LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Testing lasted about 7hrs, but we weren't under full loading. The only polution rules standby power generators have to follow is to dump the exhaust above a certain height, and not exceed the noise limits. All the energy was dumped into resistive loadbanks. When we test in winter, you can actaully see a neat inverted cone shape of warm air rising high into the sky. Seems like a big waste, but it's just a drop in the bucket for my datacenter.

Yep, I had a very light road bike. That was the way to ride if you have to pedal. Super light bikes feel so free, and they practically pedal themselves. IMO, a light roadbike > a wimpy electric bike. I road this bionix lithium full suspension bike, and it was no good. Just a light roadbike feels a lot better to ride IMO. Either be powered, or don't be powered, but the halfway stuff seems like you pay a lot of the penalties in weight and lost nimbleness, yet still have to pedal...

I did not build this bike to pedal it. I built this bike to wheelie, and hopefully be able to wheelie most all the time, because I happen to be very fond of wheelies.

Anybody interested in some updated pictures?
 
liveforphysics said:
Anybody interested in some updated pictures?
Click to expand...

Nah, not really.
Your pictures are boring
I bet you probably steal most of them from other peoples build threads.... :roll:


-Patrick
 
liveforphysics said:
Testing lasted about 7hrs, but we weren't under full loading.
Click to expand...

Cool, I had a stat in my head that a 2MW diesel generators burns 500 litres/hr full load.

The only polution rules standby power generators have to follow is to dump the exhaust above a certain height, and not exceed the noise limits. All the energy was dumped into resistive loadbanks. When we test in winter, you can actaully see a neat inverted cone shape of warm air rising high into the sky. Seems like a big waste, but it's just a drop in the bucket for my datacenter.
Click to expand...

Drop in the bucket of oil consumption in general but dirty and wasteful nonetheless. Good info on the rules, sadly it does not surprise me that they are so minimal.

Yep, I had a very light road bike. That was the way to ride if you have to pedal. Super light bikes feel so free, and they practically pedal themselves. IMO, a light roadbike > a wimpy electric bike.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Although, even with a mild ebike there are times when the assistance is quite noticeable. For example, lightly pedaling at 40kph (~25mph) up a long gentle hill into a headwind. Imagining do the same on my unpowered road bike gives me visions of pain and muscle soreness for days later.

Anybody interested in some updated pictures?
Click to expand...
For sure. Can't wait to read about the maiden voyage too. I am assuming they'll be a video of you wheeling off into the sunset? :wink: :D
 
These are the pictures before I mounted the heat sinks. The flat square areas above and below the motors are where the heat sinks are mounted now.

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That box in the last picture is a charger. I have two. Each one can do 1200w charging.

I should be able to drain my pack down to 20%, and then re-charge to 100% in 20mins. Obviously not nearly as good as when I spend 1-2mins to fuel my gas bikes, and then get a hundred miles of hard riding, but certianly less smelly and more widely available.
 
I'm going to bring the bike inside in the light and take some pictures for you guys with the heatsinks mounted.
 
If you are going to go 3C keep an eye on it.
With my older Zippy R packs I have 1 out of 8 that gets warm at 2C
At 3C it gets very warm so I have backed off to 1.5C charging.

I have been charging my newer Standard Zippy packs at 2C and they get a little warm
These are the el'cheapo $75 15C unlabeled units though.
I suspect that your Rhino packs will do alright. Will be interesting to see.

Bike looks good.
I look forward to pictures of burnt finger meat while you build your pack.
Even though I am a card carrying expert in Electronics design I *Always* burn something up.....

-methods
 
I've tried charging the Rhino packs at 3c and they take it like a good date. They get luke-warm. They are pretty conservatively rated as 20-30c LiPo, as they have very low Ri.

I will keep an eye on them though. I have this hunch they will get cycled maybe 20 times or so before I scrap this build and go for something in the 30kw range.

