My1020 / Kunray / YaLU 1000 - 2000W motor ?

[InterestedinEVs]

Check earlier in the thread.

 

[Matenstein]

So is anyone this motor with a kelly controller? I'm trying to set my up via the auto identity and that appears to cycle just fine. But when I try to bench run the motor I get high speed stutters with the rpms shooting all over the place. Funny thing is it worked fine when I first hooked it up and tried it with the previous motor setting but I thought it would be better off having the controller learn this actual motor.

I have tried a kunteng 72v 60a and a cyclone 72v 40a and neither one has worked. It works just fine at low rpm and draws 1 amp, but when I get up to 2000-3000 rpm it starts stutter suddenly and the amps go over 10. Happens with both controllers and I have no clue. No load either.

 

[Matenstein]

I have a Kunray 60v 2500w motor I am working with. I have scope traces. I ran a bosch cordless drill. I'm guessing I was around 1000 rpm. I captured the halls and the waveform. I was running a foc sin controller. Didn't work out so well. The traces were not smooth. They were consistent from phase to phase though. Theory is that the controller was trying to make the motor run smooth, but the it couldn't filter the wave. I can either buy a trap controller that doesn't really care about exactly what the motor is doing. I mean that a trap controller may not read back the distortion coming from the trace and just go off the halls so its not trying to filter it.

I had to take the pics a few times. The scope screen frequency was making the traces light or not there at all so in the phone. Thats why they look dark and light.

hall y vs y+ g-_c.jpg
hall b vs b+ y-_c.jpg
hall g vs g+b-_c.jpg

I didn't snap pics of the scope connected while the controller was running, but I did see the distortion in the trace at the top. The motor stuttered when it got over 1000 rpm. I switched around the phase wires trying to get it smoother and got to 2000 rpm before it stuttered. I could start doing the 36 hall phase combos, but I think I will get a motor that's cleaner and ready to run with the controller (KLS-S).

Any idea about fixing the stuttering problem?

 

[GoldenBunip]

I have a kelly controller running a BLDC MY1020. The trick is to use 12v for the hall sensors and not the standard 5v.
There is a 12v out on the kelly controller you just need to swap over the wires.

 

[Quinc]

Picked up a 60v 2500w motor I want to run at 72v 300a bms to try and get as many rpms as possible. Plan is to wrap it with copper tubing and thermal paste for cooling. And trying to get as much power out of it as possible. Any recommendations on a controller? Right now I am leaning toward a kelly kvd. Also any tips from anyone that has gone the copper tubing route?

controller:
Motor Current Limit, 30 seconds: 220A
Motor Current Limit, continuous: 75A
https://kellycontroller.com/shop/kvd/

Motor:
Specs:
- 60V DC
- Rated 2500 Watt, 50 amps
- Max 5200 RPM
- Chain drive (11 teeth sprocket) #T8F chain 8mm pitch
- Type of motor: DC, Brushless (BLDC)
- Reversible

Dimensions:
- Diameter: 4 1/4"
- Length (no shaft): 4 7/8"
- Length (with shaft): 5 7/8"

 

[Ianhill]

Ill have a bet with you, u will get about 3 seconds before it melts the phase wires and end turns to bits on 300amp after 80 amp battery the rotor torque doesnt increase the motor just gets hotter same for the rpm after 8krpm the eddys take over motor gets to hot.

You have more than trippled my max ever ive used in one of these motors and i got less than 300 miles out of that and i was nannying it much as i could.

With a good sinewave controller i could see a little more power than i pumped in with a trapiz controller but maybe 180 phase amps would give a max 10 second burst current but dont go trying 300 battery amps without a welding mask and shield of some sort you may have metal fragments shot into the air from a catastrophic self deconstruction.

 

[Quinc]

Ill have a bet with you, u will get about 3 seconds before it melts the phase wires and end turns to bits on 300amp after 80 amp battery the rotor torque doesnt increase the motor just gets hotter same for the rpm after 8krpm the eddys take over motor gets to hot.

You have more than trippled my max ever ive used in one of these motors and i got less than 300 miles out of that and i was nannying it much as i could.

With a good sinewave controller i could see a little more power than i pumped in with a trapiz controller but maybe 180 phase amps would give a max 10 second burst current but dont go trying 300 battery amps without a welding mask and shield of some sort you may have metal fragments shot into the air from a catastrophic self deconstruction.

Good to know! My plan is to start off with the controller set around 75amps and work my way up. Hoping with it being liquid cooled I can squeeze a little more out of her.

 

[Braddudya]

I know this thread is almost a year old but I am hoping to hear some updates from the posters here. Did anyone figure out how to get these motors to run nicely with an advanced controller? Or how to get them to run as well backwards as forwards?

