GGoodrum
1 MW
methods said:
Yipes!
I guess there is room in the market for a 160V version. 
Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller
- Thread starter methods
- Start date
Yipes!
I guess there is room in the market for a 160V version. 
mwkeefer
1 MW
Methods,
New PCBs? That works for me.. Actually that would be about the best way to solve the layout issues and could go a long way towards solving any heating or dissappation issues.
160v is 1000$ - forget that, maybe 120v and then we just need a really long extension cord for Doc's drag runs.
-Mike
New PCBs? That works for me.. Actually that would be about the best way to solve the layout issues and could go a long way towards solving any heating or dissappation issues.
160v is 1000$ - forget that, maybe 120v and then we just need a really long extension cord for Doc's drag runs.
-Mike
dnmun
1 PW
notes about the capacitance thing. the inductace is a function of di/dt so the less current flow changes and the longer the time it takes to change reduces the back emf generated in the wire, so the voltage spike is reduced too.
the inductance relationship to length of a cylindrical conductor is exponential and is 2 orders of magnitude higher within 2 cm as i recall. shoulda saved that graph.
that is why the stand them on on the pcb and keep the legs short. it is not the resistance, it is the empedance from the inductance that is the reason.
the inductance relationship to length of a cylindrical conductor is exponential and is 2 orders of magnitude higher within 2 cm as i recall. shoulda saved that graph.
that is why the stand them on on the pcb and keep the legs short. it is not the resistance, it is the empedance from the inductance that is the reason.
mwkeefer
1 MW
imho: correct however, the faster we power the FETs the lower the power dissappation will be becuase FETs only dissipate alot of heat when they are in the middle between fully on and fully off. Not that what I am saying contradicts your point, just elaborates on the inverse.dnmun said:
You say this with such certainty that I wont even venture to disagree (it sounds logical and reasonable though I can't remember the actual variables)dnmun said:
Just proofread this one for you and made it I hope a bit clearer = )_dnmun said:
But can you say that last bit, three times really fast?? - jk
Honestly I am confused just a tad, so inductance along a length of cylindrical conductor is 2 orders higher within 2cm and grows exponentially with longer leads (cylindrical conductors) the impedance would grow by a factor of 2 to the 2nd power for each 2cmd of length the leads exposed? I just want to be sure I understand the concept correctly as you explained it.
In the interest of full disclosure... when I'm building controllers I just keep every path as short as possible (HV/HC) as a general rule of thumb.. shorter length = less chance of interference or stray rf being picked up as noise in the circuit but I never actually sat down and thought why they actually do mount the parts as close as possible... it makes sense.
One last question - not to be a jerk or a smartass but aren't most FETs and high voltage / current devices packaged with rectangular leads? Again I've never given much thought to it and I'm too lazy and sore right now (20mi today on a 5AH pack) to get up and walk over to my desk to pick up a FET or a controller = )_ (Sorry... at least I'm honest)
Thanks,
-Mike
methods
1 GW
"Honestly I am confused just a tad, so inductance along a length of cylindrical conductor is 2 orders higher within 2cm and grows exponentially with longer leads (cylindrical conductors) the impedance would grow by a factor of 2 to the 2nd power for each 2cmd of length the leads exposed? I just want to be sure I understand the concept correctly as you explained it."
Obviously that cant be true so the whole story is not there. Must be some sort of miscommunication.
Dnmun will need to elaborate on that point.
I had stated before Dnmun posted that the issue with long leads was inductance (and not resistance) but I am quite sure that it does not grow exponentially. I dont see any reason why it would grow in a manner other than linearly.
As far as hoping that running shorting main capacitor leads will to faster switching times and and lower heat - that is not true.
These capacitors are on the High Voltage rail - i.e. the Voltage that is being switched - not switching voltage
To decrease the switching time it would be the 14V (or 5V) switching circuits that would need to be tended to.
To take it a step further - the switching circuits in these controllers is actually pretty good....
At this point the majority of the heat in the system is probably coming more from the bypass diodes than the rdson or lingering time in the linear region.
-methods
Obviously that cant be true so the whole story is not there. Must be some sort of miscommunication.
Dnmun will need to elaborate on that point.
