My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

[Kormyr]

I asked the manufacturer Frey about the new CANbus motors. They said that in the near future all ULTRA motors will be with CANbus. This will not allow programming the motor or using the EGGrider.

Speaking of EggRider, I have 1 on my EX with dual battery, and remaining % is completely off.
For example:
1) I start with 100%, then after 5min of moderate ride it shows 89%, when I turn it off and on again it goes back to 96%.
2) After a 20km ride it goes all the way from 100% to 0%, then 60-70% after rebooting

I did not do any modification on the settings, is there a place where I can set the battery capacity?

Nevermind I found the setting, just needed to read the manual.
In the display option you can enter the Ah (28 for dual battery), then % is ok.

I have another question though. I had a "display overvoltage" message on my EggRider.
I found this post in this topic that seem to give an explanation on this issue: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1589744#p1589744
If I understand correctly, using EggRider with the stock Frey dual battery configuration could cause damage to the EggRider display.
I'm not an expert so can someone explain if there is something that could be done to prevent damages to the display, without voiding any warranty?

 

[ProphetZarquon]

...
Today I received overseas & FedEx tracking info:

Oh ship!
A cargo vessel carrying the Frey AM1000 we ordered, is scheduled to depart tomorrow; expected to arrive at port in California by the 12th.

This ebike was originally scheduled to *ship* by Oct 16th, so I'm feeling pretty good about it!

I had a "display overvoltage" message on my EggRider.
I found this post in this topic that seem to give an explanation on this issue: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1589744#p1589744
If I understand correctly, using EggRider with the stock Frey dual battery configuration could cause damage to the EggRider display.
I'm not an expert so can someone explain if there is something that could be done to prevent damages to the display, without voiding any warranty?

Off-hand, first stop-gap workaround I think of, is "run the primary battery down a bit before connecting secondary, with the EggRider display connected"; but that's hardly safe, to pair discharged with charged! ...?

 

[barbarossa]

I have another question though. I had a "display overvoltage" message on my EggRider.
I found this post in this topic that seem to give an explanation on this issue: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1589744#p1589744
If I understand correctly, using EggRider with the stock Frey dual battery configuration could cause damage to the EggRider display.
I'm not an expert so can someone explain if there is something that could be done to prevent damages to the display, without voiding any warranty?

mmmhhh... if your battery is set at 54,6 volts at EggRider display settings you can check it by using full throttle and then immediatley release throttle - in that case the voltage spike will happen. it could be that internal cap of EggRiderr or SW102 is too small to handle remaining voltage spikes but normally controllers cap should make it flat. I only tested DPC18 display and a controller without the cap to see the voltage spikes.
anyways I would not recommend dual battery parallel configuration with diodes in the long run - there are also other reasons. I removed the diodes and changed the setup to a serial connection. so I can use 2x 36v internal/external or 1x 52v internal - in case of using only 1x 52v internal I simply short the connection of external battery (shown in my photo), of course 72v not possible with original controller but e.g. 2x 7s = 14s would be possible. so I have no different cell aging problem (in case of using sometimes only internal battery) and no diodes heat problem and no other problems (back EMF regen power has to go somewhere and it can't go back to the battery) . I would say a perfect solution (for me ).

 

[Kormyr]

I have another question though. I had a "display overvoltage" message on my EggRider.
I found this post in this topic that seem to give an explanation on this issue: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1589744#p1589744
If I understand correctly, using EggRider with the stock Frey dual battery configuration could cause damage to the EggRider display.
I'm not an expert so can someone explain if there is something that could be done to prevent damages to the display, without voiding any warranty?

mmmhhh... if your battery is set at 54,6 volts at EggRider display settings you can check it by using full throttle and then immediatley release throttle - in that case the voltage spike will happen. it could be that internal cap of EggRiderr or SW102 is too small to handle remaining voltage spikes but normally controllers cap should make it flat. I only tested DPC18 display and a controller without the cap to see the voltage spikes.
anyways I would not recommend dual battery parallel configuration with diodes in the long run - there are also other reasons. I removed the diodes and changed the setup to a serial connection. so I can use 2x 36v internal/external or 1x 52v internal - in case of using only 1x 52v internal I simply short the connection of external battery (shown in my photo), of course 72v not possible with original controller but e.g. 2x 7s = 14s would be possible. so I have no different cell aging problem (in case of using sometimes only internal battery) and no diodes heat problem and no other problems (back EMF regen power has to go somewhere and it can't go back to the battery) . I would say a perfect solution (for me ).
short_52v_FreyEX.JPG

I think that the message appeared after this exact scenario. Full throttle and then complete release.
It means that for standard pedal assist this issue should not happen?
If yes, I may just refrain from using the throttle and let it as it is. Or just be more gentle with the throttle.

