MUST READ - eBikes are LEGAL in the USA - Since HR727 8-2001

[mwkeefer]

... documenting the abuse or violation of the federal rule and over reach of State and Local Government and Police?

Reminds me of Texas redneck days. Yeeeehaaa! Not really..haahaa :lol: We've got a very good local police force, at least compared with the likes of Ferguson or Detroit. Very little abuse and very friendly. So when that BlueBlood pulls me over, I'll do what I advise everyone to do when dealing with the police: 1> show respect, 2> say nothing, absolutely nothing, and 3> comply. Everything you say can be held against you -Miranda. Then take my case to Court, and I believe I've got a good case.

I'm with you, even if you get a dick cop... be polite, say as little as possible and comply. In addition once you've complied, ask nicely "Am I free to go officer?".

If he cuffs you, do shut up as miranda does in practice apply at that point - also if he says you are not free to go... either is a detainment or arrest even if they don't say, "You are under arrest".

Yes take it to court you have a good case but remember 2 things friends have learned the hard way,

1.) if you can afford one... always have a camera running on your bike rides for youtube and to capture any video or audio which may be able to get you off or prove the police lied, sure they have dash cams but good luck getting the footage somehow it's always overwritten or lost or... you get the idea.

2.) Judges will always believe and side with an officer, well 95% of the time so proof even if you just "accidentially" call your own home line and let the VoiceMail record the incident - yes I know, not admissible right experts? Wrong it falls under the accidental recording provision of wiretap and two party recording states and as such is deemed admissible in 90-95% of pretrial motion hearings

-Mike

 

[mwkeefer]

Back to your bike, is it under 900w electrical power, does maximum of 18mph and weighs less than 100 lbs without you on it... oh and has working pedals then most certainly yes you are 100% compliant with Federal definition (which does override all state and local laws which would further restrict power or speed levels) of a "Lightweight Electric Bicycle" and thus not a Motor Vehicle and not subject to Motor Vehicle jurisdiction or Laws *(Except for DUI law, being above the state limit while operating a fully legal "Lightweight Electric Bicycle" will get you a DUI but... then again so will a skate board, a normal bicycle and even a segway - the only true method of drunk travel without concern for DUI is ... wait for it, a Horse because as living, sentient creatures your a passenger and they are in control). Given this, the DUI exception makes sense legally and there is ample precedence for it.

I'm going to say I have 450W as it is a bone stock GNG mid drive kit with 48V. I say 18 MPH but the truth is it can go 27 MPH in high hear on flat road. The bike is ~60# on the scale ready to ride.

Not Legal and even a 70 year old judge would be able to tell... a 450w kit pulls 22A on controller at 48v which is 1056w now if your bike limited to 750w at all times and only exceeded 20 mph if you were pedaling and not more than 1HP - you would be legal

 

[markz]

Its actually quite simple.
The judge will state, you are not to operate a motor vehicle, for X amount of time.
Here the window is 10 years, 1st=1yr, 2nd=3yrs, 3rd=5yrs, 4th=10yrs, 5th or death = Life.
You kill someone or hurt someone, do not blow.


So ignorance of law is no defence.

You are found guilty until proven innocent.
Thats the way it is with DUI, why? because its a serious problem.

6 months, stateside, seems about right.
Canada has weaker laws.

You have to become the expert.
You have to know the law.

MOTOR VEHICLE = Anything with a motor, that propells you.
Riding Lawn Mower.
Seadoo.
Airplance.
Train.
Pit BIke.
Motorized Toy.
Heck even an electric wheel chair. I am sure the judge will however make an exception on that one, in court.
Motorized Bicycle at any power level.
Heck even a canoe with a fishing motor on it.
ATV.

You are however allowed to drive motorized anything on private land.
Titled parking stall - seen a guy get pinched on that, care and control, public defender was stooooooooooooopid!!!!!!

 

[mwkeefer]

Its actually quite simple.
The judge will state, you are not to operate a motor vehicle, for X amount of time.
Here the window is 10 years, 1st=1yr, 2nd=3yrs, 3rd=5yrs, 4th=10yrs, 5th or death = Life.
You kill someone or hurt someone, do not blow.


So ignorance of law is no defence.

