My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

[tsellers]

wow, but 1200 cells !!! you have big plans !!!

Should have mentioned, most not for eBike builds. I'll grab a few for personal use on our bikes (we bought about 5 empty battery cases with our last Frey order), (half the cells are 18650 and half 21700), most are going into power banks for radio repeaters and base stations.

 

[barbarossa]

wow, but 1200 cells !!! you have big plans !!!

Should have mentioned, most not for eBike builds. I'll grab a few for personal use on our bikes (we bought about 5 empty battery cases with our last Frey order), (half the cells are 18650 and half 21700), most are going into power banks for radio repeaters and base stations.

aahhh… I understand. I like those bigger battery projects. I don't know why but there is nothing more satisfying than the first use of a battery you built on your own - strange

 

[barbarossa]

anyways. I made a mistake several posts before. I thought there is no 160mm to 220mm brake adapter for 220mm Magura MDR rotors.
finally I found one (FORMULA FD40289-10) :


So even for Frey CC it is possible to use 220mm front rotors. of course it is not approved by Rockshox and no original Magura adapter and perhaps overkill but it is possible. and of course it is possible to use 220mm rotors for rear brake (coming from 160mm).

 

[JohnnyEppelseed]

wow, but 1200 cells !!! you have big plans !!!

Should have mentioned, most not for eBike builds. I'll grab a few for personal use on our bikes (we bought about 5 empty battery cases with our last Frey order), (half the cells are 18650 and half 21700), most are going into power banks for radio repeaters and base stations.

aahhh… I understand. I like those bigger battery projects. I don't know why but there is nothing more satisfying than the first use of a battery you built on your own - strange

Alchemy

 

[Balmorhea]

We're planning to buy about 1200 cells soon and get some more BMS at the same time,

wow, but 1200 cells !!! you have big plans !!!

Psst. I want to let y'all in on a secret. Be cool.

You can get bigger cells than that, that have a whole lot more energy in them. Then you don't need so many.

Thank me later.

 

[HughF]

Unfortunately, this is something we should all live in fear of.

Not because Frey makes a bad bike, but because as my professional welder friend pointed out, all aluminum frames that experience torque tensional stress will crack given enough time. That time of course depends on the composition of the alloy. Frey gives the spec for their frames as 6061 aluminum, which is common. Why? Because the stronger alloys such as 7075 and 2014 are almost impossible to weld. Given that the tensional yield strength of the other alternative, 7005 aluminum, is only 5.5% stronger than 6061, and it appears the break happened beside the weld and not in the weld, it really has me questioning if the fracture comes down to the tube shape. A quick Google search seems to indicate that round tubes are stronger than square or rectangular tubes.There is one post on a forum for builders of aircraft frames that suggest square tubes are most likely to fail at junctions rather than flats.

Given the above, I've decided that the best preventative maintenance I can do to prolong this part of my bike frame is go on a diet.

Aluminium MTB frames all crack eventually... It's just the nature of the beast.

 

[Balmorhea]

Aluminium MTB frames all crack eventually... It's just the nature of the beast.

Sure. But the oldest one I've had since new is about 30 years old now, and the oldest one I ride is older than that. But they are traditional diamond frames with no monkey business.

Optimized structure goes a long way. And mechanical suspension goes a long way against optimizing the structure.

 

[HughF]

Aluminium MTB frames all crack eventually... It's just the nature of the beast.

Sure. But the oldest one I've had since new is about 30 years old now, and the oldest one I ride is older than that. But they are traditional diamond frames with no monkey business.

Optimized structure goes a long way. And mechanical suspension goes a long way against optimizing the structure.

And the post-weld heat treat which is vital if you don't want to end up with failure in the HAZ. There is a reason why a lot of small time frame builders stick with steel (be it gas pipe or something from reynolds/tange), and that's because you don't need a heat treatment oven.

*tig welder by trade, specialising in aluminium, think I'm suitably qualified

 

[coolminty]

anyways. I made a mistake several posts before. I thought there is no 160mm to 220mm brake adapter for 220mm Magura MDR rotors.
finally I found one (FORMULA FD40289-10) :
Formula_160_220mm.JPG

So even for Frey CC it is possible to use 220mm front rotors. of course it is not approved by Rockshox and no original Magura adapter and perhaps overkill but it is possible. and of course it is possible to use 220mm rotors for rear brake (coming from 160mm).
Formula_FreyAM1000.JPG

May I ask which stand that is? Looks like a sturdy one. I definitely have bike envy for your 2 Freys.