I have also another question for urban users. Which tyres do you recommend for speed and power efficiency on road only use?

 

[barbarossa]

I think that the message appeared after this exact scenario. Full throttle and then complete release.
It means that for standard pedal assist this issue should not happen?
If yes, I may just refrain from using the throttle and let it as it is. Or just be more gentle with the throttle.

I have also another question for urban users. Which tyres do you recommend for speed and power efficiency on road only use?

first of all this message is obvious when full throttle and then complete release and back EMF power is high/long enough to show the error - but these voltage spikes happen at any time you release any power by pas or throttle it does not matter - and overvoltage goes back to controller - it can't go anywhere else caused by the diodes. my assumption: you don't have the EggRider for a very long time ?
my next assumption: one day these voltage spikes might kill your EggRider and perhaps your controller (better said your upper controller part's DC/DC converter - low voltage 5v line). so yes, your assumption in your first post was right - it probably will damage EggRider and perhaps even your controller. I highly recommend to use the DPC18 again which can "eat" the overvoltage and won't transfer it back to the controller. but hey, I could be wrong and it will work forever... I never tested it but logically thought this might be the consequence...

 

[Kormyr]

I think that the message appeared after this exact scenario. Full throttle and then complete release.
It means that for standard pedal assist this issue should not happen?
If yes, I may just refrain from using the throttle and let it as it is. Or just be more gentle with the throttle.

I have also another question for urban users. Which tyres do you recommend for speed and power efficiency on road only use?

first of all this message is obvious when full throttle and then complete release and back EMF power is high/long enough to show the error - but these voltage spikes happen at any time you release any power by pas or throttle it does not matter - and overvoltage goes back to controller - it can't go anywhere else caused by the diodes. my assumption: you don't have the EggRider for a very long time ?
my next assumption: one day these voltage spikes might kill your EggRider and perhaps your controller (better said your upper controller part's DC/DC converter - low voltage 5v line). so yes, your assumption in your first post was right - it probably will damage EggRider and perhaps even your controller. I highly recommend to use the DPC18 again which can "eat" the overvoltage and won't transfer it back to the controller. but hey, I could be wrong and it will work forever... I never tested it but logically thought this might be the consequence...

Thanks for all these details.
For the moment I will use the bike in single battery configuration just to be on the safe side.
I hope that later there will be a device that provides the same features as EggRider but with DPC-18 level of protection.
A software or physical switch between batteries would have been enough for me, I am a bit disappointed by this "incompatibility" between Frey Dual Battery and EggRider...

 

[barbarossa]

I think that the message appeared after this exact scenario. Full throttle and then complete release.
It means that for standard pedal assist this issue should not happen?
If yes, I may just refrain from using the throttle and let it as it is. Or just be more gentle with the throttle.

I have also another question for urban users. Which tyres do you recommend for speed and power efficiency on road only use?

first of all this message is obvious when full throttle and then complete release and back EMF power is high/long enough to show the error - but these voltage spikes happen at any time you release any power by pas or throttle it does not matter - and overvoltage goes back to controller - it can't go anywhere else caused by the diodes. my assumption: you don't have the EggRider for a very long time ?
my next assumption: one day these voltage spikes might kill your EggRider and perhaps your controller (better said your upper controller part's DC/DC converter - low voltage 5v line). so yes, your assumption in your first post was right - it probably will damage EggRider and perhaps even your controller. I highly recommend to use the DPC18 again which can "eat" the overvoltage and won't transfer it back to the controller. but hey, I could be wrong and it will work forever... I never tested it but logically thought this might be the consequence...

Thanks for all these details.
For the moment I will use the bike in single battery configuration just to be on the safe side.
I hope that later there will be a device that provides the same features as EggRider but with DPC-18 level of protection.
A software or physical switch between batteries would have been enough for me, I am a bit disappointed by this "incompatibility" between Frey Dual Battery and EggRider...

unfortunately it is not that easy and NOT depending on single or dual battery configuration. Each battery has its own diode - there are 2 diodes. so the problem occurs in single and dual configuration unless you remove internal's battery diode in single battery configuration. or easy said: "incompatibility" between Frey Dual AND Single Battery and EggRider...

 

[Stealth_Chopper]

You already bought & waiting delivery, seems to be depreciating by the day.

I asked the manufacturer Frey about the new CANbus motors. They said that in the near future all ULTRA motors will be with CANbus. This will not allow programming the motor or using the EGGrider.