You are going to love the "W" I added to the stickers on the motors. LOL! I will go great with my "Max Power 348W" stickers for the bike. LOL
 
Now those dumb looking flat places have dumb looking heatsinks/fans unstead. The shafts of the motors are still long until I find the right impellers to mount onto them, then I will cut them to length. I may also paint everything in flat black. I hate shiny crap, and I hate polished/chrome stuff with a firey passion.

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In the last photo, notice the clever "W" at the end of the -130 :)

Yes, officer, get your RCW code book out. I have two 130w motors, I am definately well below the 350w limit. I just have very strong legs.
 
Thank you for all the kind feedback to the photos I posted tonight! She's not pretty, but she does look tough!!! :)


I did some rough price totals for my bike project.

I did buy some parts that I didn't use, like a 220amp kelly and some other stuff I never opened the box on, so I'm not counting that stuff.

For the whole project, including the bike, the motors, bearings, batteries, controllers, throttle, aluminum, steel, hardware, and wire/connectors, I'm looking at a total of $2050 invested.

I remember having twice that amount of money into a non-electric light weight pedal bike. This hobby is SOOO CHEAP!!!

I'm all ready thinking about quad giant CNCaddict motors and 50,000w for me next bike :twisted: :twisted: With LiPo, the bike could still be lighter than most all other E-bikes, even with 50kw of power!!!! :) :p :) :D
 
I love the stickers.

So, your area is 350 watt limit? Wierd. Illinois is 1500 watts and 30mph. US federal law states 750 watts.

Anyway, it is definately looking good. You may find that, unless you are looking for very high top speed, you will not be able to pull more than about 15kw anyway without flipping over. Also, the rare occasion you want that much power will be in very tiny bursts, just enough to snap the front wheel off the ground, then you will settle into less than 5000 watts to sustain that wheelie even if you are really rippin. :D

That being said, back on '90, when I was 19, I had a 85KX80 with the 105 big bore kit, PSI pipe, it was case and cylinder ported and polished, modded piston, hemi head, etc, etc etc. That thing was faster than any 125 I ever owned and far lighter. I could just put it in 6th gear, nail the throttle, and let the tire spin everywhere I went, including the pavement. (of course, it needed an engine rebuild every 10 to 12 days.) :mrgreen:

So, I totally understand surplus power.

I cannot wait till this summer. I think this will be the holy grail season for E-bikes on the ES!

Matt
 
I looked up my city laws a while back for E-bikes, and 350w is the max. What a bunch of dicks.

Fortunately, I've never really cared much about laws, and I don't plan on starting anytime soon. I do care about not getting my bike taken though, and I think the stickers combined with no cop having anyway to check the power I draw will workout just fine for me :)

Maybe 50kw is too much for a pedal bike, but maybe not. If I can easily manage 14kw, then I would like to at least double or tripple my power at the least. I like a machine that makes me fear it's power.
 
I completely know what you are talking about.

The rear wheel is the only weak link you your bike anyway. Worse case scinerio, you will need to build a stronger wheel and maybe a custom hub to handle the power. I think the farthest you would have to go would be no freewheel and direct drive if the freewheel cannot handle the torque.

That is something that would need to be proven, though. I think you are on the right track in your methodology.

Matt
 
LFP (LiveForPhysics),

Great to see everything coming together. I worry that it's not going to be the adrenaline rush you crave. You just have to figure out how to take it to its limits in ways that take advantage of how it's better than a motorcycle due to it being so much lighter and more maneuverable, AND it's greater freedom from the rules of the road. In an urban environment it should be the fastest way for you to get from point A to pt B, so assuming no one will hassle you for jumping curbs and cutting corners, then that's likely to be where you appreciate it most, just bashing anywhere you want to go.

