Long distance candidates - Gasoline? Propane?

[swbluto]

Hello. I've been thinking about a long distance trip of, say, 3000 miles. I want to go 30 mph and travel at least 10 hours a day and at that rate, it should be possible to cover the trip in 10 days.

Doing that with simply additional batteries would require approximately 150 miles worth of batteries. I figure I could probably handle a 2 hour recharge time at a rest stop or something. However, 150 miles of batteries requires about another 120 miles worth of batteries and at 30 wh/mi., that suggests about 3600 watt-hours would be needed. At 50 cents per watt-hour, that's $1800 and a whole lot of weight!(More emphasis on the dollar amount)

So, it's looking like a fuel source is particularly attractive. What kind of engine would be best for long distance? I've mentioned the possibility for a 50cc engine on the motored bicycle boards but the only response I got was a "All it takes is one cop and you're out of luck in the middle of nowhere". Are gasoline bikes really that unpopular? So, I thought maybe propane would be permissible. If anyone asked what the tank was for, I could probably say it's for the grill in the trailer (Which would probably be there.). Also, I think propane is relatively quiet and troopers flying down the highway probably wouldn't notice? I don't know. I could always switch to quiet electric power if needed.

I was thinking about maybe one of those 1-hp 25cc propane LEHR engine, though a 2+ hp 49cc model would probably be more ideal. However, I haven't been able to find propane engines in the 2-4 hp area. I've found a measly 1 hp and then a larger 13 hp and above. Maybe a 2-3 hp gasoline engine could be converted to propane? Anyone have experience with conversions to know if it's doable?

 

[johnrobholmes]

Four stroke 50cc all the way. Efficient, quiet, and will do exactly what you need for cheap on initial investment.

Cops are only a problem in some areas. Research the state laws first. Use electric and pedals where the gas would be a problem, or avoid the area. I can get from Missouri to Georgia in 50cc legal states.


Or if you really want to do it right for an everywhere driver, license it as a custom build motorcycle. Every state would have to honor your plates.

 

[swbluto]

Or if you really want to do it right for an everywhere driver, license it as a custom build motorcycle. Every state would have to honor your plates.

Are motorcycles allowed to travel on highway shoulders?

Also, it sounds like one would have to start with a titled frame or endure a difficult licensing process... hmmm? Any titled bicycle frames out there? I'd really like to keep the bicycle qualities, so I could detach and go full electric in sensitive areas.

 

[jsplifer]

What a conundrum,

Gas, diesel, propane... hydrocarbon? Methanol fuel cell? Ugh and cops and regulation, heh.

Not to be a party pooper, go through the motions to register this hybrid. EDIT, yikes, umm something along the lines of energy research? somebody knows your traveling with a propane powered bike? Maybe not "register" but... document? lol

I can see it going a lot of different ways. One is a cat and mouse with the local. The other is, the, "safety first" you know, do you let everybody strap hydrogen tanks to their bikes? Please think about that for a second. Better energy density, hmm? Start strapping propane tanks to a moving vehicle cruising through the commercial district at 30 mph...

I would say gas is where it's at, amazing substance that petrol. Propane. Fleets use it, might be cheap in the future, seems a bit bulky an apparatus to be carting around though. On a bike? Imagine if your caught in your ruse, and the funny story you would have to tell.

Unless you have access to some kind of thin film deployable laundry rack style solar collector or telescoping mobile wind turbine, I think for long distance... and I hate... I HATE to say it. A small generator... but then this is converting energy to a medium to convert and convert.

So for long distance candidates I would recommend one conversion of energy. All gas. Ditch the conversions.

What a great question. Not only does it pertain to bikes, but for all future transportation. I'm trying to think of an abundant alternative available in your travels, the overhead to accommodate this alternative in equipment, the legalities, the hazards, and so on. You can be practical, or not.

 

[Papa]

Cops are only a problem in some areas. Research the state laws first. Use electric and pedals where the gas would be a problem, or avoid the area.

