Meanwell SE-350-24

[docnjoj]

OK you experts here is a question. I'm using the above power supply to run a Hyperion charger. In charging my 12S A123 20ah battery @25 volts I can only get 3 amps out. That is only 75 watts. What gives? The Meanwell is cranked as high as it will go without shutting down. Did I get the wrong power supply?
Any advice will be welcomed.
Thanks
otherDoc

 

[999zip999]

How high is your 1420 set for (amps) ?

 

[docnjoj]

The Hyperion is set for 6.5 amps charge but it never goes above 3 amps. Strange.
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

OK then! Can I parallel a computer power supply of 24 volts to increase the amp output of the Hyperion?
otherDoc

 

[amigafan2003]

What's the voltage range of the hyperion? Some chargers throttle down the amps as you approach the voltage limit.

75% input voltage of max allowed is often best.

 

[NeilP]

The Hyperion is set for 6.5 amps charge but it never goes above 3 amps. Strange.
otherDoc

Are you quoting 6.5 amps input or output?

At least with my iCharger, you can also limit the input power..so you could set a 10 amp charge current to the pack, but if the input power is limited, then it will never reach 10 amps on a 10s pack..but will if you connect a 5s pack..because the power draw from the battery is less.
Am guessing input is set too low

 

[NeilP]

In case you don't have it
View attachment EOS_NET3_DUO3_manual.pdf

OK then! Can I parallel a computer power supply of 24 volts to increase the amp output of the Hyperion?
otherDoc

Possible. with two PC psu's in series..suitably modified..if you can get the voltage matched exactly..but load sharing is going to be very hit and miss..not recommended really

 

[docnjoj]

Thanks Neil for the suggestions. I will try first to raise the input V and go from there.
otherDoc

 

[NeilP]

Raise the input voltage??

either I missed something, or you mis understood what I meant.

I think you should go in to the User setup menu of the charger and change the current settings and maybe the wattage so the charger software can allow the charger to take more power from the meanwell.
Since it is a powerful charger, it is set to limit the power it draws..to protect the power supply that is powering it






SO you want to set 24 volt and ..14 amps..maybe a bit less to start with and see how how the Meanwell gets

 

[docnjoj]

Thanks again Neil. I don't believe I ever set those numbers, only the ones of my 12S 19000Ma battery in Memory. I'll play with it and see if it helps
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

Well I did all the entries including voltage at 20 and amps at 10 but it still only seems to get 3 amps out and 41 volts which is still well below even the safety response of 250 watts. After all it is labled 350 and 24 volts. It is a genuine Meanwell so shouldn't it put out as claimed? The Hyperion just seems to need more power in, I believe.
Confused a bit!
otherDoc

 

[NeilP]

After all it is labled 350 and 24 volts. It is a genuine Meanwell so shouldn't it put out as claimed?

Well it will put out more if you let it. As you have set the Hyperion input to 20 volts and 10 amps, then the max it is going to draw is..200 Watts.

Remember the 20 volts is not so much a voltage..as it says in the instructions..just seems to be a way to limit the power

Set it to 24 and 14 amps and try again..that is 350W MAX that the charger will draw from the Meanwell.
it is not the Meanwell limiting the charge here, just the charger settings

Can you jsut confirm what charger you have? is it the 1420?


Do you have PC software for it..maybe you can get more control from the Hyperion control suite..if your charger is compatible

http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/eos/default.htm

 

[mikebikerad]

If it keeps stopping right at 3 amps it is definately the charger limiting not the meanwell. As stated above.

 

[docnjoj]

Thanks guys. After my trike is charged up (it takes a while) I will go over the flowcharts and put a TWM between the Meanwell and the Hyperion 1420 net. I also will put a Killowatt in the wall plug for the Meanwell. Sumptin' has got to be wrong. 3 amps is too low!
otherDoc

 

[NeilP]

so did you put the settings in the Hyperion up to 24v and 14 amps then? And it still only gives 3 amps out?

If the Hyperion is in balance charge mode, that could be another reason it is charging at a low current too

 

[amigafan2003]

Also, how far discharged is your pack? If it's over 80-90% full then it wont charge at a high amp rate as it will be in the CV phase and ramping down the amps.

 

[docnjoj]

Yes I always balance charge for the A123's. I will try the bulk charge to see if it goes higher.
Thanks again Neil for the ideas.
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

Also, how far discharged is your pack? If it's over 80-90% full then it wont charge at a high amp rate as it will be in the CV phase and ramping down the amps.

Usually I pull about 12 amps out on a 20 mile ride. So the packis about 2/3 D/C when it goes on the charger.
otherDoc

 

[NeilP]

well 12 Ah out of 20 should give a full charge current...but hang on..what exactly is you pack?

your sig mentions a Pink pack and an A123 agniusm kit ...new to me...
You do say you are charging an A123 pack..is it a homemade pack? .or a bought one.
If it is a bought one with BMS..then it could well be the pack BMS limiting the charge.

You say you are balance charging.. so I am must assume that you do not have a BMS in the pack, because with a built in BMS you won't be able to balance charge. Form the one thread I found about his packs I see no mention of an included BMS.