John
 
John in CR said:
LFP (LiveForPhysics),

Great to see everything coming together. I worry that it's not going to be the adrenaline rush you crave. You just have to figure out how to take it to its limits in ways that take advantage of how it's better than a motorcycle due to it being so much lighter and more maneuverable, AND it's greater freedom from the rules of the road. In a metropolitan environment it should be the fastest way for you to get from point A to pt B, so assuming no one will hassle you for jumping curbs and cutting corners, then that's likely to be where you appreciate it most, just bashing anywhere you want to go.

John
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Perfect point!

Matt
 
That is a good point..... For normal people like you and I.
Luke on the other hand.... He is already ridding over peoples front lawn on his ICE bike :lol:


-methdods
 
methods said:
That is a good point..... For normal people like you and I.
Click to expand...

Since when did we decide you were normal, I think you and Luke get to live in the same category. Aren't you the only person who managed to burn up an 5XXX motor? :mrgreen:

Back to your lipo charging post, all my zippy batteries say not to charge over 1c, is that just liability talk or should I stay below 1c (I want them to last as I am a poor student, and cant buy more)
 
nomad85 said:
(I want them to last as I am a poor student, and cant buy more)
Click to expand...

Then stick to 1C :D

Fechter says it best: It is just about the internal resistance and the heat. Go ahead and try charging at 1.5C and see if the packs get warm. If so, back off a little. If not, try 2C. Your packs will last the longest if you charge them in such a way that they dont get hot.

Nearly every Lipo pack in existence says to only charge at 1C (with the exception of some high end RC packs)
If not for anything else. . . That is a liability thing. Cant have Lipo packs burning old ladies to death.

Seriously though. . . Luke and I aren't try to make things last so..... "Dont try this at home kids" :mrgreen:


-methods
 
I rode the bike.

But only with 1 motor and 2 lipo packs. I threw something together just to try it out before bed when I got home from work this morning.

It sounds like a turbine engine. Not a bad sound, and nothing like a piston engine sound.

One one motor, acceleration was OK. It does wheelie at partial throttle, but only at low speeds. Hopefully the second motor and 4 times the battery will fix that. I was able to pass cars, even on hills. I think it tops out around 45-50mph on just the single motor. That speed felt boarderline manageable in traffic, which means I need to run longer gears to make this thing way way faster.

The bad side is that the ESC would cut out on any rapid throttle change. I think it's loosing sync :( If you only make smooth throttle adjustments, it manages to hold sync fine, and give it the full power. This is not acceptable, and I want scorpion to hurry up with the 300a 16s BESCs.

Overall, it was somewhere between OK and fun with just one motor. I ziptied the pedal chain up off the sprockets so I would have to hear it dinging around. Now I've got to get some sleep before I gotta wake up for work again tomorrow night.

I'm sleepy :(

Best Wishes,
-Luke

PS: Methods has a picture of the temporary setup on his phone that I sent him. It's way too ghetto to post any pics of though. I just ziptied unprotected LiPos and controller onto the bike...
 
I guess that means I'm gonna bypass the RC gig and go straight to an Agni, and build a featherweight e-motorcycle with pedals. I'll lose an extra 10lbs to make up the weight difference if I have to. I hope that 2nd motor gets you up into your fun range.

John
 
With two motors, you will probably more than double your output because you will not be overtaxing that one poor motor.

My guess is you will see far less voltage drop under load with all the cells and the two motors will run in their sweet spot. So, you will probably have quite a handful of a bike when you have the entire setup running.

Two HV110s will solve the sync issue. But, that will limit you to about 12kw burst, 10kw sustained. That should be PLENTY, though. If it is already wheelying, the entire setup will really fly.

Congrats!

Matt
 
Hey watta nice project you have!..

I think when your two motor and esc will operate ok and all fixed you will be ready for the 0-100m drag :twisted:

i'd love to know what is your best time!

Me best was 8.71 if i remember but at 70 or 80A on the controller

can you post a vid with this crazy jet sound?! :mrgreen:

Doc
 
Great to see the progress here. How was the chain noise? Can't wait to see the video :twisted:
 
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