Not sure about this, John. You may be right, but if your rig is home-state legal and you produce evidence of your residency in said state, such as a driver's license, aren't other states obligated to 'let-you-slide'? As an example; some states issue only one license plate, while others issue and require 2. But citing an out of state resident for having only one plate in a 2 plate state is bogus by my thinking. That said, if your rig was verifiably legal in your home state, and you're just a visitor "passin' through", then you shouldn't have any 'legal' issues.... maybe?

 

[Papa]

swbluto,

There was thread here on ES some months back that discussed mini LPG setups. And somewhere (on my other hard drive) I have the drawings for fabbing a small propane carb. Since you are feeding the engine vapor instead of liquid, you can easily convert an existing gas carb, then all you need is a 'demand' type regulator and a couple of camp stove bottles. Because propane is lower in BTU, you'll lose a little horsepower. But if you can raise the compression and advance the timing a smiggen, you can get it back.

 

[John in CR]

Make the ICE part a generator, and the cops can't have a problem with that part of the bike. It's not illegal to carry an ICE powered generator, at least not yet. Then you've got middle of nowhere camping power and battery charging too. If you can do the electric portion of the genny using a duplicate of your bike motor, then that also gives you a spare motor for the road. Sure that route costs a chunk of efficiency, but to me the flexibility it gives you would far outweigh the detriment. Charging while you ride would be an incredible range extender.

If you're pulling a trailer anyway, think about the possibility of adding solar cells to the mix. Make your own lightweight panel(s) to double as the trailer top. You can get the raw cells on Ebay for under 50 cents a watt now. Harold and I split 1kw of 6x6 brand new 16% efficiency cells, and I can't wait to put them to use. At that price, before construction materials you're looking at about 1/5 the cost of the cheapest batteries on an average sunny day, and these are good for 20 years. A 6"x6" cell is just over .5v and 8amp peak, and they can be put virtually edge to edge, so you do the math on what you need, though I'd cut that peak current in half for a conservative and more realistic output in good sun.

 

[dogman dan]

It's a dilemma,, The best small generators out there is the honda 1000 watt. Trouble is the price. But cheaper ones are out there in small sizes at harbor freight. But they weigh a ton.

I really can't see how you'd travel 30 mph safely carrying either one. Is 30 mph safe enough towing a heavy trailer? Sounds sketchy to me for any of the two wheeled ones. That extra 100 pounds of generator may prevent 30 mph anyway.

Carrying enough battery to ride 100 miles a day at slower speeds is easy, and charging in slightly over 2 hours is possible with multiple 5 amp chargers and 10 ah batteries. It could be done with as small a pack as 20 ah if plugs are there. But to do 300 miles a day for 10 days doesn't sound like something I'd be strong enough to do. It's really an order of magnitude harder to do than touring at 15-20 mph.

The only easy solution is a real motorcycle, and in summer, even one as big as a 4 stroke 250 would have a hard time not melting down along the way. You'd have to stop to cool off almost as much as you would to charge an ebike.

I believe the EV Global electric bike frames have a vin number though, if you want something that could be registered.

Most states have laws against riding on interstate highway on bicycles. Out here in the west, they may look the other way in areas in the middle of nowhere where there is no other road.

 

[johnrobholmes]

You wouldn't be able to ride it on interstate unless it got above 45mph. There are plenty back highways that you could ride on however.


As far as the state to state legality, just passing through isn't good enough for an unlicensed vehicle. For carrying guns, licensed vehicles, and plenty of other things it can be done.


Getting a custom VIN will require DOT wheels and tires, very good brakes, full turn signal and light kit, and maybe some other requirements that your state may have (where are you?). Take it down to the sheriffs office in most cases, provide receipts for all parts bought, and if it passes they will stamp or weld on the VIN plate. Then you have get a state inspection and pass, insurance, then plates.

 

[swbluto]

For sure, I'd research the routes to see which ones would be legal. I've seen some bicycles riding the shoulder on the local interstate, so I thought it was permissible, but it may be different elsewhere. It seems the legality varies from state to state and often includes language like "bicycles are allowed on the highway If there isn't an route more suitable available for bicycles".

