Moped fatality and danger statistics?

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swbluto

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I love hearing all the subjective opinions about how people feel so much safer because they're exposed to less traffic, but it seems obvious to me that higher speeds expose one to greater potential of damage, despite the possibly lessened opportunity for said damage. SO....

I'm trying to find statistics on the mortality rate of mopeds or similar bikes. The only thing I can find that's related is motorcycles and they're obviously not comparable since a large majority of deaths most likely involve speeds greater than 35 mph.

Statistics actually make safety comparisons meaningful.
 
It sure seems hard to find these statistics, as opposed to finding bicycling statistics.

So, it seems I have to make inferences on related data and statistics. In the motorcycle category, it seems speeding accounts for roughly 40% of fatalities. However, those who weren't speeding could still have gone something like 35 mph and above as such was the speed limit, so that's not at all conclusive.

I found some statistics done by iowa for "mopeds and all terrain vehicles". The small numbers problem applies here so it is definitely not authoritative, but it appears 3 percent of all crashes were fatal although all fatalities didn't wear a helmet and it might be compounded by the inclusion of "all terrain vehicles". For bicycles, it appears .6% of all crashes were fatal - among the 3 fatalities, 1 was wearing a helmet while the other 2 weren't or was unknown.

For cars, it appears in the US there are on average 6.4 million accidents but 42,000 deaths so the corresponding percentage would be .5%-.6%(taking into account average occupancy of 1.3 people per vehicle) of accidents are fatal.

There needs to be better stats out there. :roll:
 
swbluto,

Do you really need stats? Do you like cars whizzing past at far greater speed? Cyclists may be numb to it, but there's no way it's very safe, and I dislike it greatly. Do you think traveling at 40mph or whatever the minimum speed is on the highway is more dangerous or less dangerous than driving at the same speed as other traffic? It's quite similar in that the kinetic energy of a crash is greatly reduced reducing the risk of fatality, but on a bike it's even worse because you can't own your lane in the same way a car can and you are physically much more exposed to serious injury in any crash involving a vehicle.

I've just seen way too much stupid shit that car drivers do, so there's no way I could ever ride comfortably under the assumption that they won't hit me with me unable to do anything about it. Going with the flow it's squarely on my shoulders to make sure I don't get in an accident.

Crossing paths with fewer cars is just part of the equation, as is the fact that you are on the road for less time given the same distance. For me it's more about how I ride. eg With traffic going the same direction I am, I follow close enough that I've got 2 tons of steel acting like a blocking back for me, but just far enough and off the corner to give me braking room as well as an escape route to the side. In that position, it is necessary to really watch the cross traffic, since it's very likely they will only see the car and not you. If they're coming from the right, I hang at the right corner of the car in front of me to give the best opportunity for them to see me, then as the car in front passes the intersection I change over to the left side of the lane, making it impossible for the crossing car to hit me even if he tried unless he's a dragster or something. I end up moving laterally in my lane quite a lot, which has the added benefit that cars behind generally give me considerably more space, because I'm sure they perceive my behavior as erratic and unpredictable. If some jerk follows too close for my taste then I get all the way over, slow down to let them pass, and speed back up to follow them.

My riding style makes some of them visibly nervous, because I spend a lot of time in their blind spots, but I'm right there in a mirror for the good drivers. I'm sure my "here I am, but I assume you can't see me anyway, and you can't hit me if you tried" approach won't work for everyone, but I feel absolutely safe riding this way. I also like riding that way probably for the same reasons people like trail riding, because I'm actively riding the bike instead of la-tee-da sitting on a moving bike. I can't ride like that at night or with wet roads, which force me into more typical and slower riding, and try to avoid dark or wet conditions because I feel so much less safe. All of my riding is optional, so I'm rarely forced into the more dangerous conditions, but when I do I still feel safer matching traffic flow than if I was getting whizzed by constantly.

There's no I could ever go back to how I was forced to ride on my first e-bike...going on the assumption that I wouldn't get run right over from behind by some idiot on their cell phone or just spilled their coffee or are trying to attend to a baby or are just drunk, or whatever...along with the frequent pass me and then immediately turn right in front of me. Probably just the elimination of those right crosses makes me safer than slower speeds, not to mention that I'm never forced near a parked car, so getting clothes-lined by an opening car door is impossible since I'm never within their reach.

I've never ridden a moped, but my motorcycles were all too heavy to be nimble enough to ride like I do on my bike. I used some of the techniques during crash free days on moto's, but on my ebikes I use cars as a blocking back much more. On a moto I always had the ability to gain safer positions through greater distance afforded by greater acceleration and speed.