Any idea whether "in the near future" means 'bikes we're still putting together now', or whether it means 'we expect to start using those soon, so order one of the remaining old ones ASAP'?

Perhaps a better question would be "Do you have any UART programmable G510s in stock & if so how many of those could we order right now?" ;D

At the time I asked about programmability on the AM1000, Frey offered a programming cable which I did add to our order, but the lot is not due to ship until middle of October... If it doesn't support the settings I asked about I'll be sorely disappointed! (In particular, the PAS & Torque tabs.)

As it is, feels like Bafang is killing much of the appeal of their motors in the future; or at least their controllers? (Do they even sell Ultras without a controller? I didn't see that on their site.) Without the ability to fine-tune a motor's response for each bike+rider setup (or even for changes to that setup!) they'll underperform chronically, & then be all the more worthless for use on other builds. I can't imagine a locked down CANBus motor retaining anywhere near the resale value of a UART programmable one.

I would not choose to buy a bike with a Bafang drive that cannot be tuned.

 

[ProphetZarquon]

You already bought & waiting delivery, seems to be depreciating by the day.

I asked the manufacturer Frey about the new CANbus motors. They said that in the near future all ULTRA motors will be with CANbus. This will not allow programming the motor or using the EGGrider.

Any idea whether "in the near future" means 'bikes we're still putting together now', or whether it means 'we expect to start using those soon, so order one of the remaining old ones ASAP'?

Perhaps a better question would be "Do you have any UART programmable G510s in stock & if so how many of those could we order right now?" ;D

At the time I asked about programmability on the AM1000, Frey offered a programming cable which I did add to our order, but the lot is not due to ship until middle of October... If it doesn't support the settings I asked about I'll be sorely disappointed! (In particular, the PAS & Torque tabs.)

As it is, feels like Bafang is killing much of the appeal of their motors in the future; or at least their controllers? (Do they even sell Ultras without a controller? I didn't see that on their site.) Without the ability to fine-tune a motor's response for each bike+rider setup (or even for changes to that setup!) they'll underperform chronically, & then be all the more worthless for use on other builds. I can't imagine a locked down CANBus motor retaining anywhere near the resale value of a UART programmable one.

I would not choose to buy a bike with a Bafang drive that cannot be tuned.

Actually, given sparse availability of bike & ebike stuff in general, I'm feeling fine about it: I already knew it might not be programmable, & none of the comparable bikes come with a programmable controller in the first place! Prices are going up not down, batteries are in high demand (& we ordered two large ones that use decent cells), the bike components & e-kit alone are worth the price, & I still haven't seen anything I could afford that I definitely like better.

What I'm dreading is any damage in shipping or missing equipment. If what we ordered reaches FedEx by Oct 15th & is functional once assembled, I'll be satisfied. If it turns out any better than "functional", it'll be happy faces all around. I'm so used to disaster that I'm basically just obsessing over every possible point of failure; but so far it's been fine & the ebike is probably more than sufficient for the dual usage it'll see.

That said... "Uuuugh, port traffic sucks just as bad as commuter traffic! "

So yeah, pass the popcorn.

 

[Kormyr]

After a few hundred kilometers, my stock cassette (Shimano XT M8000) need replacement, the smallest sprocket is damaged.
I searched and found out I can buy only the sprocket and it is quite cheap. I don't know if it is easily replaceable on an existing cassette.
Also I plan to do ~200km per week, so I don't really want to replace it several times per month...

Some of you replaced it with SRAM EX1 which looks like a much better choice, is it really decreasing your cassette consumption?
And do you need the complete set or replacing the cassette and adjusting the existing chain is enough?

Did anybody go ahead and tried a (costly) upgrade with IGH + Gates Carbon Drive on a AM1000 or AM1000EX?
It seems that for the IGH, this one seems perfect for Bafang Ultra: https://kindernay.com/products/complete-gear-hub/product-landing-kindernay-xiv/
Of course I guess this would mean some tweaking and maybe custom parts to fit correctly.

 

[Hardcore]

Some of you replaced it with SRAM EX1 which looks like a much better choice, is it really decreasing your cassette consumption?
And do you need the complete set or replacing the cassette and adjusting the existing chain is enough?

Hi, I got the ex1 and have gone through 2 cassettes plus 4 sets of the lowest three sprockets (+4 chains) in 8500 km. I change the lowest three sprockets and the chain once they both are worn out.

I do have the older version bafang motor which came with a larger front sprocket (44T), which keeps me out of the smallest 11T. These 11Ts do wear out very quickly but are easy to replace.