You are found guilty until proven innocent.
Thats the way it is with DUI, why? because its a serious problem.

6 months, stateside, seems about right.
Canada has weaker laws.

You have to become the expert.
You have to know the law.

MOTOR VEHICLE = Anything with a motor, that propells you.
Riding Lawn Mower.
Seadoo.
Airplance.
Train.
Pit BIke.
Motorized Toy.
Heck even an electric wheel chair. I am sure the judge will however make an exception on that one, in court.
Motorized Bicycle at any power level.
Heck even a canoe with a fishing motor on it.
ATV.

You are however allowed to drive motorized anything on private land.
Titled parking stall - seen a guy get pinched on that, care and control, public defender was stooooooooooooopid!!!!!!

Okay on all your other arguments except:

Federal House Rule Supercedes every other more restrictive regulation placed upon not a Moped not a Pedalable Motor Vehicle (they have complete authority over Motor Vehicles, no argument - Federal Law allows them to even apply Motor Vehicle to a bicycle or Skateboard if your DUI) but the Senate did two very important things:

1.) They defined and prevented lesser definition unless by them what a "Lightweight Electric Bicycle" consists of and the rules it would have to conform to in order to meet the definition criteria.

2.) They prevent any other legal body from placing rules for definition any lower than they themselves applied, higher limits fine, lower no way.

In doing this, they (any other government) can't call a Lightweight Electric Bicycle a Motor Vehicle, nor can they lump it in as say - This code shall apply to all Motor Vehicles and Lightweight Electronic Bicycles because DMV/DOT at state levels don't have authority to change their jurisdiction which is Motor Vehicles only.

Could a change in federal law change all of this over night, yes absolutely but for now... this is how it stands. I've had one case where the judge researched the issue, not just taking my exhibits for evidence and then kicked it out on its ear, scolding the trooper for bringing such a wrong and frivilous case to his courtroom and I know many others who have had similar situations where they too prevailed in court (actually know them, heard of lots).

 

[markz]

Bicycle is considered a vehilce. True.

 

[mwkeefer]

Bicycle is considered a vehilce. True.

Vehicle, TRUE!
Motor Vehicle, FALSE!

The congress made the definition "Lightweight Electric Vehicle" and prohibited a state or local government explicitly from making the bicycles lower speed or power at their whim. This was to protect a basic minimum of safety. I read most of the subsequent reports from 2001 and in essence they concluded at 20 mph, the average person is more than capable of handling a bicycle safely, in addition many aging people who couldn't safely drive a car at 40 mph can safely ride up to 20 mph - it's a lowest common ability situation. In truth it was also determined that at 20 mph a driver has approx 2-3 times (based on 65 mph maximums in many areas) to see and react to a bicycle as opposed to the average long distance Lycra on a flat who sustains about 9-11 mph at best on flats to conserve energy. That according to the report would reduce clip or I didn't see him or he was just there when i blinked fatalities that happen every year (look at the white memorial bike project, i see them here now too)

-Mike

 

[arkmundi]

Let's take a simpler case - say I'm on a non-motorized skateboard and riding down the middle of the street. Police are going to kick my ass to the curb, literally. Its their jurisdiction, their prerogative. Keep doing it and its jail. Because the roads are for traffic and they want to keep that moving, for all the obvious reasons. Put a motor on that and its worse for me. But if I do ever end up in Court, I'll pull up this thread and PM you and anyone else who can give me an argument, even if it might be wrong, because who knows? I may get a Judge who sympathizes with some car-free greenee old disabled dude on an electric wheelchair that happens to look & operate a lot like a bike.

 

[markz]

...Like I said, until theres any kind motor on it.
Thats why you got to ride your bike on the road, not sidewalk, unless you are under 18.

 

[mwkeefer]

Let's take a simpler case - say I'm on a non-motorized skateboard and riding down the middle of the street. Police are going to kick my ass the curb, literally. Its their jurisdiction, their prerogative. Keep doing it and its jail. Because the roads are for traffic and they want to keep that moving, for all the obvious reasons. Put a motor on that and its worse for me. But if I do ever end up in Court, I'll pull up this thread and PM you and anyone else who can give me an argument, even if it might be wrong, because who knows? I may get a Judge who sympathizes with some car-free greenee old disabled dude on an electric wheelchair that happens to look & operate a lot like a bike.