I had stated before Dnmun posted that the issue with long leads was inductance (and not resistance) but I am quite sure that it does not grow exponentially. I dont see any reason why it would grow in a manner other than linearly.
As far as hoping that running shorting main capacitor leads will to faster switching times and and lower heat - that is not true.
These capacitors are on the High Voltage rail - i.e. the Voltage that is being switched - not switching voltage
To decrease the switching time it would be the 14V (or 5V) switching circuits that would need to be tended to.
To take it a step further - the switching circuits in these controllers is actually pretty good....
At this point the majority of the heat in the system is probably coming more from the bypass diodes than the rdson or lingering time in the linear region.
-methods
steveo
100 kW
isn't there a 24fet controller out there ... anywhere???? put some irfb 4115's in it, 8 per phase!!!
should be able to get minimum 100amps @ 150v = 15,000 watts..
now put that on a x5306 in a 20" wheel..
you will have outstanding torque all the way to 100km/h
so ..
where is that 24 fet board?
is there any to-247 boards also avaliable anywhere .. i can't remember the fet # i used in one i diy'd myself ..
but i got 133v out of it @ 50amps... and it was FAASSSSTTTTT
-steveo
should be able to get minimum 100amps @ 150v = 15,000 watts..
now put that on a x5306 in a 20" wheel..
you will have outstanding torque all the way to 100km/h
so ..
where is that 24 fet board?
is there any to-247 boards also avaliable anywhere .. i can't remember the fet # i used in one i diy'd myself ..
but i got 133v out of it @ 50amps... and it was FAASSSSTTTTT
-steveo
steveo
100 kW
isn't there a 24fet controller out there ... anywhere???? put some irfb 4115's in it, 8 per phase!!!
should be able to get minimum 100amps @ 150v = 15,000 watts..
now put that on a x5306 in a 20" wheel..
you will have outstanding torque all the way to 100km/h
so ..
where is that 24 fet board?
is there any to-247 boards also avaliable anywhere .. irfb4568 fets in that bad boy; and we are talking 150v also!!
-steveo
should be able to get minimum 100amps @ 150v = 15,000 watts..
now put that on a x5306 in a 20" wheel..
you will have outstanding torque all the way to 100km/h
so ..
where is that 24 fet board?
is there any to-247 boards also avaliable anywhere .. irfb4568 fets in that bad boy; and we are talking 150v also!!
-steveo
methods
1 GW
A 24fet board would be a bit asinine...
What is needed is a 6fet or 12fet board that uses fets in a different package size.
These TO-220 fets have tiny little leads and not much heat sink.
You want some fets that need to be bolted down
-methods
What is needed is a 6fet or 12fet board that uses fets in a different package size.
These TO-220 fets have tiny little leads and not much heat sink.
You want some fets that need to be bolted down
-methods
methods
1 GW
btw:
I have modified and tested this new setup. Blew my damn 5305 doing it to.... :?
I got to test everything except the regen. I was able to test regen on the bench.
I have started the production modifications.
I am doing them one at a time for starters while I work out new and better fixes
I have only one done
BUT - I found quite a few new shortcuts. I need to update the HOW TO area with these mods.
I got my latest shipment of 20 CA's in so I will be offering a combo deal.
It wont be a "killer deal" because I cant sell the CA's for less than $125 but I can knock a little off of the price of the controller.
If you are looking to buy both anyway - it will save you shipping + lunch for you and your lady.
-methods
I have modified and tested this new setup. Blew my damn 5305 doing it to.... :?
I got to test everything except the regen. I was able to test regen on the bench.
I have started the production modifications.
I am doing them one at a time for starters while I work out new and better fixes
I have only one done
BUT - I found quite a few new shortcuts. I need to update the HOW TO area with these mods.
I got my latest shipment of 20 CA's in so I will be offering a combo deal.
It wont be a "killer deal" because I cant sell the CA's for less than $125 but I can knock a little off of the price of the controller.
If you are looking to buy both anyway - it will save you shipping + lunch for you and your lady.
-methods
steveo
100 kW
methods said:A 24fet board would be a bit asinine...
What is needed is a 6fet or 12fet board that uses fets in a different package size.
