Milwaukee v28 vs Makita 18v packs vs Sanyo sub-c NiMH

[fitek]

Hi folks,

since DeWalt prices are sky high, I looked into Makita and Milwaukee lithium packs. They seem to cost about the same per watt-hour. What are the advantages, disadvantages of each?

Also, I see two different types of 18v 3ah Makitas-- 194205-3 and BL1830. What's the difference? the first seems to cost more.

Sanyo Sub-C cells are almost the same price per w-h too. The tool packs look like they'd be easier, but the Sanyos have a pretty good reputation...

Any thoughts?

 

[ort5]

I went with the Milwaukee V28 packs. You can get them here for $80 and free shipping: http://www.toolup.com/Milwaukee/48-11-2830.html

 

[Ypedal]

The makita's are LiMn 4.2v per cell

The DeWalts are LiFePo5 3.2v per cell.. and longer cycle life. !!

:wink:

 

[jondoh]

Hi Ypedal,

The Makita and Milwaukee cells seem to be virtually identical in terms of specification. As I understand it, the Makita packs do not discharge through the BMS-- the BMS is only for charging. If you wanted, you can string as many of these together without worrying about blowing out the BMS. The Milwaukee discharges through the BMS but cannot support above 56 v (two packs in series).

Jonathan (the guy with the BMC S-works and A123 cells) has created an adaptor for the Makita packs for an earlier ride. I've show in my video where to get the connector blocks for the Milwaukee. If you want to run 56 volts, i would go with Milwaukee. If you want to run at a voltage higher than 56 volts, go with Makita.

 

[pwbset]

As I understand it, the Makita packs do not discharge through the BMS-- the BMS is only for charging. If you wanted, you can string as many of these together without worrying about blowing out the BMS.

Damn. Wish I'd learned that before ordering all those Milwaukee packs that are already on the way. :lol:

If 56v isn't enough I'm going to go the lazarus/mlrosier route and bypass the BMS... and the warranty. :|

 

[jondoh]

Damn. Wish I'd learned that before ordering all those Milwaukee packs that are already on the way.

Sorry dude, I just learned this yesterday.

From what I saw of the Makita packs, I still think Milwaukee is better because it does have a LVC. I'm not sure if the LVC is calibrated to work properly with two in series. It seems to be a little late to trip but at least it's there and it does work. Also, the Makita batteries are 18v so you need more packs to get to your target voltage than you do with the Milwaukee. The smaller packs means more space wasted for the battery cases. I think you will be pleased with Milwaukee and your 4011 hub. Let us know how it works.

 

[efreak]

yes thanks for the info jondah

what are your thoughts on a 5304 hub motor with this voltage??

efreak?

 

[jondoh]

I have both a 5303 with 40 amp controller and a 406 with a 20 amp controller. A six pack (snicker) can power the 5303 ok but you need to be careful that the series packs are well matched and not drain them all the way. The 20 amp 406 is easier on batteries but the concerns are the same but because the power requirements are lower for the 20 amp, there is less of a chance of running into these problems.

When I say unmatched, I mean that if you have a series pair and one of the two is weaker than the other, then that weaker pack drains much faster and that series string stops contributing power. A series string is only as strong as the weakest cell. The end result is that the whole pack delivers much less power than it is capable of.

I've been experimenting with 2s5p. I have the six new packs with my new cable connected in parallel to four old packs with my old cable. The old cable has higher resistance than my new one (the one I made in my video) and the 4 packs are not very well matched but it doesn't seem to pose any kind of problem. With 5 parallel strings, each string only needs to output 8 amps which is less than 3C. Full throttle riding for 10 miles seems to drain the batteries by only half and everything is still pretty well balanced at the end of the ride. I am very pleased.