Yes if you are impeding the flow of traffic, if your doing it on a bike eBike or not you can always do as my city friends do and cite the many accepted experts who defend this as proactive cyclin and how muchc safer it is... But if you don't ride like an ass your not impeding the flow of traffic.

lol, was just thinking I should start a thread pro marijuana in here... I love debating that one, maybe creationism? Okay, sorry and no offense just needed to lighten this up a tad


-Mike
- 12KW Dual RC 2014 Camber, max speed 20 mph, power limit 750w

 

[gogo]

Let's take a simpler case - say I'm on a non-motorized skateboard and riding down the middle of the street. Police are going to kick my ass the curb, literally. Its their jurisdiction, their prerogative. Keep doing it and its jail. Because the roads are for traffic and they want to keep that moving, for all the obvious reasons. Put a motor on that and its worse for me. But if I do ever end up in Court, I'll pull up this thread and PM you and anyone else who can give me an argument, even if it might be wrong, because who knows? I may get a Judge who sympathizes with some car-free greenee old disabled dude on an electric wheelchair that happens to look & operate a lot like a bike.

Yes if you are impeding the flow of traffic, if your doing it on a bike eBike or not you can always do as my city friends do and cite the many accepted experts who defend this as proactive cyclin and how muchc safer it is... But if you don't ride like an ass your not impeding the flow of traffic.

lol, was just thinking I should start a thread pro marijuana in here... I love debating that one, maybe creationism? Okay, sorry and no offense just needed to lighten this up a tad


-Mike
- 12KW Dual RC 2014 Camber, max speed 20 mph, power limit 750w

In Iowa, bicycles, even ebikes, are specifically not vehicles and they are traffic. The impeding traffic laws are for when motor vehicles start impeding bicyclists or each other.

 

[markz]

Around here, the wording states....
Ride as close to the curb as practicle. Kind of vague, intrepret that anyway you want.
Riding next to a parking lane, how wides a door open? Thats how far away I ride.

But yes a bicycle is a vehicle, put any motor on it, its motorized vehicle. If its ONE WATT Motor you Drink and ride = DUI DWS DWDQ`d
Already got a DUI, and you ride, another charge driving while disqualified, or driving while prohibited aka suspended. Add additional time onto your suspension. 6 months usually, jail time, probation, fines.

Simple as that. Operate a ride-on mower, ride-on-power-toy, seadoo, boat, fish troller motor on a canoe, atv, dirt bike, motorcycle, pit bike, train, scaled toy train like in amusement parks, car, truck, catepillar, earth mover, crane, 18 wheeler, airplane, ultralight, power skateboard, powered inline skates, power wheelchair = DUI DWS DWDQ = Another Court Date = More $ = More Suspension Time = Jail Time = Probation Time

You ever see the TV `Cops`, they arrest people in the states all the time drunk driving a ride-on mower.
Heck there was one show where a guy was drunk, driving to the liquor store in an aerial lift aka lift platform, yes another guy in a cherry picker got pinched for DUI.

 

[dogman dan]

Perhaps I stated it too simply.

The feds can regulate the definition of an ebike, 750w ..... as bicycle. I believe you and those you consulted are correct about the state not being allowed to define an ebike much differently, as in, 250w rule or such. Can't be more restrictive. They are allowed to define it as above 750w if they choose. But not below 750w. The state, if it enacts a definition of ebike into it's motor vehicle statutes, should comply with the fed definition, as far as not making it MORE restrictive. They can make it less restrictive, such as not actually requiring pedals if they want.

Then it's the state that says how said bicycle can be operated on the state public roadways. That state law may well go along with federal rules, like no bikes on the interstate.

It's the state motor vehicle statutes that any prosecution of any offender will be charged by. Each state has it's own quirky state DMV laws. No cop ever writes a "federal ticket".

Any town can regulate use of bikes on town property, such as bike trails that are part of the city parks property. It doesn't even take a law, it can just be a "rule", and the signs go up. Cops may or may not give a damn. University cops in my town do, city cops ignore till bullets fly.

 

[gogo]

That state law may well go along with federal rules, like no bikes on the interstate.