Does anyone else ride in the same very active manner? I almost typed aggressive instead of active, but that wouldn't have been accurate, because I really don't ride as nearly as aggressively as I could, just like "zippy" would be more accurate than "fast".

Also of note is the roadways are quite different here, and traffic speeds are inherently slower than the US.

Sorry about being so long winded.

John
 
I trust data far more than opinion or independent reasoning. It's much in the same spirit as "1 test is worth a thousand opinions". And, I'm curious about the road safety of 30 mph ebikes as they have a special place with not being quite bicycles but quite not being motorcycles, and subsequently the lack of relevant statistics. I would've thought mopeds could be a possible statistical source, but it appears they aren't quite that popular.

But, if you want to pursue the independent reasoning route, how many people get run down from behind and from right crosses? Yes, it' large, but it's also less than half. As far as speed goes, that's just about the only few risks it eliminates. That leaves another large percentage of possible causes of accidents, and I can imagine increased speed would only exacerbate the potential for damage in the case of one. Thus, we have at least two possible opposite influences on the fatality rate AND statistics tells a fuller, more complete story.

(Btw, the amount of people I've seen running stop signs across 30+ mph arterials doesn't inspire much confidence in other drivers. And, no, speed doesn't eliminate that risk.)

I found another source at http://www.motorcycle-accidents.com/pages/stats.html: It appears that the moped fatality count is nearly 1% of motorcycles. If I could find how many more people ride motorcycles than mopeds, then I could infer a relative risk.
 
not certain this is on topic but lots of stats & links to more stats.
http://www.bhsi.org/stats.htm
 
swbluto said:
It's much in the same spirit as "1 test is worth a thousand opinions".
Click to expand...
Sinec we is quoting here's one for you..."opinions are like assholes, everyones got one..." Personally
i think theres too many variable's for road accidents to be neatly packaged into a nice little graph,
such is the case with opinions...everyones is different...

KiM
 
I rode a moped for about a year in Toronto. I currently ride a pedal-bike on a similar route.

My observations:

"Data" is hard to analyze when it comes to commutes. Stats are routinely adjusted. That said, pick a route, and begin riding it as CAREFULLY and SLOWLY as you can without disrupting other people's progress. The slower you go and the more you observe, the more you can learn. Every city has a "flow" to it. If I leave 10 mins late from the apartment for my 4.8km commute, it WILL take me 4-5mins longer. Also, though, the sun will be up. Caveat emptor, I guess. Is that how you say it? The point being - stats are going to average out a bunch of stuff for you and really not help.

I got doored by a cab last week, and nearly killed. I will not make the same dumbass moves again. I ride AS traffic, now, not around it. Even in a "bike lane", there are no safety guarantees, despite the laws.

I will say that superior braking and acceleration abilities ARE awesome additions to vehicle safety, if you use them properly.

But I stress that every route is unique, stats meaningless in terms of personal protection advise.

Ride slow, get to know traffic patterns, be alert, ready to brake - be CAREFUL, man, don't get hit. It REALLY HURTS!
 
All I have is subjective opinion, but here it is.

When I rode a moped daily for one year, I constantly got right crossed and left crossed by traffic that thought I was a slow bicycle. It was the most dangerous vehicle I've ever owned. Fast enough to get hurt, slow enough to be sure to get hurt. Had actual contact with the metal on cars several times. That was in 1978, drivers may be more aware of mopeds typical speed now. If they look up from texting.

After that I got a honda CB 125 that was twice as fast, about 60 mph. My problems with people passing me and then right crossing me to turn into a parking lot dissapeared 100%, since they would have to pass me to do that. Left cross remained a problem if they simply didn't see me. But it was less often, since the car that did see you expected you to be hauling ass. I learned how to do a rear tire smoking left turn to avoid the car crossing my path real good.

After that I got a KZ 750, a very safe bike that now had a very dangerous rider. Too fast for me at the time, I could now do 90 and did. Real nice disk brakes made me brave. Can't believe I survived it, but not the bikes fault. At 90 mph on a country lane, the guy turning can't see you yet when he pulls onto the road. I sold that bike fairly quick and live to tell the tale.

Now I ride an ebike, and do about 20 mph when mixing with cars. They sure as hell don't expect you to be going faster, and like said before, a door is bad enough at pedal speed. When the bike lane is empy of traffic, or I'm on a low traffic street without driveways, kids chasing a ball etc, no reason a faster ebike wouldn't be safe. It just depends on the frame, tires, brakes etc.