I have one of the 3000W Vevor kits in a KTM pitbike. I have tried every combination of phase wires and hall sensors possible! It works great once you get going but when you first take off it cogs like crazy. You have to baby the throttle until you are underway and then its fine. The controller is just the generic "sinewave" controller from the kit. Its quite loud so im not sure I buy the sinewave part.

Video of cogging on takeoff
https://streamable.com/98lx4n

Video of running at speed
https://streamable.com/xr5ifx

I revived this post hoping to find out if I am just doomed using this motor backwards or if I might be able to fix it with a new controller.

 

[amberwolf]

Is your motor also built like this:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=252765

with a bunch of different places for the halls to be installed?

If so,it looks like some of the slots are offset from "centered" and would possibly cause non-neutral timing.

If yours are installed in those, moving them to the centered slots may cause the motor to operate neutrally. (I haven't tried to work out what the proper placement would be for the halls in this motor...but it is worth an experiment if you have the means and time).


Before changing anything I would recommend posting good clear well-lit pics of how your halls are already installed, in case others with more experience in motor design drop by to help.

 

[Braddudya]

Is your motor also built like this:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=252765
IMG_20181012_121104[1].jpg
with a bunch of different places for the halls to be installed?

If so,it looks like some of the slots are offset from "centered" and would possibly cause non-neutral timing.

If yours are installed in those, moving them to the centered slots may cause the motor to operate neutrally. (I haven't tried to work out what the proper placement would be for the halls in this motor...but it is worth an experiment if you have the means and time).


Before changing anything I would recommend posting good clear well-lit pics of how your halls are already installed, in case others with more experience in motor design drop by to help.

I will try pulling the motor apart tonight after work. I would really like to get to the bottom of this as I am fairly impressed with this dirt cheap setup...other than this issue of course

 

[Braddudya]

From this side the rotation in the stock config would be counter clockwise. My desired rotation that doesn't seem to work very well would be clockwise.

I do not have the experience to know exactly how these are normally placed but they certainly don't seem to be neutrally timed.

 

[amberwolf]

I think that the slight offset from centered on the tooth changes them from neutral timing.

There are two relatively simple ways to test.

The first easiest is to move the halls over one slot each so they are all in the apparently-centered slots in the middle of each tooth. It looks like they are friction fit in place rather than glued, so you may be able to carefully slide them out to move them over...halls are fragile where the leads go into the plastic case, so be careful or you'll have to solder in new ones. :/

The one that might work best (assuming there's a reason they are between teeth) is to modify one set of three offset notches so they are widened enough to be able to center the hall in them relative to the divider between stator teeth. It's not as easy or fast, though, and you would need to glue the sensors in place (even temporary glue would be enough for a quick test, as long as they are secure).


In either case, make sure you move only one hall at a time, so you keep them in the same order they are in now, and make sure you keep each of them facing the same way they are now (looks like all are number-side-toward-rotor?).


Others may have better suggestions for specific hall placement (I know there is at least one entire thread about that sort of thing somewhere around here).

 

[Braddudya]

I think that the slight offset from centered on the tooth changes them from neutral timing.

There are two relatively simple ways to test.

The first easiest is to move the halls over one slot each so they are all in the apparently-centered slots in the middle of each tooth. It looks like they are friction fit in place rather than glued, so you may be able to carefully slide them out to move them over...halls are fragile where the leads go into the plastic case, so be careful or you'll have to solder in new ones. :/

The one that might work best (assuming there's a reason they are between teeth) is to modify one set of three offset notches so they are widened enough to be able to center the hall in them relative to the divider between stator teeth. It's not as easy or fast, though, and you would need to glue the sensors in place (even temporary glue would be enough for a quick test, as long as they are secure).


In either case, make sure you move only one hall at a time, so you keep them in the same order they are in now, and make sure you keep each of them facing the same way they are now (looks like all are number-side-toward-rotor?).


Others may have better suggestions for specific hall placement (I know there is at least one entire thread about that sort of thing somewhere around here).

I was very curious about the placement. I've seen them on the center of the plates or in between the plates (like this) and even one example both!

I would love to know what neutral spacing would be so I can just use most quality controllers in either direction. I also don't want to break it trying a bunch of different things. If we can get some sort of consensus on what is neutral I will go for it even if it means cutting and glue. I am quite capable and have a machine shop.

I'm curious if neutral timing is shifting them slightly to center them between the plates or if I need to relocate them to the centers.

 

[amberwolf]

I've seen them on the center of the plates or in between the plates (like this) and even one example both!

Some motors use one in the middle of a tooth and the other two between them, or vice-versa. The ones I've seen are usually ones iwth many more poles (like typical outrunner hubmotors).

WHere exactly they go depends on hte number of poles and teeth and such but I just dont' remember how to determine it.