Bicycles, and any conveyance that can attain and maintain 40 MPH are allowed on Interstates in Iowa.

I learned that by using 'bicycle' as a search term in our state Attorney General's website.
http://www.state.ia.us/government/ag/issuing_opinions/atty_gen_opin.html
You might be able to find some pertinent information about bicycles and your state law if your Attorney General's issued opinions are searchable.

 

[duffmanaudio]

Hey Mike I just noticed we are close. I live next to norristown and ride my ebikes all over. The cops wave and ask questions lol.

To all my ES Brothers,

I've been watching the back and forth, is it legal is it not... mostly US arguments, my state says no, NJ took my bike, I got a ticket for driving on a DUI suspended license and did 6 months jail time!!!!!

E N O U G H !!!!

Sorry I'm very frustrated, I've been explaining without quoting law or citing House Rule or Senate Votes on said Bills turning them into law nor the subsequent regulation which came from the new jurisdictional body - this is only the US, I didn't have the time to chase down the Federal Code, the lexus-nexus briefs relating to this law and pertaining to the US Department of Transportation in addition to the Consumer Protection Safety Act where in fact the jurisdiction now lay.

Since I'm not a lawyer I don't ask you to believe me, I actually will walk you through from the August, 2001 inspection and passage of original HR-707 and the subsequent addendum with links to official records (find your own if you don't trust mine) and in some cases a break down of what each passage means to keeping your eBike (commercial, which none do - or DIY legal in the USA).

BTW: There is non law against having an off-road mode, for true compliance even not written I'd have it locked out with a key switch off the side of the bike somewhere just to make it seem like an old 4wd you had to get out and lock the hubs it makes police and others think it's much more difficult to do and that you cant do it while riding

----
Where does US Federal Law come from for Light Weight Electric Bicycles?

This comes from first HR727 which introduced and passed on the same day by 107th congress in August of 2001 the only exhibit provided was an accounting from all the needed bureaucratic penny counters but they produced a report "Report HR107-5" which submitted on that August 2001 day basically endorsed what the Congress wanted to do with the bill. (A very odd day) - To make the day odder it passed 301-1

That law was amended later to include rider must pedal above 20 mph requirements and one other but it's insignificant in this explanation and wont affect your legality or understanding of what is and isn't legal.

A cop telling you your riding a Motor Vehicle = NOT LEGAL
A Judge upholding a ticket = NOT LEGAL
A cop writing you Motor Vehicle Tickets = NOT LEGAL
A cop impounding or towing your eBike = NOT LEGAL

Basically everything they try to do to limit power below 750w, below 20mph on roadways (unless posted speed is lower, bicyclists still have to follow some basic rules right) is against the law and just because it has a motor doesn't make it Motor Vehicle thanks to the Congress (never thought I'd say that either).

So first they defined Light Weight Electric Bicycle, then turned over jurisdiction to Consumer Product Safety Act not National Transportation Organization in fact HR-707 law actually removes the very jurisdiction and puts it where normal bicycles are regulated because eBikes are not Motor Vehicles...

But wait it gets better... Here is the exact (excerpt but portrayed in context):

CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY ACT
* * * * * * *
low-speed electric bicycles
Sec. 38. (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, low-
speed electric bicycles are consumer products within the
meaning of section 3(a)(1) and shall be subject to the
Commission regulations published at section 1500.18(a)(12) and
part 1512 of title 16, Code of Federal Regulations.
(b) For the purpose of this section, the term ``low-speed
electric bicycle'' means a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with
fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750
watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface,
when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator
who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph.
(c) To further protect the safety of consumers who ride low-
speed electric bicycles, the Commission may promulgate new or
amended requirements applicable to such vehicles as necessary
and appropriate.
(d) This section shall supersede any State law or requirement
with respect to low-speed electric bicycles to the extent that
such State law or requirement is more stringent than the
Federal law or requirements referred to in subsection (a).

