Look what the Mailman dragged in !!!

[TylerDurden]

How do you lithium users store your packs at night ? any special precaution ? I have a fireplace that could be useful, but from the video's i've seen, if a pack this size goes Boom, well.. you get the picture.

I keep mine in a safe. They're expensive!

LiMn are fairly stable. No worries here, IMO.


Beer... Breakfast of Champions.

 

[xyster]

How do you lithium users store your packs at night ? any special precaution ? I have a fireplace that could be useful, but from the video's i've seen, if a pack this size goes Boom, well.. you get the picture.

I keep mine in wood boxes on the bike in my garage... 9 months with no problems yet. I do keep a fire extinguisher nearby just in case. But short of the very rare mis-manufactured li-ion cell, li-ion fires happen almost exclusively due to gross overcharge, such as when an auto-sensing RC charger misreads the number of cells in series, or somebody stupidly wires a 12v sla in parallel with the 4v lithium cell. Anyway, my chargers physically can't overcharge since they're all single-cell, 4.2 volt chargers.

As noted above, Lithium-manganese is far more stable than lithium-cobalt. Last I read over at RCgroups.com, there have been a few failed manganese cells, but nothing even close to a fire-setting heat event.

I wouldn't worry much about it...

 

[Ypedal]

very nice, looking forward to your lipo review to see how much you can get out of that 20ah lipo before it cuts on lv,
knoxie

Oh man, my ass hurts..

Longest ride i've taken on an e-bike without stopping.. 51.5km

Used 11.55ah ,
36.3v at rest,
34.5v under 20amp load at the end of this ride.


20ah x 36v = 720 wh x 2 = 1.44 kw/h ! at 30lbs. I really need to strap these to the Norco.. i wish i had not put so much work into the nimh fitting.. i think i'm going to just buy a 2nd Chaos and have 2 ...

 

[gwsaltspring]

So are these available in Canada?

Greg

 

[Ypedal]

Not in canada, that i know of at least.

Rigth now they are custom ordered. That Can be a good thing, if you are not in a rush but have a specific design idea, the shape/form factor can be adjusted to an extent.

 

[miro13car]

I very really doubt they are e- moli cells at 20 Ah of them.
Price is to low for that
Falcon web site doesn't even say they are manganese. Just Lipo.
MC

 

[xyster]

Falcon web site doesn't even say they are manganese. Just Lipo.

The Forsen site briefly characterizes them as "LiMn".

http://www.forsenusa.com/batteries.html

 

[Ypedal]

Just finished sucking 17.5ah from one of the packs and 4 x 200w lightbulbs.. 3.5amp for quite a few hours ! removed from discharge at 35.4v !!!

Yes, they are LiMn for sure ..

 

[Instant Karma]

I noticed the Forsen site has the LifePo batteries, you know the ones that are supposed to be safe and last for years, but you have to call them for a quote. I guess that means they cost like hell.

 

[xyster]

I noticed the Forsen site has the LifePo batteries, you know the ones that are supposed to be safe and last for years,

This describes ypedal's lithium-manganese cells too. The Milwaukee V28 packs employing the same chemistry are warranted for 5 years or 2000 charges. Only time will tell which chemistry really holds up better; probably either is sufficiently safe to forego a BMS, except perhaps for cell balancing. From the specs, the main differences between LiFePO4 and LiMn seem to be energy density and power density. The LiFePO4s hold less energy, but can deliver it at twice the rate of LiMn.

 

[oatnet]

ypedal any updates on your Limn pack?

-JD

 

[Ypedal]

So far so good !

I will have a complete review within a few weeks, i just don't want to praise them on arrival and spread the word until i know what i have, gremlins take time to show their face sometimes ! lol..

But in all honesty, they work very well, i need to replace the RCA jacks with regular andersons for the charge port, i hate RCA's.. they belong in home audio/video.. not on ebikes.

15 lbs of Lithium, per pack, deliver way more than my 12 lbs of Nimh, that's for sure !!!!

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

i hate RCA's.. they belong in home audio/video.. not on ebikes.

I can't believe they were ever even considered for high power DC application, much less after all this time they're still being pressed into service.
Signal level is all they were designed to handle.

 

[AliasMrJones]

The website now says:

Lithium-Mn - Durable, BMS regulated,
enviro. friendly, can be recharged anytime,
800+ life cycles, 62% lighter than lead acid
cheapest of all over the long run.
each pack comes with charger
3X's Ah max discharge
48 Volt 2 24V-20Ah packs.....$1250

So it sounds like putting 2 packs in series is OK even with the BMS?

 

[Ypedal]

The website now says:



So it sounds like putting 2 packs in series is OK even with the BMS?

Yes, i specifically asked for this, my 2 x 36v packs will be conected in series for 72v, confirmed it will be just fine !

 

[gwsaltspring]

Hey Gaston;

I am confused. Do you have the 72V (2 X 36V) pack now? Or just the 48V (2 X 24V) pack or possibly both you luck dog ?

Greg

PS Are duty/brokerage fees a big deal bringing these into Canada?

 

[Ypedal]

I currently have 2 x 36v 20ah LiMn packs

And have paid for and waiting for delivery of a 48v 25ah LiFePo4 pack.. ! ( should arrive in July )



It was a bit of an impulse buy, but i had done as much reading as i could find, and asked enough questions to make a mad-man, mad..

Came down to " How long do i want to wait to save how much money ? "

Heck, a 386 with 8mb and a hard drive used to cost 3000 $.. you now get a 2gz pc with a gig of ram for 500 $.

I'm having fun... NOW.

Edit : Duties etc... depends on the shipper, avoid UPS as a general rule, they charge duties and brokerage ( minimum 20$ or something like that ) on everything they ship across the border.

regular USPS Parcell post is the best as they don't duty/brokerage everything, it's a 50/50 deal..

could be anywhere from 20 to 100 $ depending on what you order.

 

[gwsaltspring]

Ah.... Thanks for the clarification.

Just finished reading about your Chaos which cleared up things a bit.

Were the LiFe the impulse buy or the LiMn?

Yes, I know what you mean about the 386 analogy. Are you really that old :lol:

I do have a tendency to go to analysis parlysis on things like this when so many options exist.

Cheers Greg

 

[xyster]

Came down to " How long do i want to wait to save how much money ? "

Heck, a 386 with 8mb and a hard drive used to cost 3000 $.. you now get a 2gz pc with a gig of ram for 500 $.

I'm having fun... NOW.

Meanwhile....
The house has two more mortgages and one more shed.

The family, except the dog, goes unfed.

The bills spill over the kitchen table.

The phone rings off the hook.

Ypedal's thread-bare kids

Run around nude.

Yep, these batteries drained everything.

Everything except ypedal's mood.