Motorcycle class Hub Motor

[markcycle]

Good curves, Mark, but the scales on the graph are at an unreadable resolution.

What are we looking at?

Why do the curves all converge to zero at 65 mph?

TomA

I Must give credit to Swbluto for the simulator that created the plot. I've tested the simulator and it is accurate.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6892&p=119810#p119810

I you want to use it set it up as per the setup image

 

[RoughRider]

i dont know if that programm is so good...

because it says, that your motor has a torque over 700Nm...i cant belive that...

 

[michaelplogue]

hey Mark - quick question: Is it possible to route the wires out the same side that the torque arm and brake disc mounts are? I was going to see if it would be possible to machine a vertical upright for a front wheel assembly (using a double a-arm suspension) for a reverse trike. But then I realized that the wires would come out the wrong side.......

 

[swbluto]

Just a quick note. The current limit assumes a battery current limiter, and does not consider a motor current limit. So, in essence, the simulator isn't a good approximation for motor-current controlled controllers like Kelly in the low-rpm range (Where the motor current exceeds the stated motor current limit, otherwise, it should be fine assuming an absence of magnet saturation.) but it seems like it'd still be a pretty good approximation in the upper RPM range.

 

[markcycle]

hey Mark - quick question: Is it possible to route the wires out the same side that the torque arm and brake disc mounts are? I was going to see if it would be possible to machine a vertical upright for a front wheel assembly (using a double a-arm suspension) for a reverse trike. But then I realized that the wires would come out the wrong side.......

It's possible and It's been done.

Mark

 

[markcycle]

Just a quick note. The current limit assumes a battery current limiter, and does not consider a motor current limit. So, in essence, the simulator isn't a good approximation for motor-current controlled controllers like Kelly in the low-rpm range (Where the motor current the stated motor current limit, otherwise, it should be fine assuming an absence of magnet saturation.) but it seems like it'd still be a pretty good approximation in the upper RPM range.

Can there be a table say with 6 to 10 entries for current limit as a function of RPM. That would approximate armature current limiting

Mark

 

[swbluto]

Just a quick note. The current limit assumes a battery current limiter, and does not consider a motor current limit. So, in essence, the simulator isn't a good approximation for motor-current controlled controllers like Kelly in the low-rpm range (Where the motor current the stated motor current limit, otherwise, it should be fine assuming an absence of magnet saturation.) but it seems like it'd still be a pretty good approximation in the upper RPM range.

Can there be a table say with 6 to 10 entries for current limit as a function of RPM. That would approximate armature current limiting

Mark

That would work if you had the photo-shopping skills.

The better thing to do would be to add an appropriate motor current limit in the program. But since I'm no longer contributing to it because it satisfies my needs, someone else will have to program that in. So, I'm going to release it open source with a GPL license fairly soon so hopefully there will be some community contributions.

 

[michaelplogue]

hey Mark - quick question: Is it possible to route the wires out the same side that the torque arm and brake disc mounts are? I was going to see if it would be possible to machine a vertical upright for a front wheel assembly (using a double a-arm suspension) for a reverse trike. But then I realized that the wires would come out the wrong side.......

It's possible and It's been done.

Mark

Cool! I don't suppose that the vertical uprights that have been done before would be something that could become commercially available, would they?

 

[markcycle]

My next two Demo bike projects

The question is what batteries to use
I need a very high C battery for this build
I'm thinking a 20AH @ 96 volts just because of cost I'm keeping the "AH" low
SO at 20AH I'll need to pull 20C peak and so explains the dilemma

I keep going back to RC batteries because of there high C rating and low cost, yet I am very aware of there safety issues
the price performance of RC batteries is amazing if you factor in the C rating and not just Amp/Hr

 

[oatnet]

The question is what batteries to use

how about the new 20ah a123 prisimatics? A 33s pack of the 20ah cells (6.5" x 9" x 9") would yield 600a, weigh 34lbs, and cost $1700. I'm wondering how a 144v40ah pack would do with one of your motors...

 

[markcycle]

finishing up an interesting project for a enclosed trike

two wheels with 16 inch rims laced by us in the shop
left/right braking system

Here is a picture of the left wheel when looking from the back of the trike

Mark

 

[pgt400]

Nice shop! Looks like you have a plan!

