Motorcycle class Hub Motor

[Jay64]

80 miles per hour! I got a chance to test this bike for Mark at the US TTXGP this weekend. We got it up to 80 mph on the straight. It was a really fun ride. The hub motor was awesome. Unfortunately, for the speeds I was trying to carry in the corners, the stock Lifan suspension just couldn't cope. When I took it out on the fri session, the suspension was bouncing all over the place. So after the session I took the bike down to the guys at RaceTech and they swapped out the the springs in the forks. That allowed me to carry a lot more speed into the corners. However, that brought out a lot more suspension issues. Bassically what it boiled down to, was that the motor was no where near the weak point in the build. I am really excited to try another round at trying to find the limit for this motor.

 

[Jay64]

Oh yeah, motored by the Zero S on the front straight.

 

[markcycle]

Watching Jay pass the Zero on a straight section was just so cool.
i wanted to add my bike was 100 pounds heavier than the Zero-S

Mark

 

[Jay64]

View attachment bike ride 2.wmv

 

[lifpo4honda]

That looks really impressive!! Wish I could of been there.

How did the motor handle that acceleration? any excessive heating? Is the powerband instant from 0 to 80mph or did you find an area of acceleration to have more torque?

 

[RoughRider]

looks good...

80mph at how many voltage?

the zero is useing the agni 95 right?

 

[markcycle]

looks good...

80mph at how many voltage?

the zero is useing the agni 95 right?

the setup was a 34 cell 40AH thundersky pack so about 100 volts under load

The Zero is using the Perm motor

Mark

 

[markcycle]

That looks really impressive!! Wish I could of been there.

How did the motor handle that acceleration? any excessive heating? Is the powerband instant from 0 to 80mph or did you find an area of acceleration to have more torque?

No heating problems at all The powerband is not instant so to speak but picks up after 5 to 10 MPH then is pretty flat to 50 then tappers off as the motor peaks out in speed.

Mark

 

[dnmun]

congratulations mark. you made an impression. on travis's post on the ohio race thread, i was reading the comments from kraig schultz about your bike and he was totally impressed. expecially about the TOTALLY silent part and how he would build around your hub anytime. talked about the 80mph which i think really made an impression since it was a hub motor. congrats.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=11139&start=15

 

[markcycle]

HI Mark,

Congratulation nice job, is really impressive!

Good day!
Bikeraider

Thanks

We had such a great time at Mid Ohio
Here is a picture of the bike with out its skins
I'm working on a tutorial on how to convert a motorcycle using the 600 series motor.
I have a firm shipping date for my first production order, 8/10/09 and its coming by air (ouch) but I'm eating the air shipping costs.
Then a second shipment by ocean right after.

Mark

 

[johnhead@frontiernet.net]

Thank You Mark for your update. I will be looking forward to the tutorial as I am 200% more "mecanically" inclined than I am "electrically" inclined!
You may also wish to include a "Dual motor schematic", once the single motor schematics are available? I am currently designing around a 96V system.
Regards
John Head
c/o Elegant British Bike Bits

 

[81dieselrodeo]

I can't send messages with the enertrac contact form, it has an overzealous char blocker that prevents use of basic punctuation...

But I wanted to ask a question about tandem motors.

In light of designs such as http://www.rqriley.com/xr3.htm, would it be possible to have 2 hub motors share an axel, and be laced to the same automotive rim?

A torque arm for each side of the swingarm, etc... The current design is a single-side swingarm, but doesn't have to be.

It is my intention to build the vehicle as a serial hybrid which I can convert to batteries/capacitors as those technologies mature and become less costly.

 

[markcycle]

I can't send messages with the enertrac contact form, it has an overzealous char blocker that prevents use of basic punctuation...

But I wanted to ask a question about tandem motors.

In light of designs such as http://www.rqriley.com/xr3.htm, would it be possible to have 2 hub motors share an axel, and be laced to the same automotive rim?

A torque arm for each side of the swingarm, etc... The current design is a single-side swingarm, but doesn't have to be.

It is my intention to build the vehicle as a serial hybrid which I can convert to batteries/capacitors as those technologies mature and become less costly.

You can always send a message to elec.bike@gmail.com or enertrac@gmail.com or send me a PM from Endless-Sphere my understanding is the char blocker is to stop spam.

Now about your question,

The 600 series wheels are not designed for fixed upright rigid designs. They are designed for motorcycles,which have much lower side loading. Your app really requires taper roller bearing as cars wheel bearing have. It is possible to use multiple motors on one axle so long as you run them in current mode.

Mark

 

[pgt400]

Frickin' brilliant! I had quite a bit of 'dreamstorming' of something just like this, but I'm broke and it has remained a dream.

I have an '07 ex250 with 35,000 miles on it (and rising). I no longer commute the long distance that I bought it for.

I'm not so much interested in 70+ mph, as I am in range... 15 years of studying EV tech tells me I'm not going to be happy about that, but LiFePO4 still beats Pb...

Unfortunately, I've taken really good care of this engine... It still runs like new even after doing 10k+ RPM for 3+ hours every day for 2 years... Blow up and give me an excuse already!

