
 
Lately I've been considering getting another G1 Honda Insight. The team over at Insight Central have built a very robust system that supports complete manual hybrid system control and comes pre-programmed to work with a few commonly found batteries, ranging from a like-for-like lithium replacement, to a plug-in hybrid option allowing for 1-200 miles of continuous assistance.

I can't easily find the supported cells in New Zealand, so I'd likely need to find my own and characterize them. So, step one is to begin collecting lithium, and then begin educating myself. The cells I don't use will be useful for something. I just don't want to use a relatively less safe chemistry and accidentally set it on fire.

I've found I can get stacks and stacks of free, healthy lithium hybrid packs locally. I brought two home to pull apart that turned out to come from Honda Fit/Jazz hybrids, ~2014 and 2015. They're Panasonic, with EH5 as the identifying label.

A few years back I was big into building ebikes. Generally, the packs I used were off the shelf stuff that had very rudimentary BMS PCBs. The packs weren't used anywhere that they were likely to be a life safety issue, or cause serious property damage, so I just strung a few packs in series to get my desired voltage, and then charged them individually.

I'm most interested in learning about passive and active cell-level balancing techniques, as well as how to (with cheap and available equipment) reliably chart the charge and discharge curves, as well as ESR.
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20240420_012531660.jpg
    PXL_20240420_012531660.jpg
    1.1 MB · Views: 2
First, some thoughts:

As long as you are not using the built-in monitoring system the Insight would have (that probably needs direct cell access, and/or communication with the original?), and just need to feed the main B+ and B- to the system, then a typical BMS can work...but I would use one that doesn't use FETs for output, rather one that controls a contactor. It doesn't actually have to operate the contactor, but the signal it outputs for that can be used to provide a warning to you (or the system) that you should stop right now and check what the BMS sees as wrong with the pack that it wanted to turn off all power to protect the cells.


Cell testing, etc., there's a number of good threads for, about testing various kinds of cells. Stuff by Pajda, Dogdipstick, etc, that include specific testing equipment and such. I don't have any links ATM, but you can look thru their posts from their profiles to find the threads/posts about that, and some of the other posters in those threads have threads/etc of their own that also discuss these things and may be of help.




If the cells are well-matched, good quality, and are not fully discharged and not fully charged for each cycle, then balancing won't matter all that much, as they will stay balanced. The EIG C020 cells I use are older than your cells, and still stay balanced on their own without any BMS...but I am using them well within their limits, not pushing them hard.

Balancing itself is just keeping them all the same voltage at some point in the SoC curve; usually that's the full charge voltage, or whatever voltage the BMS (if programmable) is set to do so at. It does not change whatever capacity/etc the cells actually have, it only helps you use more of it as the cells age and become different from each other.


If you have to use balancing to keep the pack functional, then the larger the differences between cells, the higher the balancing current will have to be to keep it balanced in short charge sessions. The lower the balancing current is, the longer it will take to balance cells with large differences.

Passive balancing just connects resistors across each cell group as it exceeds the balance start voltage limit of the BMS, and disconnects them as it drops below that.

Active balancing varies in exact method, but is essentially what I described before.

You can buy separate balancers in either type, that aren't part of the BMS, if necessary, but if you're using good matched cells it won't be, until aging unmatches them eventually.



Some of the BMS are also programmable for many limits, and have BT to talk to an app on your phone or anohter device, and some have dedicated screens that can connect to them wired (or sometimes wirelessly) that can be mounted in the vehicle for monitoring. JBD, ANT+, and some like DALY, but you have to be careful buying any of these because they're so popular there are probably counterfeits out there that aren't built / designed / etc properly....



Physically building the pack, I recommend that if you can you keep the cells in their original modules that provide stack compression and protection, even if you change the interconnections for a different number of series or parallel cells, or wire around dead cells, etc.

If you have to take the pack apart / put it into a different enclosure, I recommend building it to compress the large faces of the cells thru the stack; there are a few threads and posts about this scattered around the forum.









PS: I wish I had access to those stacks of cells.... :) (just a small stack would be enough :lol: )
 
I'm new to Electric Bike's but have 4.2 conversions and 2 factory Bike's.I added Active balance to my aftermarket batteries.The batteries have a BMS I just didn't want to rely on it to balance the cells.
 
Back
Top