It's just when you want to go 35 mph down the 25 mph residential street, the crowded bike trail, the road where some fool could door ya etc, that it's safest to go slower. In other words, if it's crowded slow down and act like what people are used to and they will not get in your way as much.

If you need to go fast through crowded streets, looking like a fast motorcycle is much safer than looking like a slow bicycle. In fact you oughta build an E motorcycle, since really fast ebikes are totally street illegal in most places. Going fast when on empty streets is as safe as the rider and the bike, just watch for those cops.
 
Ok, so I was looking for motorcycle ownership and moped ownership rates and didn't make much headwind with google so I estimated ownership by counting how many motorcycles and how many mopeds are being sold on craigslist. :)

It appears 1 moped is offered for every 20 motorcycles, so I would think motorcycles outnumber mopeds 20:1.

So it would appear that motorcycles have about 5 times the fatality rate than mopeds per year. However, motorcycles on craigslist seem to have more far more mileage than mopeds (10,000 average compared to 1000 average) suggesting motorcycles travel much further so, per mile, motorcycles might actually be twice as safe.

That sounds like a bogus inference, though, so I'll scrap it. I would think that the fatality rate would be either be parabolic or non-decreasing, meaning the moped fatality rate would be less than the bicycle and motorcycle fatality rate, or greater than the bicycle fatality rate but less than the motorcycle fatality rate. Since it appears motorcycles account for 5-8% of fatalities while accounting for 2%, it seems like mopeds would have a fatality rate less than that. So, at max, ones "average" lifetime chance of death from moped would be 1/40 at max and 1/320 at a minimum. Ok, so that doesn't help much.

Oh wait... using the 5-8% motorcycle fatality figure, and assuming that motorcycles have about 5 times the fatality rate of mopeds, it appears that mopeds have a fatality rate similar to cars. BUT, people don't use their mopeds nearly as much as people use cars judging from mileage, so the per mile fatality rate seems like it might be 5 times as much as cars (Since motorcycles have a per mile fatality rate ~25 times much as cars, and the fatality rate of mopeds seems to be 5 times less). Since the bicycling fatality rate per mile is nearly 2.5 times that of cars, it seems like mopeds would be nearly twice as dangerous per mile than bicycles. What a concept - more speed, more danger.

Now, if one were to assume "ebikes" were similar to mopeds in terms of performance, then it seems they have nearly twice the fatality rate per mile than bicycles. But supposing one travels less than (10,000-miles-per-average-car/5-times-less-safe) ~= 2000 miles per year on a moped-like ebike, it seems one might be fatality-based safer than a car in a lifetime. Those injuries can suck, though, such as dogman's. However, I believe typical car injuries are no cakewalk either.

That assessment entirely depends on the motorcycle/moped use rate, which I might not have accurately inferred.

Edit: I don't believe my sources are good enough, so I think this post probably contains a lot of garbage.
 
swbluto said:
northernmike said:
Whaaat are you up to man, writing insurance?
Click to expand...

Objectively evaluating the risks of certain lifetime choices.
Click to expand...


You have too much spare time, get away from your PC man, theres a big world out there your missing out on
sitting in front of that screen :mrgreen:

KiM
 
swbluto said:
Ok, so I was looking for motorcycle ownership and moped ownership rates and didn't make much headwind with google so I estimated ownership by counting how many motorcycles and how many mopeds are being sold on craigslist. :)

It appears 1 moped is offered for every 20 motorcycles, so I would think motorcycles outnumber mopeds 20:1.
Click to expand...
Or alternately, 19 of 20 mopeds get destroyed before they can be sold on CL.... :p
 
It's true, many a moped dies a premature death.

Once I have a 'real' (Lithium) battery pack in this, I hope to save more mopeds by offering motor adapters.

Drop your AV7/AV10 gas 2 stroke out, drop in an eTek.

DSC01178.jpg


My objectively evaluated lifestyle choice! :mrgreen:
 
Objectively evaluating the risks of certain lifetime choices.
Click to expand...
nobody ever got Famous like that....... :mrgreen:
(hold my beer...& watch this!)

on topic:
I would think comparisons to bicycle stats would be a greater indicator of the risks involved. (same visual profile & nearly the same sound output) & mostly the same riding habits (I am amazed watching some of the on board video around here)
Most of the death rates are atributide to "collisions" with larger vehicles.
There is such a sharp spike in the graphs at a certain age point,I wonder if its because the % of older guys quit riding....or has Darwin effect left only the more observent/careful rides to be counted.......

back off topic: Ride to live....Live to ride
 
I don't recall there ever being a time in 12 years of riding motorcycles on the street that I've been passed by a car. Not once.