Anyways, for this, I probably wouldn't be riding a regular bicycle. I'd be riding something with recumbent seating so it should be relatively comfortable for long distance riding (And if it isn't, I sure would make it comfortable).

Those 1000 watt honda generators look really nice, like the one at http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail&section=P2GG&modelname=EU1000I&modelid=EU1000IAN . 29 pounds and a sound level of less than 60 db (About the level of an ordinary conversation), too bad it just costs $1000. But, hey, that's still better $1800, and paying who knows what in associated travel costs taking an extra 25 or more so days to travel by bicycling semi-assisted at 15-20 mph for, maybe, 125 miles a day.

I was wondering about taking a honda gx50 engine and then making ones own generator from that. It seems like it should be possible with a 3-lb. RC motor. The thing that I don't get is that the waveform form the motor will be 3-phase, so that'd need to be converted to DC somehow. Maybe rectified with a bridge rectifier(At.. 20 amps?) and filtered using caps, I'm guessing. Oh wait, here's a rectifier circuit. Looks simple.

Here's one at http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-ENGINE-Motor-Model-GX50-2-5-Hp-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem518695b510QQitemZ350150309136QQptZMotorsQ5fATVQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories, it's $564 dollars though at this place (The generator looks attractive at that price because it could also power your cell phone charger and whatever AC device, though I'd probably just tap a local power output for that.). I don't know if they can be found cheaper elsewhere because I haven't been able to find them elsewhere.



I also don't know how difficult it is to repair a gas engine if it were to "need repairs". Are typical repairs pretty simple and quick, given you know what you're doing? Or are there not-too-rare problems that pretty much require engine replacement? I'd hate to be stranded in the middle of nowhere with short range available, although I'd probably just bike to the nearest locale with a bus line service and bus it back if that happened.

 

[swbluto]

It's a dilemma,, The best small generators out there is the honda 1000 watt. Trouble is the price. But cheaper ones are out there in small sizes at harbor freight. But they weigh a ton.

I really can't see how you'd travel 30 mph safely carrying either one. Is 30 mph safe enough towing a heavy trailer? Sounds sketchy to me for any of the two wheeled ones. That extra 100 pounds of generator may prevent 30 mph anyway.

With the trailer being an extra 20 pounds, the genset being 30 and paraphenalia being maybe 10, it seems like the trailer might be 60 pounds. I don't know how "safe" that'd be, but the thing about the highway is that maneuverability shouldn't be that big of concern. Now what kind of trailer would be ideal is another question. I've seen 2-wheeled side-by-side trailers that are kind of wide and I'm not sure how well that would do if one wheel of the trailer was constantly hitting rumble strips. Then there are the long skinny ones....

I'm thinking a 2-wheeled streamlined trailer with a bucket in the middle would probably be ideal. The contents should be secured, though.

 

[John in CR]

Not that kind of generator. All you need is a tiny weed eater 4 stroke (4 for durability and more quiet), attach a small outrunner, and a little 6fet controller with regen. Voila battery charger specifically tuned for your battery pack, making your bike what I believe is called a combination serial/parallel hybrid considering pedal power. Add in solar panels too, and it would be the ultimate quad.

Tune that motor to run on alcohol, build a portable still, fishing gear, get a spare engine, a couple of spare controllers and a girl to bring along, and you're set for a 2012 end of the world scenario as long as you have a weapon and ammo to stop anyone else from just taking your rig and girl away from you.

Sounds like a great trip, though I'd recommend backing way off of the 10 hours a day of riding. Visit places instead of trudging through to make the trip more of a fun experience than a long grind. It's the kind of thing almost impossible to later once job and responsibilities kick in. The 10 day ride could be done any time, and by then batteries will be cheaper allowing a faster trip. Dogman's right 30mph with a trailer is a bit much on a bike, especially once you get off of perfect road.