Let me break it down for you ladies and Gents:

A.) Read the sections they refer to, it means low speed electric bicycles (another definition for a 20mph lightweight electric bicycle, of note but not important) - Consumer Protection Safety Organization (ever hear of Specialized, Audi, Fugi going to a Consumer Protection Safety Organization testing facility, nope... they don't exist, there is no need)

B.) Here we define "low-speed electric bicycle" by it's amended constraints, and remember I told you there were a few surprises or loopholes? 2-3 Wheels, that's the same. Fully functional pedals, that's new but no big deal right?. Motor of less than 750 w, not rated at 750 w but just 750 w and 1 hp which means a 4 kw motor detuned to 750 is technically legal.

Ready for the one thing which escapes everyone?
"when powered solely by the motor while being ridden but not pedaled the speed can't exceed 20mph" - the gag is on a modern bike with low resistance tires even average riders can easily sustain 25-30 mph themselves on flats. Now those riders output 200-300w, for argument lets say 200 watts of power... According to the 20mph unless they are also putting in power (pedaling) which since 200-250w would cover 20 mph if you pedal a tad even without effort you can turn up the full 750w for 3x the power output and 5-8 mph faster speeds (lots of fun and legal).

D.) I think is my personal Favorite:

"This section shall supersede any State law or requirement
with respect to low-speed electric bicycles to the extent that
such State law or requirement is more stringent than the
Federal law or requirements referred to in subsection (a).
And that my ES Facebook Friends is why eBikes are actually legal at a federal level and any state laws which restrict, prohibit on roadways, etc, or attempt to pass inspection ordinances or such are in direct violation of this FEDERAL LAW and the body which has jurisdiction over it.

Once they write you a ticket, take your bike, etc... you have a FEDERAL CIVIL SUIT and those lawyers love this shit when your right and can prove it.

It will require a proper Legal Enforcement or Mode modification so you have on and off road but we can come up with that, faster than you think.

In that legal mode, you are 100% protected by Federal Laws.

I will obviously take any arguments as I can always be wrong, not a lawyer but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night...

Seriously a question for all of you, what country, state or province and town or city do you live in, what are you eBike "laws" what are speed limits? I know in the Germany you can have 350 but must always be pedaling and No Throttle allowed so pure low powered pedal assist and above the kph limit the motor must stop applying further power...

What are your locals like, just for all of our references?

But now my US eBike Friends know where they stand Legally if ever there is a problem, you can also print copies of the HR 727 law, I keep that a copy of the 401 to 1 vote to make it law and the addended law requiring pedals and having the 20mph without rider input or whatever the other change was.

Hey on the lighter side of things, did you see the "Lightweight" weight limit for the bike dry? 100 lbs?
Lets see Full Sus - 35 lbs (no carbon)
Recumpence dual stage Davinci drive with 3215 or 3220 - 6-7 lbs
Strong freewheeling Bottom Bracket Drive - 4 lbs
2000w Charger in Panier or Trunk or Bar Bag wherever - 6 lbs
----
Total weight without batteries: 52 lbs so 48 lbs left for packs...

Assuming 12S Lipo and 4T 3220 or 6T 3220 169 kV

Now the power pack - how does 50AH 12S 20C sound at just about 43 lbs, thats 2200 wh or 1000 miles range at 22wh per, 500 miles if your really pushing for 50wh per mile Better than any car out there

Okay, yes that's kinda absurd (unless your Justin Le and your planning a cross country trip with 3 stops from canada to california) but imagine what 100 lbs of bike would be capable of, guess the MotoPed offroad bikes are legal if they have pedals - should make quick disconnect - ive seen em somewhere.

That was my .50c Sorry to go on so long but I'm passionate about my convictions that Federal Law Protects us eBikers

Peace (-<)

-Mike

 

[mwkeefer]

duffman,

I ride in norristown sometimes, not alot but sometimes... Cops there have better things to do then bother us.

You should come down the city sometime, we can meet up at rittenhouse and get the bicycle cops to chase us - it's a blast man and htey havent a chance in hell of catching us

-Mike

 

[markz]

Running from the cops on bicycles. Wonder if thats evading charge? They got no sirens, hearings bad!

 

[mwkeefer]

Running from the cops on bicycles. Wonder if thats evading charge? They got no sirens, hearings bad!

There is likely presidence supporting it, cops have eyes in the backs of their heads shouldn't we?