These TO-220 fets have tiny little leads and not much heat sink.
You want some fets that need to be bolted down
-methods
I agree!!!
we need to find to-247 package style controller we can install our own mosfets on!!!
remember when i did this guy... she is still alive
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8728&hilit=4568&start=45
methods
1 GW
I dont understand why no one has done it with a 12 fet or 18 fet controller.
Seems that we could use the same circuit board and just solder in 1 giant fet instead of 2 or 3 smaller fets.
They would be a little taller so we would need a new heatsink and a new housing.
If I did not have 500,000 irons in the fire I would try it.
Currently I have so many projects that they are literally backed up down the hallway.... Piles of "new stuff" that I ordered on the internet to do this or that.
-methods
Seems that we could use the same circuit board and just solder in 1 giant fet instead of 2 or 3 smaller fets.
They would be a little taller so we would need a new heatsink and a new housing.
If I did not have 500,000 irons in the fire I would try it.
Currently I have so many projects that they are literally backed up down the hallway.... Piles of "new stuff" that I ordered on the internet to do this or that.
-methods
dnmun
1 PW
actually if you did something like using the TO-247 parts with a separate heatsink for the highside FETs and the lowside drivers, then you could actually solder the drains/tabs right on the heatsink and have it supported and electrically isolated and then attach the Vbat+ and ground to each one and have the phase wires built up on the board.
then you would not have the problem of building up the supply trraces on the board if the current could be carried in the copper heatsink/bussbar.
maybe have cooling loops built into the bussbar and plastic tubing out to the heat exchanger somewhere.
gotta find energy for the pump though but you could put the pump on a thermal switch too.
jeremy had talked about something similar almost a year ago.
then you would not have the problem of building up the supply trraces on the board if the current could be carried in the copper heatsink/bussbar.
maybe have cooling loops built into the bussbar and plastic tubing out to the heat exchanger somewhere.
gotta find energy for the pump though but you could put the pump on a thermal switch too.
jeremy had talked about something similar almost a year ago.
methods
1 GW
methods
1 GW
I added some screen shots of the Software.
-methods
-methods
methods
1 GW
The first 5 controllers are built, tested, calibrated, and shipping out now.
FOR SALE THREAD
-methods
methods
1 GW
I added a bunch of information on how to program the controllers.
I also included example settings that you can import.
All of the software, drivers, etc are there.
HOW TO PROGRAM THE METHODS 100V 100A PROGRAMMABLE REGEN CONTROLLER
This stuff assumes that you have been following the infineon thing to some degree.
If you are a total nOOb I can help you out.
-methods
I also included example settings that you can import.
All of the software, drivers, etc are there.
HOW TO PROGRAM THE METHODS 100V 100A PROGRAMMABLE REGEN CONTROLLER
This stuff assumes that you have been following the infineon thing to some degree.
If you are a total nOOb I can help you out.
-methods
in a future version it would be nice to have a mac os x version of the software or the software written in web java or flash so it is universal or the programming is done by 3 switches.
1. a group of dip switches to set the various things like the lvc, torque ramp,speed ramp, etc.
2. 2 push button switches like on the older programable scanners (remember where you had to push 1's and 0's to program some of the first scanners).
or the programming is done by a text file that is saved to fat 32 formatted usb drive.
the text file may look like.
lvc 38.5, torque ramp 5, speed ramp 7 and so on.
over all your controller looks very good.
1. a group of dip switches to set the various things like the lvc, torque ramp,speed ramp, etc.
2. 2 push button switches like on the older programable scanners (remember where you had to push 1's and 0's to program some of the first scanners).
or the programming is done by a text file that is saved to fat 32 formatted usb drive.
the text file may look like.
lvc 38.5, torque ramp 5, speed ramp 7 and so on.
over all your controller looks very good.
methods
1 GW
We are lucky just to have the software in English. . .
-methods
-methods
methods
1 GW
Added notes to the first page about the 3 speed switch.
That thing is AWESOME because it is really a THROTTLE governor, not a SPEED governor which means you basically now have variable current limit on your bike!
It can be switched in real time while you ride too - unlike the reverse for which you must stop first.