John

 

[vanilla ice]

Gasoine is so compact and AVAILABLE everywhere. I think its the way to go. Propane might work for commuting or anything else.. but touring I think gas is the way to go.

The little weed eater four stroke motors are amazing. My bro has one and it is sooo smooth and quiet.

 

[swbluto]

Weedeater engines sound interesting, but I would have some concerns about it. I'd be concerned about reliability at operating at its peak (I'd imagine the 29cc motors might put out a horsepower or so, 750 watts, so I'd imagine 500 watts might be extractable after rectification.) and operating continuously for long durations. Dogman made mention of engine cooling needed for 250cc engines, and I'd imagine a weed-eater engine's compactness might especially need it.

However, I think I could possibly sustain 25ish mph with 700 watts or so (With a recumbent repositioning and streamlining with fairings), so I'd just need to extract 200 watts from the batteries capacity and so 1000 watt-hours should last for 5 hours. At 25 mph, that's 125 miles before I sit and recharge for 2 hours.

Or, I could just simply use 500 watts and go maybe, 20 mph.

Let's see.. 125 miles for 5 hours discharging or 2 hours waiting. Or 140 miles at 20 mph for that same 7 hours. Slower seems to enable longer distance coverage.

Or, I could bring along a 1000 watt charger and charge witihn an hour at a public outlet. That would mean 125 miles for 6 hours to do that, or 120 miles at 20 mph in 6 hours.

1000 watt chargers are expensive, though.

If I could get 1000 usable watts from a 49cc motor, I'd be set. I can't seem to find many 49cc 4-stroke weed-eater motors, though. I kind of wonder if I could bring along multiple weed-eater engines and use them in parallel?

I'd imagine most of this could be put on a long tail which would void the concerns about trailer handling at 30 mph. But, gee, unless I put everything on the top of the back of the long-tail, the cross-sectional area would increase which would increase the power consumption. The same would be true of a typical trailer.

The honda GX31 sounds like an interesting possibility. Here's a power chart of one.

It looks most fuel efficient at 6000 rpm, which is about 1.1 kw. I'd imagine a 75% conversion efficiency, so that's about 825 extractable watts. That's pretty nice. Honda GX31 seem to have a repute for reliability, so I'd be less concerned about it in continuous duty.

 

[johnrobholmes]

My 50cc honda 4 stroke gets me to 45mph on flat roads. It does have gears to get up to speed, but they do have plenty of power. A nice 50cc would be just right with the electric to help get up to speed. Even the GX31 would be great if you don't want more than 25 or 30mph.

 

[REdiculous]

I like the idea of using the same motor for the gen as you use on the bike..that'd be slick.

If you used commodity parts you might be able to get a new engine or motor shipped overnight if something happens..something to think about or look for perhaps. Or maybe ship the engine home and head back early if something happens to it and you're up for it. At a decent speed there'd be at least some airflow so maybe excessive cooling isn't required for moderate power...I know I've used an 8yr old 2 stroke weed whacker near full-tilt for several hours at a time in the summer over here (100° F)..so, yeah.

Oh, personally, I think a single wheel trailer is the way to go if you can. Pedaling mine around feels like the bike weighs an extra 50lbs. Every 2-wheel trailer I've pulled felt like an extra 20lbs with nothing on it. Maybe they tend to sway side to side or something?..I dunno, but the difference is night and day, imo.

The flat-plate and cargo area may be the same either way (depends on load some too imo) but you can always fudge it if you wanna play favorites. A 2-wheel trailer could easily be 4'x5', say, so you could potentially carry a love seat or something. I think my cargo area is about 18"x24"x18" (width, length, height) if I imagine it being a 3d rectangle, not counting cargo on the upper deck (bedroll, cloths, snacks and radio..for instance).

In my case I've got a bunch of giant push-related bits that occupy the lower deck but if I switched it all out for a 48v 20ah ping (either no motor or hub/RC) there would be plenty of room for the essential "heavy stuff" I'd need for a comfy trip...if the gen was no bigger than a basketball that would certainly help since it could be mounted near the wheel and out of the way of other cargo too.

