LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!
- Thread starter liveforphysics
- Start date
liveforphysics
100 TW
Thanks Miles!
I like machine guns
I've never noticed high speed chain drives being noisey in the racing karts and motorcycles I use. They always have a loud engine roaring to drown out all the drivetrain noise. It will be kinda fun to finally hear what one sounds like
Honda invented a type of chain they use to drive camshafts that they call "silent chain". It uses no rollers, and continous end plates overlapping. It's also very strong due to having double the end-plates. Maybe if the drivetrain noise is a bother I could setup something to adapt to use it. All custom sprockets would not be much fun to make though...
BTW- Miles, I thought your build was fantastic!
I like machine guns
I've never noticed high speed chain drives being noisey in the racing karts and motorcycles I use. They always have a loud engine roaring to drown out all the drivetrain noise. It will be kinda fun to finally hear what one sounds like
Honda invented a type of chain they use to drive camshafts that they call "silent chain". It uses no rollers, and continous end plates overlapping. It's also very strong due to having double the end-plates. Maybe if the drivetrain noise is a bother I could setup something to adapt to use it. All custom sprockets would not be much fun to make though...
BTW- Miles, I thought your build was fantastic!
liveforphysics
100 TW
I had only ever seen silent chain in Honda's cam drive setups, but it turns out you can buy silent chain and sprockets for whatever!
Sweet!
Here is silent chain in very small pitch:
http://www.ramseychain.com/prod_sc_pt_316.asp
This would be wicked for making beefy double reduction first stages. They sell pulleys in all sizes too!
And the regular full strength stuff would be ideal for final drive connections:
http://www.ramseychain.com/prod_sc_pt_rpv.asp
I wish I would have thought about this before I setup my sprockets I would have set it all up with silent drive chain. From experience, this stuff is about the same noise as a belt, but handles very high speeds and power, and it's uber compact and strong.
Version 2.0 will feature silent drive chain. And possibily 4 of CNCguys's motors all ganged together using silent chain
Sweet!
Here is silent chain in very small pitch:
http://www.ramseychain.com/prod_sc_pt_316.asp
This would be wicked for making beefy double reduction first stages. They sell pulleys in all sizes too!
And the regular full strength stuff would be ideal for final drive connections:
http://www.ramseychain.com/prod_sc_pt_rpv.asp
I wish I would have thought about this before I setup my sprockets
I would have set it all up with silent drive chain. From experience, this stuff is about the same noise as a belt, but handles very high speeds and power, and it's uber compact and strong.Version 2.0 will feature silent drive chain. And possibily 4 of CNCguys's motors all ganged together using silent chain
liveforphysics
100 TW
I'm running 8T sprockets (a bit better than 7t at least), but that's interesting stuff. I may luck out in my build by using 2 small drive sprockets with a short length of chain between them. Hopefully all the non-constant velocity chain motion occurs between the two sprockets. Much like a driveline with U-joints clocked correctly to buck and boost velocity at the intput and output for smooth quiet operation dispite using a joint with non-constant velocity. But... I didn't pay any attention to this while setting up the sprocket spread, so I just as likely may have boosted the effect rather than bucking it, but hey! Maybe I got lucky and canceled some of it :Hopeing:
:Hopeing:
liveforphysics
100 TW
That's a great idea Miles. Currently though, I'm just going to give it a spin AS-IS, and see how bad it feels in practice. If it applies more torque than I can get the front wheel to stay down for, I could always step up sprocket size a bit. I think I have mechanical clearence for perhaps 12t, which would reduce the effect by a signifigant amount. The next multi-motor chain drive setup I do, I will be certian to calculate a distance which self-cancels this effect. I'm really not the sort of guy who is bothered by a little NHV, but I do like the novelty of being as silent as possible. I'm thinking silent-chain will definately be employeed in my next creation. Along with something like 4x the power minimum
I'm thinking about trying for the NEDRA 24-48v motorcycle world record. I'm pretty confident it will beat 21s 1/4mile as it sits right now, but it will be fun to see how fast I could get it. Using a bicycle rather than a motorcycle is an obvious huge advantage in weight, and I can always just keep adding RC motors for more power.
Hmm... Just had a visualization of custom brackets holding 3-4 of these motors on a common shaft with a special bracket to prevent each stator from turning... Hmm....
But first, I need to get version 1.0 operational and in testing before starting on 2.0.
Best Wishes,
-Luke
I'm thinking about trying for the NEDRA 24-48v motorcycle world record. I'm pretty confident it will beat 21s 1/4mile as it sits right now, but it will be fun to see how fast I could get it. Using a bicycle rather than a motorcycle is an obvious huge advantage in weight, and I can always just keep adding RC motors for more power.
Hmm... Just had a visualization of custom brackets holding 3-4 of these motors on a common shaft with a special bracket to prevent each stator from turning... Hmm....
But first, I need to get version 1.0 operational and in testing before starting on 2.0.
Best Wishes,
-Luke
liveforphysics
100 TW
I'm hopefully going to get the mechanical side fully completed later today.