Well, if an excuse is what you're looking for, a much better alternative is to sell the engine on Ebay. In the Midwest they have a sprint class that uses EX250's engines (Ninja 250). I got $800 for mine and it sold within 2 hours....they snap them up quick!

 

[markcycle]

I did a video of me doing a 12 mile 22 minute parkway ride. This is a 10 minute (youtube limitation) segment.

[youtube]7Tm7kQi5efc[/youtube]

Mark

 

[johnhead@frontiernet.net]

Somebody's having Wayyyyyy toooo much fun!
I want mine
Great Post Mark

 

[markcycle]

Somebody's having Wayyyyyy toooo much fun!
I want mine
Great Post Mark

As I write yours is at the airport and I should have my first shipment next week

Mark

 

[etard]

So Mark,

everyone is the buzz over this hub, and I am almost giddy. To think of all the batteries we can now stuff into our frames and still be stealth is absolutely the holy Grail for me. Now in the name of frugality I don't wanna spend a ton of money on a fairweather transportation "toy". Ok, so if I go with a 72 volt kelly with regen and then add the delta/wye setup, can I expect speeds over 70 mph? As I understand it, the ratio is 1.73:1 so can this be true? I think this at some point a transmission is necessary to stay safe In traffic. The electonic transmission would seem to be the best as it has no moving parts. Well besides the contactor. I would also like to attach a foot lever to the contactor (?) where the gearshift would be. Maybe you could do Delta down Wye up. I think you would dominate the market if you sold your motor as a kit with plug and play ability interfaced for the three gasser conversions that best suited the motor (125cc frame for dirt, 600cc for street and range, maybe a Rebel 250 for cruiser). All the buyer has to do is buy the bike, rip out the ICE components, install the kit, decide on batteries, sell the scraps. One could be riding In a weekend if all axis aligned. Sorry for the rant, it's prolly not feaseable but I like to think it's logical. Either way, Delta/Wye is your bread n butter, it's a very good reason to buy your motor instead of an Agni. Oh and if you designed the case to be billet aluminum or something to dress it up (I'll take one anodized orange please) I would gladly pay the extra. To hell with stealth I say! These new motors will actually compete against gassers of equal wieght. It's time electric became trick bits, not patchwork technology. Whose with me!!!!??

 

[cobramarty]

Very interesting. So what is all needed for a complete build? Can you list the parts and costs. Wheel hub, controller, charger, batteries, throttle, and any thing else. How much wojuld a complete build cost. I have a '08 ninja 250 available. Thanks.

 

[markcycle]

Very interesting. So what is all needed for a complete build? Can you list the parts and costs. Wheel hub, controller, charger, batteries, throttle, and any thing else. How much wojuld a complete build cost. I have a '08 ninja 250 available. Thanks.

This is in no order just off the top of my head

1) MHM602/603 complete wheel
2) Controller
3) Batteries
4) Charger
5) Throttle
6) Contactor (relay)
7) Wire
8 ) Rear Disc brake (If bike doesn't come with one)
9) Battery BMS got to have something
10) Aluminum to fabricate battery box

A bunch of small stuff like cable ties, connector, electrical tape and of course time and money.

Cost is all about how fast you want and far you want.

3000.00 for a slow poor performing system 5000.00 to impress people and 8000.00 for a long range amazing machine like no other. It's all about the batteries.

Mark

 

[jsplifer]

etard,

I think this motor DOES NOT allow delta/wye wiring because the stator is slanted. You could however do a series, parallel switch at the shifter giving you the same effect. Slanted stators give more torque, if I understand correctly.

jsplifer

 

[markcycle]

etard,

I think this motor DOES NOT allow delta/wye wiring because the stator is slanted. You could however do a series, parallel switch at the shifter giving you the same effect. Slanted stators give more torque, if I understand correctly.

jsplifer

That's correct series parallel is the way to go

Mark

 

[etard]

Oh, I guess I missed that somewhere back there.

Also, series/ parallel requires a controller that can withstand double voltage gains, or am I mistaken?

Dammit, things change so rapidly it's hard to keep abreast of all the new discoveries it seems every week here. Clearly, I need to slack off more at work and spend more time studying here.

 

[markcycle]

Oh, I guess I missed that somewhere back there.

Also, series/ parallel requires a controller that can withstand double voltage gains, or am I mistaken?

Dammit, things change so rapidly it's hard to keep abreast of all the new discoveries it seems every week here. Clearly, I need to slack off more at work and spend more time studying here.

Your right series/parallel requires a controller able to handle the series voltage.

Two 48 volt say 40 AH packs in parallel for 80AH pack for off the line current then at about 40Kph switch to series for 96 volts for high speed.

The question is: is it necessary, if you have a high C battery say 10C then probably just a 96 volt pack works. For a lower C battery then series/ parallel may be the way to go.

Mark

 

[markcycle]

The MHM-602 Motorcycle hub motor are in stock at my shop in Hicksville NY

Its been a long road but if you were waiting, wait no more

go to http://www.doingitall.net/EnerTrac and you can order one

or email me at elecbike@gmail.com

Mark