I don't recall a time I've ever made anyone ever have to slow for me, or feel held back by me on a motorcycle.

I've had many times that a burst of acceleration was able to jet me forward and out of the way of cars trying to blindly change lanes onto me, both around town, and on the freeway...

Likewise, many times the monster 8 piston twin huge disk brake setup has saved my ass when somebody cuts me off, pulls out in front of me, turns cross-left in front of me etc.


Something like a normal E-bike, Moped/scooter etc only have the ability to use left or right as potential hazard avoidance paths.

Something like a superbike can stop at arm crushingly fast rates, accelerate on the verge of flipping over at the flick of a wrist, and safely make high "G" turns to avoid danger. It's like getting 4 directions available to avoid potential danger.

That said, of course the biggest factor with any bike is the judgement of the rider rather than the bike itself.

Of my 3 street plated/registered bikes, a crazily over-built GSX-R1000, A KTM-300mxc, and a KTM-200exc, the KTM-200 is by far the most dangerous feeling machine to take out on the road, and it's definately the machine that has the highest rate of close-calls while riding for me.

I personally feel unsafe when dicking around on a scooter. So unstable, slow to stop, terrible cornering limits, and no acceleration. You get on something like a GSXR1000 and you feel so safe and comfortable you can fall asleep buzzing down the freeway at 80-90mph. Thank God for jiggle strips!
 
liveforphysics said:
I don't recall there ever being a time in 12 years of riding motorcycles on the street that I've been passed by a car. Not once.

I don't recall a time I've ever made anyone ever have to slow for me, or feel held back by me on a motorcycle.

I've had many times that a burst of acceleration was able to jet me forward and out of the way of cars trying to blindly change lanes onto me, both around town, and on the freeway...

Likewise, many times the monster 8 piston twin huge disk brake setup has saved my ass when somebody cuts me off, pulls out in front of me, turns cross-left in front of me etc.


Something like a normal E-bike, Moped/scooter etc only have the ability to use left or right as potential hazard avoidance paths.

Something like a superbike can stop at arm crushingly fast rates, accelerate on the verge of flipping over at the flick of a wrist, and safely make high "G" turns to avoid danger. It's like getting 4 directions available to avoid potential danger.

That said, of course the biggest factor with any bike is the judgement of the rider rather than the bike itself.

Of my 3 street plated/registered bikes, a crazily over-built GSX-R1000, A KTM-300mxc, and a KTM-200exc, the KTM-200 is by far the most dangerous feeling machine to take out on the road, and it's definately the machine that has the highest rate of close-calls while riding for me.

I personally feel unsafe when dicking around on a scooter. So unstable, slow to stop, terrible cornering limits, and no acceleration. You get on something like a GSXR1000 and you feel so safe and comfortable you can fall asleep buzzing down the freeway at 80-90mph. Thank God for jiggle strips!
Click to expand...

I'm with you Luke, Of my 3 bikes on the road my Honda St1300, CB700sc and Vespa GT200, the Vespa has gotten me in the most trouble. The thing is really easy to maneuver, and though it stops pretty fast, the thing just begs to be jumped over speedbumps etc... and that thing will do 90mph though the suspension is less than ideal for it... :twisted:

Safety has way more to do with the psychology of the rider regardless of bike. I am not a high vis guy myself, but visibility is huge too..
 
Thud said:
back off topic: Ride to live....Live to ride
Click to expand...
My personal addon to that phrase is "Live thru the ride". :lol:
 
Heh Heh, regarding mopeds lasting long enough to make it to craigslist,,,, My french made 1977 motobecane 49cc moped used to fall apart trying to cross town. I carried a 10 mm wrench religiously to be able to reassemble the parts that fell off, mostly the carburator and muffler. No amount of locktight could keep it on. My ebikes have all lasted 4 times the mileage, and aren't worn out yet.

Regarding motorcycles being safer, you bet if the rider has any sense. But I didn't, I was safe enough on the 125 but once I got the 750 I was danger on wheels. I was young, dumb, full of testosterone, and rode at a high enough level to be even more dangerous. I used to look for crosswalk stripes so I could get a little slide out of em. Loved riding in the rain on mountain passes. Shoulda been on a track, but I was on the street, dangerous as hell for awhile. I sold the bike, took up snow skiing and terrorized the Texans from Lubbock on the slopes for 20 years instead.