Any photo requests of parts of the bike I may have missed in my last set of bloody photos?
Any photo requests of parts of the bike I may have missed in my last set of bloody photos?
liveforphysics
100 TW
I assume you mean front and back shots of me right?
Here is a nice back shot. This was a few days after I wheelied over backwards on myself at about 50mph. Thank God I was riding on grass at the time.
Here is a fair front shot of me at work.
Here is a nice back shot. This was a few days after I wheelied over backwards on myself at about 50mph. Thank God I was riding on grass at the time.
Here is a fair front shot of me at work.
liveforphysics
100 TW
It's kinda like Mr Burns power plant. We do have 16 x 3MW generators on hand at this datacenter.
I do datacenter power and cooling engineering.
I did a little test a few days ago that burned 12,000gal of diesel. All unscrubbed and uncatilized. It's really pretty disgusting how much pollution datacenters cause, but fortunately my job involves finding ways to improve efficiency to save energy and avoid pollution. When I can make an innovation that saves just a percent on power, it makes a massive impact on helping to lessen the environmental foootprint.
Later today I will get some front and back shots of the bike for you.
I do datacenter power and cooling engineering.
I did a little test a few days ago that burned 12,000gal of diesel. All unscrubbed and uncatilized. It's really pretty disgusting how much pollution datacenters cause, but fortunately my job involves finding ways to improve efficiency to save energy and avoid pollution. When I can make an innovation that saves just a percent on power, it makes a massive impact on helping to lessen the environmental foootprint.
Later today I will get some front and back shots of the bike for you.
nice one dude, it's looking like your bike will be the first of the "new breed"
Weird we work in the same enviroment, im an implementation engineer so i install, patch, configure network gear and servers, so you must have been testing the generators for emergency power then? lol we have probs with our supplies occasionally, recently lost all power to the centre even though we have 2 different substations providing
so you should have no probs in charging at work then?
surprised you got a pic of it, mines sooo security concious it's unreal.
Cheers,
D
Weird we work in the same enviroment, im an implementation engineer so i install, patch, configure network gear and servers, so you must have been testing the generators for emergency power then? lol we have probs with our supplies occasionally, recently lost all power to the centre even though we have 2 different substations providing
so you should have no probs in charging at work then?
surprised you got a pic of it, mines sooo security concious it's unreal.
Cheers,
D
AussieJester
1 TW
liveforphysics said:
Yeah..itz coz you aint anal about ICE motors and their noise like 99% of the tree hugging frock wearing peeps here..you like most REAL men LOVE the smell of fuel being burnt in ridiculous amounts for maximum enjoyment dont change Luke YOU is normal
. :: lights up a container of fuel just to piss the huggers off:: ...thank god for nutters like you and meth and MR R that keep raisin the bar ...NOW in all seriousness Get some freakin Methanol in that KTM biatch and show meez some rear wheel action kk thx bai p.s Yeah Miles bike freakin rocks very special "proper Job" simply OUTSTANDING..the bar is being raised Mister Miles..
be some serious shit when Miles 'upgrades' i thinkz..
KiM
ATM Drunk Gangsta
methods
1 GW
Miles said:
Thanks for the link Miles
I have been trying to understand this for my build
-methods
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi Luke,
And thank god that link is broken
liveforphysics said:I assume you mean front and back shots of me right?
Here is a nice back shot. This was a few days after I wheelied over backwards on myself at about 50mph. Thank God I was riding on grass at the time.
And thank god that link is broken
liveforphysics
100 TW
I think somebody broke that link of my backside
I did 2 runs test fitting all the parts and making spacers for things to get perfect alignment and bearing load etc. Got all the parts to fit together like a glove, and everything spinning perfectly free. This is a very low friction drivetrain. With the rotors off the motors to eliminate the cogging drag, this setup spins so freely, it doesn't feel much different than just a normal bicycle chain/sprocket setup.
Things were going great. I was very happy.
I mixed up a batch of artic silver epoxy, and added a drip of loc-tite to all my screws and a drop on each bearing/shaft connection. I began final assembly, and things couldn't have been going better. Both motors were locked on, and I began to press the rotors of the motors into place. Then "TINK", and the shaft freely slides forward... I first thought the rotor slid on, but then I saw my sprocket poking out 3", and saw the empty snap ring groove on the shaft....
RAWRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!
That's the sound I make when I'm less than pleased.
So, I rapidly started to disassemble everything again, wiping off loc-tite from every screw, and removing the thermal epoxys with acetone and a rag. When I get to the snap ring area, I find that the inside edge in a few places has mushed over. Yes, just mushed over, like it was made of silly putty. I have never seen a snap-ring do this before. I put it in my snap ring pliars, and opened it up a bit. Did it spring back? No... It stays sprung. I can crush it back into shape just as easily. I was able to twist it like a pretzel with my fingers.
This was the only mechanical part from the original motors that I didn't replace. Now I know not to trust ANYTHING from these motors. These snap rings are made from anealed mild steel, that seems to have the strength of softened copper.