 

[barbarossa]

anyways. I made a mistake several posts before. I thought there is no 160mm to 220mm brake adapter for 220mm Magura MDR rotors.
finally I found one (FORMULA FD40289-10) :
Formula_160_220mm.JPG

So even for Frey CC it is possible to use 220mm front rotors. of course it is not approved by Rockshox and no original Magura adapter and perhaps overkill but it is possible. and of course it is possible to use 220mm rotors for rear brake (coming from 160mm).
Formula_FreyAM1000.JPG

May I ask which stand that is? Looks like a sturdy one. I definitely have bike envy for your 2 Freys.

it is a CUBE universal bicycle stand - slightly modified to match the Frey swing arm and I removed the upper part.
https://www.cube.eu/equipment/komponenten/staender/product/cube-kickstand-universal-black/

last year my Frey AM1000 was stolen and I could get back it by using GPS.
this summer my Frey EX was stolen. I prepared the Frey EX for shipping the motor to Innotrace and so I had to remove the GPS. shit happens. anyways I ordered a new (black) Frey EX at Frey/Ivy and will move in november...

so even the thieves seem to have some bike envy

 

[coolminty]

it is a CUBE universal bicycle stand - slightly modified to match the Frey swing arm and I removed the upper part.
https://www.cube.eu/equipment/komponenten/staender/product/cube-kickstand-universal-black/

last year my Frey AM1000 was stolen and I could get back it by using GPS.
this summer my Frey EX was stolen. I prepared the Frey EX for shipping the motor to Innotrace and so I had to remove the GPS. shit happens. anyways I ordered a new (black) Frey EX at Frey/Ivy and will move in november...

so even the thieves seem to have some bike envy

Cheers

that's some lucky thieves.. hopefully you get a second round of luck.

GPS is probably something that should installed by default in these bikes. I just use a thick ABUS Granit 540 but as you know a battery grinder works pretty quickly for these.

 

[barbarossa]

it is a CUBE universal bicycle stand - slightly modified to match the Frey swing arm and I removed the upper part.
https://www.cube.eu/equipment/komponenten/staender/product/cube-kickstand-universal-black/

last year my Frey AM1000 was stolen and I could get back it by using GPS.
this summer my Frey EX was stolen. I prepared the Frey EX for shipping the motor to Innotrace and so I had to remove the GPS. shit happens. anyways I ordered a new (black) Frey EX at Frey/Ivy and will move in november...

so even the thieves seem to have some bike envy

Cheers

that's some lucky thieves.. hopefully you get a second round of luck.

GPS is probably something that should installed by default in these bikes. I just use a thick ABUS Granit 540 but as you know a battery grinder works pretty quickly for these.

I also hope to get a second round of luck

yep, BOSCH battery grinder takes around one minute to open almost all locks. the thieve of my stolen Frey AM1000 used an abus lock - guy at the bike shop took under 30 seconds to open it.

 

[JohnnyEppelseed]

Hi, barbarossa.
I ordered an extra battery case for my AM1000 (theoretically arriving late December) and would like to build my battery beforehand. Can you remember the configuration/orientation of the cells when you did the tear-down of your 48 volt 13s6p battery (LG MJ1 cells). Was the case a Dorado Max?
Recommendation for a BMS? Advice, words of wisdom?
Thanks,
John

Hi John,
Unfortunately I did not take any photos. but yes, it is a Reention Max with 80 cells max - to be honest meanwhile I have three Reention Max batteries, 15S5P , 14S5P and 19S4P
6P -> cell groups have to be spread across different cell holder groups (max 16 cells per holder pair). not easy to get good serial connections and many "inner" cell group connections.
Building a 5P battery is much easier, 4P a little harder, 6P the hardest, I think. 5P => you can carefully put it together like a sandwich, each holder pair after the other.