 

[markcycle]

More pictures of the wheels/motor for the trike

 

[markcycle]

Nice shop! Looks like you have a plan!

Thanks

 

[Knuckles]

bada bing!

Must build monster controller
Must build monster controller
Must build monster controller
Must build monster controller

 

[johnhead@frontiernet.net]

Hello and happy new year Mark,
I like the dual rear wheel motor arrangement as well.
Now when I get the leaning assembly completed I'll send you some photos. Hopefully in a month or two. It's below freezing in the garage so I am doing some "limited" engineering in the living room (when the wife's away).
Regards
John Head

 

[voicecoils]

...Would these hub motors fit in a 10" rim??

What would be the unit price for an order of 5000?

Could they potentially be set up with a single winding ie 6201... using two of them to power a trike (72V) with the aim of getting them to spin faster..???

Head to http://www.doingitall.net/EnerTrac/product.php and contact Mark directly.

You are both working with the same motor supplier (with Mark putting a massive dev effort into the X6 series), I'm guessing it's in your mutual best interests to discuss offline.

 

[weoner]

Hello all

I think I have posted here before

either way, can someone link me to the exact controller to use for this, the kelly website does not have a 96v. I was told by Marc that the KBL series is the one to get, and on the website there it states that for 60 mph you need a 96v controller, also how many amps should I be looking at to achieve a typical 250cc driving experience?

http://www.newkellycontroller.com/index.php?cPath=23

Thanks

Andrew

 

[enoob]

either way, can someone link me to the exact controller to use for this, the kelly website does not have a 96v. I was told by Marc that the KBL series is the one to get, and on the website there it states that for 60 mph you need a 96v controller, also how many amps should I be looking at to achieve a typical 250cc driving experience?

supply voltage from 24 to 120v after that how many amps you want cuz amps cost $$.
http://www.newkellycontroller.com/index.php?cPath=23_43&osCsid=326852c11213bfb6058dbd840db1c364

 

[weoner]

Thank you very much

well so the cheapest one will only do 75 amps continuous so that means I can't achieve highway speeds, however the next one up will do 150 amps continuous which means I will be able to do 60 mph without any harm.

is there a cheaper place to get Kelly controllers?

Andrew

 

[AussieJester]

is there a cheaper place to get Kelly controllers?

Andrew

Yes...from kelly controllers direct

KiM

 

[weoner]

hi again

Thanks for the reply, but they are the same price

Andrew

 

[AussieJester]

hi again

Thanks for the reply, but they are the same price

Andrew

Your not going to get cheaper they are the manufacturers :?

KiM

 

[TomA]

...well so the cheapest one will only do 75 amps continuous so that means I can't achieve highway speeds, however the next one up will do 150 amps continuous...
Andrew

It is wise to be at least a little skeptical of the Kelly Controller ratings, and not to buy one for an application at or even close to the upper limit of claimed output. I don't want to start this entire conversation over again here- you can find it at exhaustive length, and contributed to by employees of Kelly, over at the DIY Electric Car Forums- in more than one thread. Its fair to say that Kelly controllers, historically, simply did not deliver claimed amperage. There's a big debate about whether they have been redesigned, upgraded, or somehow otherwise more accurately rated. The most prudent thing to do is consider the ratings a little (or a lot) optimistic, particularly the continuous ratings, and buy accordingly.

If I were sizing a Kelly Controller for, say, a 96V pack of 60Ah Thunder Sky batteries, with regen, I'd probably choose the KBL12601I. Yes, at $1400 that probably isn't what you wanted to hear, but if you really intend to drive the motor with the amps that such a pack can deliver, that "600A" controller can do it. The $1000 "400A" unit just below it in the Kelly range probably cannot, and the $700 "270A" unit below that certainly cannot. Remember, you have to cool this controller, too. The higher rated unit should also be more resistant to thermal cutback, which is what the fudge in the ratings is largely about.

Mark very likely has his own recommendations, but my point is simply that it isn't a very good idea to spec a Kelly (or almost any) controller to operate near its max rated output.

HTH,

TomA

 

[markcycle]

Hey Marc,

Can we use (in the future) the 24 Mosfet controller from Steveo with this motor, just curious to know!

Thanks, good day!
Bikeraider

I'm not sure seems like it should. The 18 fet unit can overheat without proper cooling (tested).
I can't say yes since I haven't tested it.
Mark