It was 10:00pm, and no where is open to buy REAL snap-rings, so I spent the last hour wiping all the epoxy and loc-tite clean from things before it hardens. I work 12-16hr shifts for the next few days, so this is going to set-back my completion time by a few days. I'm pretty frustrated. I'm going to hit that snapring with my .50cal desert eagle. It might take me a full clip just to hit the twisted dime sized thing, but it's going down.
I did 2 runs test fitting all the parts and making spacers for things to get perfect alignment and bearing load etc. Got all the parts to fit together like a glove, and everything spinning perfectly free. This is a very low friction drivetrain. With the rotors off the motors to eliminate the cogging drag, this setup spins so freely, it doesn't feel much different than just a normal bicycle chain/sprocket setup.
Things were going great. I was very happy.
I mixed up a batch of artic silver epoxy, and added a drip of loc-tite to all my screws and a drop on each bearing/shaft connection. I began final assembly, and things couldn't have been going better. Both motors were locked on, and I began to press the rotors of the motors into place. Then "TINK", and the shaft freely slides forward... I first thought the rotor slid on, but then I saw my sprocket poking out 3", and saw the empty snap ring groove on the shaft....
RAWRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!
That's the sound I make when I'm less than pleased.
So, I rapidly started to disassemble everything again, wiping off loc-tite from every screw, and removing the thermal epoxys with acetone and a rag. When I get to the snap ring area, I find that the inside edge in a few places has mushed over. Yes, just mushed over, like it was made of silly putty. I have never seen a snap-ring do this before. I put it in my snap ring pliars, and opened it up a bit. Did it spring back? No... It stays sprung. I can crush it back into shape just as easily. I was able to twist it like a pretzel with my fingers.
This was the only mechanical part from the original motors that I didn't replace. Now I know not to trust ANYTHING from these motors. These snap rings are made from anealed mild steel, that seems to have the strength of softened copper.
It was 10:00pm, and no where is open to buy REAL snap-rings, so I spent the last hour wiping all the epoxy and loc-tite clean from things before it hardens. I work 12-16hr shifts for the next few days, so this is going to set-back my completion time by a few days. I'm pretty frustrated. I'm going to hit that snapring with my .50cal desert eagle. It might take me a full clip just to hit the twisted dime sized thing, but it's going down.
RemoteContact
10 mW
Also, in the combat world bots tend to easily dislodge the magnets in the motors because the manufacturer usually skimps on epoxy. Any decent bit of shock on these motors and the magnets will likely dislodge. It happened so often that now it's common practice to re-epoxy them in as soon as the box arives on the doorstep. YMMV though of course.
Yay china motors!
Yay china motors!
liveforphysics
100 TW
All ready re-epoxied the magnets long ago. I also put a drop of high-temp epoxy in the center of each set of the copper fill to ensure the windings don't decide to wiggle out into the rotor magnets.
In this motor, each magnet sits in a neat little machined recess, so it's nice that they have more mechanical support than many of the china motors.
So far, in these motors, the bearings are crap, the shaft is crap steel, and the snap-ring is fashioned from modeling clay. By the time you spend $200 to upgrade these pieces on the $130 motor, you are double wishing that CNCguy would hurry up and release his uber-motors that are all high quality with massively oversize bearings.
I also put a drop of high-temp epoxy in the center of each set of the copper fill to ensure the windings don't decide to wiggle out into the rotor magnets.In this motor, each magnet sits in a neat little machined recess, so it's nice that they have more mechanical support than many of the china motors.
So far, in these motors, the bearings are crap, the shaft is crap steel, and the snap-ring is fashioned from modeling clay. By the time you spend $200 to upgrade these pieces on the $130 motor, you are double wishing that CNCguy would hurry up and release his uber-motors that are all high quality with massively oversize bearings.
liveforphysics
100 TW
I came in 2hrs late to work today to finish up the mechanical side of the electric bike.
The drivetrain system is all finished!!!
It's not going to win any beauty pagents, but it's not going to break either. It's damn strong. Beefy is a good word to use when talking about this setup.
I road it around with pedal power for a few minutes. Pedaling is for suckers. I can't wait to get home from work and knock out the wireing setup so I can take this baby for a spin under it's own power.
The drivetrain system is all finished!!!
It's not going to win any beauty pagents, but it's not going to break either. It's damn strong. Beefy is a good word to use when talking about this setup.
I road it around with pedal power for a few minutes. Pedaling is for suckers. I can't wait to get home from work and knock out the wireing setup so I can take this baby for a spin under it's own power.
voicecoils
1 MW
liveforphysics said:
OUCH, did the test last 3hr and 45min by any chance?
Are their no pollution controls for stationary backup power? Interesting fact to note if that's the case.
voicecoils
1 MW
liveforphysics said:
Well done! Good to see you've got the right priorities :wink: The lure of powered projects is always strong
I know you mentioned owning a light road bike at some point, I've been spoilt by the way they ride. Hard to come back to less efficient (pedaling, rider position) bikes after. That's where ebikes come into their own