I better stop myself there so I don't ramble too much..main point; single wheel trailer if you can, it's awesome.

 

[swbluto]

Okay, so I found the name of the trailer that you seem to be referring to. A bob trailler! http://www.amazon.com/BOB-Yak-Trailer-In-Black/dp/B000RH7GIU

They look pretty nice.

I was looking at the graphs and was wondering if those are the graphs of the engine at "full throttle", because I was wondering what would happen if you throttled it to the point where the engine was going 6000 rpm but you weren't actually using the electric motor. Presumably it'd be recharging the batteries, but once those were filled... ??? Would the motor actually be putting out 1.1 kW or would it be putting out whatever power required to turn the gen-motor?(Maybe 100 watts or so) I also kind of wonder about gas consumption at "partial throttle" or no load, as in above - does it take the same amount of gas to go 6000 rpm no matter the load, or does that depend on the load (Like if I lifted the wheel and throttled to 6000 rpm, would it actually be consuming as much gas)? I also kind of wonder if these pull-starts could be fitted with electric ignition? Well, at least they should be able to be killed with ease when needed.

Also, going down the highway, it'd be kind of a weird situation if a cop stopped you. If it were a non-hub which would be extremely helpful for steep hills (efficiency wouldn't die as it would for a hub), then you'd have to explain the electric motor I'm sure. And then you'd have to explain that gas smell. And, yeah, I'm just a little paranoid of how that would turn out. ("That's just a small regen motor to help charge my batteries to power my headlights at night. That gas smell? It's just a generator in the trailer that I haul around to power the radio.")

Also, on another note, I was watching gx35 and gx50 youtube videos and those things are annoying and loud, but I guess they were "quiet" compared to the other chinese contraptions. I know the generator that assumably uses the gx50 engine was described as "super quiet" (59 dB), so it seems like it should be possible to quiet it somehow. How, I don't know exactly.

 

[dogman dan]

Nashbar has had their bob trailer on sale lately.

I still like the idea of 3 48v 10 ah batteries for a road trip. Two hour charge on 5 amp chargers. About 50 miles, charge, 50 miles charge, etc.

But $$$$$$$$$ is the problem as always. With a bob trailer, a small harbor freight generator and two 5 amp chargers, you could ride a long time before you had to stop for an hour.

Of course, on a summertime ride like that, heating up a hubmotor would be an issue, unless you kept it to 500 watts or so. Perfect job for those 6x10 motors, 20 mph forever on 1000 watts with less heating than a 9x7.

 

[johnrobholmes]

My ideal tribred bike would have the motor and engine coupled on a jackshaft, with the pedals freewheeling to the same shaft. Regen and wall charging is possible, and the jackshaft allows for all inputs to be geared properly. The pedals do not play a large role in my wishlist, except in emergency and low speed use. If the pedals were more important you could run dual chains to the rear hub instead.

The question then becomes how to power the rig. Plug in power is cheapest. Gas power is abundant and dense. Regenerated power is for when you cant reach a plug and want that electric ready for action. It seems that regen would be the most expensive way to extract power.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Avoid 2-strokes for this, you won't regret it. How much time do you have before you must go? also are you handy with basic electrical and mechanical components? By that I mean do you need to buy a ready-made solution that is reliable, or can you fab up some components and follow instructions to create something?

There is a loss for every conversion you put the energy source through, so your best miles per gallon of gasoline (or propane) would be directly driving a wheel of the bike. That however, would legally make it a motorized bicycle, and I leave it up to you if the small amount of added efficiency is worth the potential legal hassles.

(a pedal-only bicycle can ride at 30-mph, but if I strap on an electric motor I risk a citation if I exceed 20-mph??)

A pure series-hybrid is less effient than a parallel-hybrid or direct-drive engine, Series is a generator burning gasoline on the trailer, and the electricity is wired to the bikes hub-motor. This is legal every where, and also its legal to use untaxed off-road fuel in a series hybrid.