Cheers

 

[Kormyr]

Thanks for the info.
My usage is almost road only and high speed.
I already upgraded from 40T to 44T and still need to use almost exclusively the lowest sprocket.
I may consider upgrading to 46T (I saw messages about users having this one, but you need to remove the guide), or even 48T (not sure of the biggest one that can fit).

You upgraded the EX1 after getting the bike? Do you have the full set or just the cassette?

 

[Hardcore]

Hi,

I have two AM1000s, one has the EX1 from the factory and consist of the complete groupset. The other, another family member uses mainly on roads but not at fast speeds and has the XTM8000.

Upgrading to the largest possible front sprocket might reduce your 11T usage, but will increase stress on the motor. The chain guide is not necessary for on-road use in my opinion as chain drops don't occur often. I've seen up to 46T on AM1000s, and only after modifications a 48T upfront on HT models.

That said, an alternative I found very helpful in reaching higher speeds is to reduce the crank length (not only beneficial for off-road pedal strike reduction), but nowadays both bikes have 152mm cranks which decreased the necessary RPMs significantly. An alternative is to use the motor's high RPM on the throttle to reduce the gearing, but I guess you want to keep pedalling.

Cheers,
hdr cr

 

[Hardcore]

Still working after several years of abuse in Switzerland, here the AM1000 in its natural habitat.

[youtube]VxvFxfNpH2Q[/youtube]

 

[leedavis]

Another worry free AM1000 still providing the fun with no more than routine maintenance after 5100mi/8200km. Here I'm following another rider.

[youtube]0iavuaFCrjc[/youtube]

 

[litespeed]

Cool video. I’m surprised you guys already lost all your leaves…….I’ve only seen literally a tree or two loose there’s here.

I’m not looking forward to the cold months here in Missouri.

Tom

 

[LARRYMAGOO]

Great woods-riding video! Can't believe how close it looked your bars were from some of those trees! That would surely spoil the ride...

Waiting to get my first eBike! Hoping for a Luna Cycle Apollo! Sounds like I'll be waiting quite a while though as they have no idea when more bikes will be ready.

Cheers,
Larry

 

[DaninSpain]

Hi guys.

Really sad to report my AM1000 frame broke this morning.
To say I'm feeling gutted is an understatement as I've really only used my bike on roads, with the worst the frame has had to endure are the odd speed bump.

Rather than sympathy, I guess I'm really looking for some advise on where to go from here. Has anyone else had the same problem and what did you do. I've just emailed Frey and to be honest, I'm feeling a bit nervous about their response, I'll update when they get back to me.

Any help would be truly appreciated.

Frey have very Kindly offered to send me a replacement frame free of charge including shipping.

I'm gutted that this has happened, but it has, and to be honest I could not have expected a better response from Frey. The bike is 3 1/2 years old, and although it's had an easy life (1600 road miles), Frey have no real obligation to me at this point in time. Their response to me is a reflection of how they run their business and view their customers

All I need now is to find someone qualified and willing to rebuild my bike

Will further update as the story progresses.

Finally the update to my story:

Frey did exactly as they promised and replaced my frame. They quickly forwarded me the shipping info and incredibly it arrived 2 days later.
As I am not set up to do a rebuild, I took it to my local bike shop who upon looking at the bike cooly decided it was something that they could do without too much complication. Very laid back about it, they told me it would take around 1 full days work. I was happy with that.
At the end of that week they called me in a state that I can only describe as not so cool anymore :lol:
They said they had been working on it for 3 days, the problem being was that the new frame (mk5) is very different to the original mk3 frame, which they weren't expecting and it was more of a challenge than they were expecting.
The good part is that they said the new mk5 frame is soooo much better than the old mk3 frame. The metal is much thicker and generally the frame is much stronger. Unfortunately they weren't very kind about the original frame saying it wasn't a surprise it broke as the metal was just too thin to handle the power of the motor.

Cost to me 400€ ($460) and I feel like I've got a new bike I couldn't be happier with this outcome.

I cannot fault Frey in their response to my issue and in general how they are evolving the AM1000. When I bought mine in early 2018 it was excellent value for money, but maybe a bit too good?
I understand the same model is nearly double the price these days, which I guess is the cost of improving the quality. Personally, if I was in the market for a new bike I would prefer to pay more and receive a higher quality product.

Frey have not in any way prompted me or requested me to post this update, in fact the last contact I had with Frey was Ivy sending me shipping details. It's just that I have experienced so few companies these days that would react to my issue as Frey (Ivy) has that I am more than happy to shout out about it.

I am back in love with my AM1000

 

[litespeed]

Love hearing a good story. Most forget the good and only relay the bad. I’d say this is a feather in the Frey/Ivy cap! Glad it worked out well for you.