Actually if they just claim it's an evading charge, the trick is loose them in straight aways, cut down an alley into the back door of Suburban Station in Philadelhi or 30th Street... Hop off, fold up in 20 seconds and begin walking to the train - they are busy looking for a bicycle not luggage

A trick I learned long ago

-Mike

 

[gblast123]

one thing I want to clarify.

Any state can prohibit the use of bicycles.

What the federal statute is designed to do is equalize the electric bike with non-electric bikes.

ie, if they allow bicycles, THEY HAVE TO ALLOW eBIKES.

They can however, say NO BIKES ALLOWED.

Also, what mkeefer says is pretty much correct.. you should always carry a copy of the statute with you on your ebike.

If ur stopped, inform the police officer politely about the statute and give him a copy. Ask him to please call his desk sargent to confirm this before he writes a ticket.

If he writes a ticket anyway, call the precinct where he is located and speak to someone there, and write them a letter with a copy of statute.

A police officer who knowingly arrests you or issues a citation, can and should be reported to a higher authority..

All else fails, go to FEDERAL COURT. You can do this by yourself.

Federal Judges have no tolerance for states breaking federal statutes.

Nothing here should be considered legal advice and you should consult a real lawyer before doing anything in the event that you get a summons.

 

[arkmundi]

I posted at "Storm" ebike - new fat tire entry and again on the same thread, salient to this thread.

 

[markz]

one thing I want to clarify.

Any state can prohibit the use of bicycles.

What the federal statute is designed to do is equalize the electric bike with non-electric bikes.

ie, if they allow bicycles, THEY HAVE TO ALLOW eBIKES.

They can however, say NO BIKES ALLOWED.

Also, what mkeefer says is pretty much correct.. you should always carry a copy of the statute with you on your ebike.

If ur stopped, inform the police officer politely about the statute and give him a copy. Ask him to please call his desk sargent to confirm this before he writes a ticket.

If he writes a ticket anyway, call the precinct where he is located and speak to someone there, and write them a letter with a copy of statute.

A police officer who knowingly arrests you or issues a citation, can and should be reported to a higher authority..

All else fails, go to FEDERAL COURT. You can do this by yourself.

Federal Judges have no tolerance for states breaking federal statutes.

Nothing here should be considered legal advice and you should consult a real lawyer before doing anything in the event that you get a summons.

The cop doesnt have time for you and your "stupid" papers (Im being sarcastic here).
His job is to make his quota, write you a ticket and in most cases people pay up without fighting or getting it reduced, the convicted person is guilty until proven innocent in the court of law. The quota is there for a reason. To fill the police squandrons lunch room with donuts so the pigs can have an all you can eat donut break. And so the top cops can ride around in a $70,000 air conditioned Suburban, when all they really need is a Ford Exploder. See these people go into this line of work for one reason and one reason only, so they can go on a power trip. They have the control. They know its a union job and they know for a fact it can be a dangerous job, so they try to get off the street beat as fast as possible. There is the police code of conduct which is to protect their own, the "blue shield". They know if they do something wrong its unlikely they will be prosecuted, and if they do go to court, they know how to drag it out, and the copper gets a desk job with pay. It makes me sick what these punks can get away with, but I let it slide and obey the laws. I do not stick out, I blend in.

So take the summons with pride, write down the piggies badge number and name and tell him after he said his peice and you said nothing that you will see him in court. Hopefully you have it on camera so you can sue the pig for a big chunk of change.

 

[skWarDog]

Its actually quite simple.
You have to know the law.

MOTOR VEHICLE = Anything with a motor, that propells you.
Riding Lawn Mower.
Seadoo.
Airplance.
Train.
Pit BIke.
Motorized Toy.
Heck even an electric wheel chair. I am sure the judge will however make an exception on that one, in court.
Motorized Bicycle at any power level.
Heck even a canoe with a fishing motor on it.
ATV.

You are however allowed to drive motorized anything on private land.
Titled parking stall - seen a guy get pinched on that, care and control, public defender was stooooooooooooopid!!!!!!

Okay on all your other arguments except:

Federal House Rule Supercedes every other more restrictive regulation placed upon not a Moped not a Pedalable Motor Vehicle (they have complete authority over Motor Vehicles, no argument - Federal Law allows them to even apply Motor Vehicle to a bicycle or Skateboard if your DUI) but the Senate did two very important things:

1.) They defined and prevented lesser definition unless by them what a "Lightweight Electric Bicycle" consists of and the rules it would have to conform to in order to meet the definition criteria.