The engine and gen of a series-hybrid generator can be sized so that your bike runs just on the batteries until they are at the low end of the state-of-charge (SOC) and when the generator is started, the output can drive the bike and also charge the batteries.

If you want the smallest and lightest gen that will provide the target watts, the best site is to scroll the archives at otherpower.com. A small Honda car alternator can be altered to provide any voltage from 12V up to 120V by hacking an external voltage regulator. Cheap and easy to do. Staton-inc has decent prices on just the engine, Subaru and Honda 33cc four-strokes (also larger cc's available)

Permanent magnet motors can be found in many sizes once you start looking. They are the easiest to convert into a generator. Large tape-drives and large copy machines that are scrapped because they are old and obsolete. "Ghurd" is the otherpower.com PMM expert. Sometimes found cheap at motor auction sites and Ebay.

http://www.qsl.net/ns8o/Induction_Generator.html
http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/Induction1.asp
http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_wind_alternators.html

 

[swbluto]

No definite plans. I add up the $$$ and realize it's too expensive. But I can still dream and plan. Actually, I don't doubt that I could fund it if I wanted to, but I'm not too eager to let go of my money that quickly.

Actually, I could probably make the lightweight generator for $600 or so. $350 for the engine, $120 for the RC motor, $20 for power shottkies, $10 for capacitors and around a hundred for whatever else. The gasoline cost would be negligible. At 75 mpg, I'd imagine a 3000 mile trip would cost $120 in gas.

The bob trailer would cost around $250.

The recumbent conversion would cost around $400.

That puts the total dollar amount at...

$600+$400+$250+$120 = $1370.

Yeah, it's just a bit expensive. But, the alternative is real bicycle touring which would cost at least that much in food, lodging and whatever time related costs associated with 100 mile days.

Now let's get back to reality. Maybe let's scrap the recumbent conversion. Let's go with a smaller $150 engine that could used to create a 600-watt generator with a $60 motor (Although, I don't know of an RC motor of that price that I could actually rewind because the cheap hobbycity motors are "varnished" which makes it nearly impossible to rewind.). The total generator would probably cost around $300, although who knows about the reliability of a gx35 at those operating conditions. Let's go with a cheaper nashbar trailer for $200 or so. Or maybe an old mountain rear rack at $120 dollars, although the bike I have in mind doesn't seem to have "rear brake bosses" as it's disc brake designed.

That puts the total cost at

$450 + $200 + $120 = $770

That sounds more feasible, though I wouldn't know how long I could sit in a regular bicycle seat at 25 mph.

 

[REdiculous]

Good call, I was talking about a bob trailer. Mine's not quite the same since I built it, but yeah.

Oh, I'm using a 20x1 3/8" tire/wheel which you might be able to get away with as well, though it might not fit the budget or a random bob trailer. That could be increasing the difference that I've noticed...yaknow...heads up, I'm biased.

Sounds like you've given it some real thought..I hope whatever you decide to do works out!

 

[swbluto]

Wow, you built your trailer? I remember my last attempt at making my own bike rack used steel strips and screws. Its rigidity was LOLable. But, hey, at least the cargo support area was huge. It seems commercial products tend towards the tiny side (To minimize material costs, I'm assuming). I'm thinking it'd be nice if I could build my own trailer, but I have doubts it'd "track" well at higher speeds like the bob trailers do. Also, I'm not so sure about the rigidity, the lightness of it and all that important stuff. But, you know, $300 for a piece of metal that attaches to your bike with a wheel on the back seems a bit... rich. But then again, if I made it myself, I'd imagine I'd be looking at least twice the weight of the commercial products (Since aluminum tubing fabrication is beyond me).

Anyways, I was looking at NorthernTool and it seems they've been the best source for honda engines so far (They're affordable, appear brand new, come with a warranty and apparently from the factory.). I thought the price on the 50cc model was good compared to other places online(Especially ebay - something like $564 if I'm close to remembering correctly) and it came with a 2-year warranty.