-methods
That thing is AWESOME because it is really a THROTTLE governor, not a SPEED governor which means you basically now have variable current limit on your bike!
It can be switched in real time while you ride too - unlike the reverse for which you must stop first.
-methods
I'll say this is a must for the guys who built stupid bikes like me I crashed a hand full of times, my bike is so fast it flips you off when you are not ready for it and sometimes when you are, and I have had others crash as well and that is hard on people and equipment. I love all the power but when riding by the cops or wanting to travel a longer distance this is a must!methods said:
methods
1 GW
DUDE- I once set my Kelly up with the current maxed out, the throttle response set to MAX, and then I switched it from "Speed" control to "Torque" control.
The throttle had all of about 10 degrees of rotation before the bike would explode out from under me.
It was so violent that it was no fun to ride what so ever.
and..... of course I ended up rounding my drops out nice and wide
This 3 speed switch is a winner!
I put it on my main bike tonight and cruised around
here were my settings:
110% - 45mph good acceleration - bouncing off the phase current limit for the first few seconds like turbo lag
75% - 34mph smooth soft acceleration
50% - 20mph crawling off the line
The 50% setting was nice for when I you are riding the bike with stuff in your arms - like free stuff you find on the side of the road
The 75% setting worked well for spirited riding - did not quite have the snap but it was still fun. That is the setting I would let people try the bike with.
The 110% - watch your ass. Bump the throttle on the wall while walking the bike through the house and you could end up with rubber on the ceiling.
-methods
The throttle had all of about 10 degrees of rotation before the bike would explode out from under me.
It was so violent that it was no fun to ride what so ever.
and..... of course I ended up rounding my drops out nice and wide
This 3 speed switch is a winner!
I put it on my main bike tonight and cruised around
here were my settings:
110% - 45mph good acceleration - bouncing off the phase current limit for the first few seconds like turbo lag
75% - 34mph smooth soft acceleration
50% - 20mph crawling off the line
The 50% setting was nice for when I you are riding the bike with stuff in your arms - like free stuff you find on the side of the road
The 75% setting worked well for spirited riding - did not quite have the snap but it was still fun. That is the setting I would let people try the bike with.
The 110% - watch your ass. Bump the throttle on the wall while walking the bike through the house and you could end up with rubber on the ceiling.
-methods
Why do I have a fealing you have rubber marks on your ceiling?methods said:DUDE- I once set my Kelly up with the current maxed out, the throttle response set to MAX, and then I switched it from "Speed" control to "Torque" control.
The throttle had all of about 10 degrees of rotation before the bike would explode out from under me.
It was so violent that it was no fun to ride what so ever.
and..... of course I ended up rounding my drops out nice and wide
The 50% setting was nice for when I you are riding the bike with stuff in your arms - like free stuff you find on the side of the road
The 75% setting worked well for spirited riding - did not quite have the snap but it was still fun. That is the setting I would let people try the bike with.
The 110% - watch your ass. Bump the throttle on the wall while walking the bike through the house and you could end up with rubber on the ceiling.
-methods
I also welded up my dropouts with some extra steal last night because I could tell if that little axle can lift my fat ass up of the ground it wil spin out of there very soon.
John in CR
100 TW
You guys need key switches with this kind of power, and remember never turn it on till you are on the bike, and always turn it off before you get off. Even with key switches and only moderate power, I've had plenty of near catastrophes. I'll need to be extra carefully with my MethyTroller bikes.
John
John
methods
1 GW
Arlo1 said:
The last time my mother in law stayed with us I was desperate to get out of the house - I was heading to the front door with my "insane torque mode" bike.
The door handle is on the left side form the inside, so I let go of the left grip (now holding only the throttle) I reached forward, could not quite reach, leaned over a little father, then BAM! I cracked the throttle and the bike exploded out from under me. Ran right up the front door before I could let go.
RE-> Welding up drops
Wise choice. Every single one of my bike has welded up drops. I usually grind out a 10mm wrench to make it deeper then weld it to the bike. On my aluminum bikes I made 1/4" thick bolt on steel plates that encapsulate the axle. My Kona Stinky actually has not aluminum drops left - or rather they are 14mm wide
My bolt-on torque arms are the only thing holding the axle.-methods
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