Tom

 

[markz]

Yes you are right, its just human nature.

What I like about the ebike in Spain is its all black. How much can you hotrod the Bafang mid drive motor? I need at least 2kw for hub motor, so probably 1500w for mid drive.

Love hearing a good story. Most forget the good and only relay the bad. I’d say this is a feather in the Frey/Ivy cap! Glad it worked out well for you.

Tom

 

[ProphetZarquon]

Yes you are right, its just human nature.

What I like about the ebike in Spain is its all black. How much can you hotrod the Bafang mid drive motor? I need at least 2kw for hub motor, so probably 1500w for mid drive.

Frey's AM1000 draws ~1500W peak by default (750W nominal); *I believe that's with an ASI BAC855 motor controller onboard? *Wrong; Not sure what controller the Ultra uses? Doesn't seem to get warm, anyway.

With an aftermarket/modded controller, 3000W is fairly common (not many Bafang M620 out there in customizer's hands, yet!). 4000W is the highest I've seen done. Never yet seen report of one overheating; the controller or battery overheats long before the motor itself?

 

[ProphetZarquon]

Finally the update to my story:

Frey did exactly as they promised and replaced my frame. They quickly forwarded me the shipping info and incredibly it arrived 2 days later.
As I am not set up to do a rebuild, I took it to my local bike shop who upon looking at the bike cooly decided it was something that they could do without too much complication. Very laid back about it, they told me it would take around 1 full days work. I was happy with that.
At the end of that week they called me in a state that I can only describe as not so cool anymore :lol:
They said they had been working on it for 3 days, the problem being was that the new frame (mk5) is very different to the original mk3 frame, which they weren't expecting and it was more of a challenge than they were expecting.
The good part is that they said the new mk5 frame is soooo much better than the old mk3 frame. The metal is much thicker and generally the frame is much stronger. Unfortunately they weren't very kind about the original frame saying it wasn't a surprise it broke as the metal was just too thin to handle the power of the motor.

Cost to me 400€ ($460) and I feel like I've got a new bike I couldn't be happier with this outcome.

I cannot fault Frey in their response to my issue and in general how they are evolving the AM1000. When I bought mine in early 2018 it was excellent value for money, but maybe a bit too good?
I understand the same model is nearly double the price these days, which I guess is the cost of improving the quality. Personally, if I was in the market for a new bike I would prefer to pay more and receive a higher quality product.

Frey have not in any way prompted me or requested me to post this update, in fact the last contact I had with Frey was Ivy sending me shipping details. It's just that I have experienced so few companies these days that would react to my issue as Frey (Ivy) has that I am more than happy to shout out about it.

I am back in love with my AM1000

2021-10-08 16.00.55.jpg

Really glad to hear the new frame (eventually) went together OK, & especially that the newer frame appears sturdier made! (I just received our AM1000, today. Frame integrity has been one of my primary concerns & part of the reason I chose Frey was the reinforcements to the rear triangle. I have had rear triangles break before!)

What size frame did you get?

 

[Hardcore]

Yes you are right, its just human nature.

What I like about the ebike in Spain is its all black. How much can you hotrod the Bafang mid drive motor? I need at least 2kw for hub motor, so probably 1500w for mid drive.

Frey's AM1000 draws ~1500W peak by default (750W nominal); I believe that's with an ASI BAC855 motor controller onboard?

With an aftermarket/modded controller, 3000W is fairly common (not many Bafang M620 out there in customizer's hands, yet!). 4000W is the highest I've seen done. Never yet seen report of one overheating; the controller or battery overheats long before the motor itself?

The older motor versions didn't have overheat protection (no sensor I think) and I burned one under heavy load. This was replaced and all has been excellent ever since.

Cheers,
H

 

[kerim]

Hi first gen AM1000 owners,

The needle bearing in my Bafang Ultra went. I think it must have been due to the extreme wet conditions I have been riding the bike, because it has got under 1000 km on the clock. I am based in the north of England and the weather in winter can me horrendous. Here is the bearing:



I have now ordered a fancy SKF bearing for £8 plus a purpose built needle bearing seal for £6. I also noticed that the opposite bearing in the crank shaft (it’s a common ball bearing) does not look very good. I might replace that as well. Did any one else had problems with one of them?

Cheers,

Kerim

 

[Daxxie]

Hi first gen AM1000 owners,

The needle bearing in my Bafang Ultra went.
.............
Did any one else had problems with one of them?

Cheers,

Kerim

I think mine is also on its way out.
What symptoms did you have?
Planning to change all bearings on the axle.