But then I looked one product over in the "related products" area and I saw a 120cc 3.5 hp model that runs at less than 4000 RPM(The 50cc runs upto 6000-8000 rpm for max power) that comes with a 3 year warranty designed for commercial use for $10 more. I'm guessing that would probably be more dependable for continuous 2 hp use... The downside is that it weighs 29 pounds as opposed to 12 pounds for the 50cc model, and the dimensions are 12x12x13, as opposed to 8x10x13 although the size difference doesn't seem enormous. I'm guessing the 50cc model would be more fuel efficient, though, however the difference between 30 gallons and 40 gallons probably would not be that noticeable.

I'm almost convinced the 120cc model would be more reliable and quieter. I don't how that would affect possible legal risks if it were in a self-made genset. Also, it could potentially "charge" the batteries faster for extended hill climbing instead of the "go, stop, recharge, go, stop,recharge" method I'm guessing that I'd use for big hills and mountains. It might even be quieter with the low RPMs, but I don't know. It appears a very closely related engine, the gx100, is used in the 2000 watt "super quiet" honda generator that's rated at 59 db at 2000 watts load or 53 db at 500 watt load (Quieter than a normal conversation at 5 feet).

Anyways, for time frame, I'm thinking probably next summer. So, it's a dream that may come true. It depends on future circumstances, which are somewhat unknown. To a large part, it'll depend on how feasible I think it is which may depend on time commitments. (I may or may not be able to take time off as 2-weeks vacation is a bit of a stretch.)

 

[REdiculous]

yeah, I built my trailer from scrap so I could afford the e-bits (I've spent about $300 so far)...

I can't really doing anything w/ aluminum either because my shop only has a few random wood tools, an old grinder and a wire-feed welder. If I need to cut something then bolt cutters is about the only option. I've got like 16, 12mm sockets and no driver for 'em - for other sizes it's even worse..my shop sucks. :lol:

Instead of aluminum, some wood can work. My trailer is mostly steel but there is an aluminum part (razor front-end) and a 2"x4". If I removed the electric bits then I wouldn't notice it back there at all..except it'd bounce a lot.

$300 really is pretty expensive for a trailer (even though that seems "normal") which is why I built mine. A couple random tubes from an old desk, a wheel, a 2x4, a couple brackets and bolts..figure a hitch somehow..done. You should've seen the first trailer I made though.."very bad" is an understatement. :lol:

 

[liveforphysics]

What a conundrum,

Gas, diesel, propane... hydrocarbon? Methanol fuel cell? Ugh and cops and regulation, heh.

Not to be a party pooper, go through the motions to register this hybrid. EDIT, yikes, umm something along the lines of energy research? somebody knows your traveling with a propane powered bike? Maybe not "register" but... document? lol

I can see it going a lot of different ways. One is a cat and mouse with the local. The other is, the, "safety first" you know, do you let everybody strap hydrogen tanks to their bikes? Please think about that for a second. Better energy density, hmm? Start strapping propane tanks to a moving vehicle cruising through the commercial district at 30 mph...

I would say gas is where it's at, amazing substance that petrol. Propane. Fleets use it, might be cheap in the future, seems a bit bulky an apparatus to be carting around though. On a bike? Imagine if your caught in your ruse, and the funny story you would have to tell.

Unless you have access to some kind of thin film deployable laundry rack style solar collector or telescoping mobile wind turbine, I think for long distance... and I hate... I HATE to say it. A small generator... but then this is converting energy to a medium to convert and convert.

So for long distance candidates I would recommend one conversion of energy. All gas. Ditch the conversions.

What a great question. Not only does it pertain to bikes, but for all future transportation. I'm trying to think of an abundant alternative available in your travels, the overhead to accommodate this alternative in equipment, the legalities, the hazards, and so on. You can be practical, or not.

You are a smart man. This whole post is packed with wisdom, and I agree with it fully.