I use Speedict Neptune 15 and Neptune 20 BMS (https://www.speedict.com/). I am happy with these and Neptune 15 fits into Reention Max battery case without modification - tight but it works. Neptune 20 BMS also fits but only if you take away the 4x cell row at the top holder pair.
here an example of Speedict 15 in my Reention max with good old Bafang Ultra Innotrace controller really nice android app included :
14S5P_SONY_VTC6_A.JPG

I am convinced, 15s5p seems easier. And who doesn't like a little more giddy-up? I guess it's time to contact Frey and change specs on my order so both of my batteries are 54V.

Am I correct in assuming that the Frey battery will not balance at 80%-90% charge?

 

[tsellers]

I am convinced, 15s5p seems easier. And who doesn't like a little more giddy-up?

Not sure if this will affect your model or not, but worth pointing out just in case. My M600 V2 will not power up if voltage is >58V. If you charge 15s to 90% SoC you'd be at 56.7V, so you should be OK, whereas 100% SoC may present power up problems unless you run it down first.

I didn't realize Frey would custom configure the battery packs, good to know.

 

[Hardcore]

Am1000 powers up with 58.8V

 

[barbarossa]

Yep, Frey AM1000 also powers up with 62.5 volts - I think even with original display.
I personally started with my first own built battery 15S5P @ 61.5 volts = 4.1 volts x 15 - after my original 48 volts battery. No problems, worked with v1.3 and v1.5 motor.
but of course not officially supported...

and yes, original BMS might not balance at lower voltages...

 

[JohnnyEppelseed]

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?mode=view&id=279600

Here are the torque specs for
the rear suspension bolts I
received from Cecilia at Frey.
A – 6 Nm
B – 8 Nm
C – 25+ Nm
D – 25+ Nm
E – 6 Nm
F – 6 Nm

 

[JohnnyEppelseed]

I am convinced, 15s5p seems easier. And who doesn't like a little more giddy-up?

Not sure if this will affect your model or not, but worth pointing out just in case. My M600 V2 will not power up if voltage is >58V. If you charge 15s to 90% SoC you'd be at 56.7V, so you should be OK, whereas 100% SoC may present power up problems unless you run it down first.

I didn't realize Frey would custom configure the battery packs, good to know.

I have been informed that the largest battery available from Frey is a 52v17.5ah.

 

[tsellers]

I have been informed that the largest battery available from Frey is a 52v17.5ah

No doubt for the AM1000, etc. I assume that the CC uses the same battery packs as the AM1000? For anyone that is interested, the M600 uses a smaller battery, but it can be used in the CC, as shown here:

 

[John-H]

Hello everyone. I am first time poster but long time lurker here on the endless sphere.

I didn't want to raise some old thread to ask my question, so I am asking here.

I am in the process of finding a frame for Bafang Ultra M620.

I have found this one for relatively low price:

It looks similar to Frey EX. What do you think about this geometry? Is it already outdated?

 

[LeftieBiker]

More likely the material and build quality are lower. The welds look fairly clean, but they are also pretty small...

 

[FlyingFinn]

Hello everyone. I am first time poster but long time lurker here on the endless sphere.

I didn't want to raise some old thread to ask my question, so I am asking here.

I am in the process of finding a frame for Bafang Ultra M620.

I have found this one for relatively low price:

It looks similar to Frey EX. What do you think about this geometry? Is it already outdated?

To my understanding the battery compartments are made by the battery manufacturer. The frame is designed around the battery compartment and not vice versa.

This is the reason why many bikes can have similar looking compartments.

About the frame itself the rear linkage looks flimzy. I wouldn’t ride hard mtb with it.

 

[Trudgeboy]

I just got a Frey AM1000. Nice bike, but barely climbs hills that my partner easily passes me on using her Radcity Stepthrough....my Frey just crawls, feels like there’s no battery at all.
Full charge and starting with a semi-cool motor, I’m weighing in at 180 lbs. Am climbing 800 ft in the course of 2 miles....about 4.10 degrees avg.

 

[Durtdemon]

I just got a Frey AM1000. Nice bike, but barely climbs hills that my partner easily passes me on using her Radcity Stepthrough....my Frey just crawls, feels like there’s no battery at all.
Full charge and starting with a semi-cool motor, I’m weighing in at 180 lbs. Am climbing 800 ft in the course of 2 miles....about 4.10 degrees avg.

Do you know how to use the gears?

 

[Trudgeboy]

I do know how to use the gears.