2.) They prevent any other legal body from placing rules for definition any lower than they themselves applied, higher limits fine, lower no way.

+1 mwkeefer.....SUCKS NJ confiscated your wheels. Were you able to get it back?
I read this entire thread and you nailed the laws! Except this one:

Damn, is the DogMan.... All the experts and old school techs are coming out of the woodwork against me

Ditto
Cities and towns, state parks, BLM, Forest service, etc can also enact any rule they want covering ebike use on multi use trails. They can and do post signs saying NO motors of any kind. They can also post signs saying no motor vehicles. If that is the case, your ebike may not be a motor vehicle, as defined by your state DMV.

State Parks Receive Federal Funding but I do believe you are right in that they have the authority to prevent you riding trails (odd since eBikes are Bicycles, maybe a good test case for getting an actionable situation, thanks) however they couldn't' stop you riding into the park like a normal bicycle and chaining your bike up.

Your wrong! Don't be intimidated by anyone like a normal sheeple, you worked f'n hard researching this thread, Thank You!
Let me help you simplify this;
-Since a "bicycle" is defined by the Fed, regulated by the State and applied equally to all vehicles covered in the definition.
-So in this case, it is the sign that is illegal (happens a lot). Just cus someone erected a sign don't mean dogsh*t!
-You would be allowed to take your legal e-bike past this sign whether it says "No Motors of any Kind" or "No Motor Vehicles".
-Under the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), it would be illegal to deny access to anyone, this is the MAIN reason why the Fed included e-bikes in the House bill.

I live in NJ, very simple why no cop can legally write you a ticket for riding an e-bike OF ANY AMOUNT OF POWER (even Deathbike7,but....) in this State, with 2 exceptions;
-E-bikes are defined by the Fed, therefore "legal" e-bikes are considered bicycles in NJ.
-E-bikes are not defined by any NJ Statute (not recognized by MVC statutes, don't even try the "moped" classification, no, not happening, not even close).
-Hence, some "e-bikes" are "bicycles" in NJ.
-NJ peace officers must be "qualified"(trained) to write a complaint and are only "qualified" based on NJ Statutes, so "officially" they can't tell the difference between a 250w e-bike and a 25kw e-bike. But.....
-Exception #1; If they suspect your bike is illegal, they can call an "expert" who would then have to testify in court and justify the expense to taxpayers.
-Exception #2; There are a lot of Federal "Johnny Law's" around here, but most not qualified/don't care.... bigger fish to fry!

Right from a good buddy, Lieutenant NJSP
This might be a little different in New York though, I think they do define an "E-bike"...... Great Thread!

 

[markz]

You make a very interesting argument and one that I have thought about in the past.
Disabilities or people in wheel chairs or motor assist for ability.

The point you make about people in ability assist motor assist "vehicles" having equal rights to buildings, pathways and such, and signs that state no motor vehicles, which is the common sign.u Its a good valid point yo make.

 

[markz]

You have to be licensed to ride a bicycle in Greece?
Would love to go one day to Greece, amazing country from what I have seen on TV.

 

[arkmundi]

[ -Under the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), it would be illegal to deny access to anyone, this is the MAIN reason why the Fed included e-bikes in the House bill.

Interesting.

 

[LockH]

*BURP* Another non-USA guy here (from the Land of the Free (Lunch) aka (Frozen) "Great" White North/Canada). Interesting thread though, non-the-less, where folks ("lawyers"?) like to chop stuff up (EG "States" and "Provinces", further broken down into "Cities", etc with their own "special needs".) Currently "discussing" towns and cities across CAR ADDICTED province of Ontario, that try to ban and restrict our Federal "power-assisted bicycle" (limit 500 watts CONTINOUS. Sorry EU/AU 200W, etc folks!). My theory, when ya strip away the "seatbelts", "airbags", "crush zones", etc. the risks of travel by vehicle shifts back to some extent to the vehicle operators ("drivers"), watt makes the public spaces safer for EVerybuddy ELSE.

So only wish to add to this ES thread posting by our own Master Dogman:
https://www.electricbike.com/electric-bike-law/