Now that I ride an ebike, I spend 80% of the time on bike trails or bike lanes with no cars parked along them. Mabye 19% on residential low traffic streets, and 1% on busy high traffic streets. Safe riding is not so much what I'm on, but where I'm at on it. Get a motorcycle of at least 125 cc's or a legal e motorcycle if you have to keep up with traffic on a 45 mph road. That's a street unsafe for mopeds, ebikes, or pedal bikes.

I have now idea what the statistics are, but I skew them way the hell in my favor by selecting a good route. If one didn't exist, I'd ride my 150 cc scooter all the time instead of a bike.
 
Thud said:
nobody ever got Famous like that....... :mrgreen:
(hold my beer...& watch this!)
Click to expand...

HAHAHA your a believer in the saying:- Bones heal chicks dig scars & glory last forever then Thud? :p

Thud said:
back off topic: Ride to live....Live to ride
Click to expand...

THe aternative is of course:- "Ride hard die fast" :mrgreen:

KiM
 
Well, back to the original topic: Statistics on Moped accidents and risks.
There're lots of mopeds in Europe (because one can drive a moped at 15 with no license and a car only a 18 with license)


This Swedish statistic says:
http://www.ntf.se/konsument/fraga3110.asp?katid=34
The risk of severe injury is 180 times bigger than taking the bus (presumably the other legal alternative for 15 year olds...)
Risk of severe injury has increased the past 4 years.
60% of killed used a helpmet, but of these in 1/2 the cases the helmet fell off at the accident.
The most killed are 15 year and old people. (not sure if that is weighted by usage numbers...)

55% of Swedish mopeds have been modified illegally to go faster (than 45km/h)
20% go faster than 80km/h
In 16% of the cases did the store selling the moped help with the illegal modifications.

In this article an official claims that driving a moped is 30 times more dangerous than a car.
Again they might be comparing immature 15 year olds w. no license to the whole car driving population.
http://www.dn.se/2.738/2.739/snabba-eu-mopeder-bakom-fler-olyckor-1.599677

Here is a diagram over dead vs age. Orange bars are moped deaths. Notice the brutal peak at 15 years, the first year kids are legally allowed to drive). There seems to be a debate in Sweden to raise the age to 16 and have some kind of licence.
86.JPG
 
I managed to survive regularing riding a Yamaha YZF 600R on the street at 15yo with no licence. It only had <100hp and it was kinda a pig though. I never had an actual motorcycle endorsement until this last year. lol :p My dad rode his whole life never having one. lol

I had about as bad of judgement as a boy could have I imagine. I like to think it hasn't improved by much up to present day. :)

The ONLY thing that kept me alive on a motorcycle was the years of riding/racing dirtbikes as a kid every possible chance I got. lol

When you're riding single track through the woods, you never know WTF you're going to find around the next corner. You might turn the corner at speed to find a 3ft tall log right in the middle of your path. You might be blasting down a trail only to find it's been washed out into a cliff. You might think you're going to fly through a puddle onto to find it's got a 4ft deep ditch hidden below the surface. You get wacked with tree branches, clobbered with rocks thrown from tires, and you need to constantly read the terrain for signs of loose material or slippery clay areas etc. Woods riding is like a continous lesson in being aware, and dealing with unexpected riding hazards. The difference is, when you mess up, it's cuts, bruises, maybe broken bones, but not death from getting run over like when you make a mistake on a scooter on the street.

That's sick about the helmets comming off. WTF does anyone wear something other than a full-face helmet??? Why even bother? E-bike, scooter, dirtbike, superbike, or even in my racecars, I've got a full-face on, and properly strapped on. It doesn't matter WTF it is, if you're going to take it in traffic, put a full-face on. All other helmet types are largely useless for wrecks in the street.
 
liveforphysics said:
That's sick about the helmets comming off. WTF does anyone wear something other than a full-face helmet??? Why even bother? E-bike, scooter, dirtbike, superbike, or even in my racecars, I've got a full-face on, and properly strapped on. It doesn't matter WTF it is, if you're going to take it in traffic, put a full-face on. All other helmet types are largely useless for wrecks in the street.
Click to expand...

FFFTW

(full face for the win)
 
I think swbluto's original question was very good. Is there any statistic on the dangers of moped commuting? Apparently finding useful numbers is difficult. Statistics capturing the risks of immature 15 year olds in Sweden don't apply to most of us.

Yet, the moped is probably the best available comparison to the speeds and capabilities of high end ebikes many of us rides.
 
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