Maybe worth testing each cell voltage individually with a BM or Celllog and see if one is really way out..so the charger is trying to balance charge right from the start..therefore limiting the current.


You coudl probably set the Hyperion...for a test ..to a much higer power setting than your meanwell will put out..so set it to 24 volt and 40 amps. Then only run the charger for a minute or less..and see what happens. Stick an ammeter between Meanwell and charger and not the current draw.

just because you set the Hyperion to 40 amps does nto mean it will draw 40 amps..it is just a maximum, it will still only draw what it needs

 

[docnjoj]

Hey Neil
It is an A123 pack I built with agniusms kit and full tab new cells. I have monitored it like a baby with both the Hyperion, a good DVM and Celllogs. They all pretty much agree that the cells are even. Charge and balance to 3.57 Volts each. I will try the really high settings on the Hyperion today, but my gut says that Meanwell is simply not putting out enough current. It's my first experience with this power supply. Before I used an18 volt 24 amp hour job, which I may try again to see what the amp output is.
Thanks again for the good ideas. Oh yeah no BMS on this pack. We know our distances and routes and checked at first with a TWM.
otherDoc

 

[NeilP]

OK, So I cant say that it is NOT the Meanwell..but I still doubt it.

Your last supply was lower voltage but higher current..and would have output'ed 432 watts..supplied by current rather than voltage.


As it says in the Hyperion instructions..the voltage setting on the Hyperion ..is somehow a Wattage input limit. I am assuming it works in conjunction with the current limit.

So if you have the Hyperion set at 20 volts and 10 amps, the max the Hyperion is going to draw from the Meanwell is 200 Watts, so at 41 volts, the maximum you are going to ever see is not even 5 amps...OK 3 amp is still lower, and I would not have thought the Charger consumes that much power in the conversion..but I am not an expert, and I do not have one of these chargers..but I can read the manual.

If you are setting the charger to take only 200 Watts, you could connect it to a meanwell capable of 125 amps at 24 volts (3kW)..but your Hyperion would still be limiting to 200 Watts as that is what you have it set to.

Until you set the Hyperion to the power levels your PSU is capable of producing then you wont get a full charge current.

From the figures you have given, I would not expect to see much more than about 7 or 8 amps to the pack anyway

 

[docnjoj]

I would sure take 7-8 amps in a heartbeat, Neil. I have a Killawatt on the wall outlet to determine the amps and watts the Meanwell is drawing. I'll bet it is only about 150-175 watts. I will try to adjust the Hyperion up again but............ I think I need more power in the PSU. Maybe parallel the Meanwell with a computer power supply?
otherDoc
I just set the Hyperion to 40 volts and 12 amps. Nada! It still charges at 3 amps. In the immortal words of a famous Scottish engineer, "I need more power, Captain"!

 

[NeilP]

Ok, so next thing is to elimanate issues.

Is it a standard Meanwell or have you done a current mod to it? I have a NES 350-48 as a bulk charger, and it sits there bulk charging with constant 5 or 6 amps without getting warm.
Your 24 volt model should happily spit out 14 or more amps. Un modded as a bulk charger it will probably put out, maybe ??? 16 18 amps maybe more, not sure

Can you try it as a bulk charger on just 6 cells ? Or do you maybe have another 6s pack to hand ?

Try a bulk charge even just for long enough to monitor the current output

With regard to the Killawatt meter and its readings. Not sure that they work correctly with ghe sort of load a Meanwell takes. They give weird readings, way too low, all to do with PFC's /inductive/ resistive loads. I have a similar device that I bought go work out how much power my twin S350 charger was using.
It worked correctly on kettles, toaster, haidryer etc etc, giving the reading in kW one would expect from the relevant device. When a Meanwell was plugged in, totally wrong readings... Way to low, it was showing. 80 to 100 watts draw when it should have been nearer 750 watt


So despite everything you have tried so far still not convinced it is the Meanwell because if the Hyperion was trying to take the full amount of power for the charge, then the Meanwell would give it till it let the smoke out. Remember they are supposedly rated to deliver 150% of their stated power for short bursts, which is why we have to do the current limiting mods on them.
If the charger was charging as hard as it should, then the Meanwell should supply it, till it got really hot and either thermal limiting kicked in and it shut down, or it let the smoke out

When I first started with an i Charger 3010b I did not have it limiting enough and it would draw so much current from tye Meanwell that it would pull Meanwell voltage down so hard that iCharger would bleep a warning and shut down due to low input voltage.

If you can find a pair of lead acid car batteries try running the Hyperion from them, they for sure wont be current limited and you could draw the full 40 amps from them no hassle

 

[docnjoj]

Yes the Meanwell is unmodified, I really don't want to use car batteries as a power source. I'll keep looking. Next step is to open the Meanwell and see. It did put out 7 amps charging a 6S part of the battery.
otherDoc

 

[NeilP]

Did not mean to use car batteries as a permanent solution, only to see what charge current you get out of the Hyperion when you have an unlimited current source as car batteries would be.

Since you have tried a 6s pack and the Meanwell only put out 7 amps then that is odd. How low in voltage was the 6s pack? 20 volts? More? Less. 7 amps does seem low, that is only 170watt or so.

Have you checked exact output voltage of Meanwell maybe you need to increase it a bit?