The ones with them all in the same relative position to each tooth (like this one) can be on a tooth or between them, and I think (but am not certain) that whenever they are offset from the center of either a tooth or the space between, that they are non-neutral timing. I don't know which is advanced or retarded timing, though, as I really only dealt with brushed motors for that, and that was about a decade or more ago.

 

[Braddudya]

I'm realizing now that because the stator has an odd number of windings that you can put them on the gaps and it makes no difference vs putting them on the actual plates. If you put them on the plates they signal that specific plate timing. If you put them on the gaps they signal the plate timing on the opposite side of the stator. So if I were to move the hall sensors to the centers it should make no difference in terms of functioning. What I need to do is simply move the hall sensors that 1 or 2 degrees over to give it neutral timing.

Does this make sense? Seems to to me haha

 

[Braddudya]

Actually I had another thought. If I move all of the hall sensors one notch over so they are each in the middle of the stator segments, that would essentially flip the direction of the motor and keep the advance but for the reverse direction! This should mirror the motor and give me a motor that is still not neutrally timed but actually tuned for the reverse direction with the advance.

Unless someone tells me I am dead wrong this is what I am going to try.

Edit: I fiddled with the hall sensors and they are glued in. I know they are delicate so I went ahead and ordered more.

HONEYWELL S&C SS41 IC, HALL EFFECT SENSOR, BIPOLAR, TO-92-3 (5 pieces) https://a.co/d/0mjTXL3

My plan is to just install an additional set of sensors in the manner I just described and transfer over the wires. This way I can just switch it back more easily if it doesn't work.

From my research on here and other forums a LOT of people have run into problems with these motors running them backwards. It would be pretty cool to solve this issue and make these cheap motors more usable. They are commonly run backwards in go-karts and ATVs as well.

 

[Braddudya]

I was able to shift the hall sensors over to the middle of the plates last night. I was not able to get it to run better but I may not have had the right phase and hall wire combination.

Going to keep trying it but I am kind of running blind right now haha. I will update if I have success

 

[Ianhill]

I didnt have no timing issues with my motor but i did find that the rotors spline and shaft was starting to slip on eachother so a full power start would make a sensation simular to cogging took a full strip down to work it out as i buttered up the shunt and was not sure if it was controller related or motor but turned out to be the shaft only on high load starts etc and nothing terrible it would rarely do it then i melted it out so i didnt replace as the ride as a whole was failing anyway been through a thunder storm up the mountain was no place for diy battery from rc lipo.

 

[Braddudya]

No luck to report. I don't think it's the shaft slipping but I guess it's possible. I think I am going to get a new controller and try that. Worst case scenario it doesn't work but I have a better controller for the future. Any recommendations? I was looking at the Kelly KLS sinusoidal drivers. I was also considering the more simple square wave controllers. I would like something that is rated for more power than I need so I can expanded and/or not push it to ita limit.

 

[Quinc]

Anyone notice that after about a year or two of heavy use the motors power starts to drop off significantly? Anyone have a 48v/2000w motor they recommend that will last longer than a year or two? I have tried taking it apart and cleaning it, re-greasing the bearings etc but not change.

I may also abuse it a bit more than I should.
[youtube]SNfqoECroak[/youtube]

 

[Ianhill]

Anyone notice that after about a year or two of heavy use the motors power starts to drop off significantly? Anyone have a 48v/2000w motor they recommend that will last longer than a year or two? I have tried taking it apart and cleaning it, re-greasing the bearings etc but not change.

I may also abuse it a bit more than I should.
[youtube]SNfqoECroak[/youtube]

Sounds like you have demag issues with the rotor.
Simple terms the magnets have a rated max temp high amps can warm them beyond that point and the magnetism strength begins to drop.
Basiclly you have likely run to hard for to long worked the motor beyond its rated continous output.

 

[marka-ee]

old thread, but I just noticed that some versions of these motors now have a built-in internal fan. Plus, drilling out the salt shaker-sized holes on the side covers is the obvious addition. I guess they don't do it because they're afraid of dirt getting into the motor, which would warrant a filter of some sort, but that's doable.

 

[Jeff23spl]

I didn't find an answer about difference from 48v 2000w to 72v 3000w. According to rpm spec, it would have different winding kV but it is strange....
The 48v ran at 72v would spin faster than the 72v rated one (5700/48v x 72v = 8550rpm free) and (4300/48*72 = 6450rpm loaded) This should usually mean the 48v 2000w has a higher kV but that same 2000w 48v get more torque with 42a (6.9nm) than the 3000w at 45a (5.4nm)
Can someone explain this to me? i checked many website selling them and it is the same spec everywhere...

according to specs the 48v would be better than the 72v overall but risky for the magnets if you try to free spin it at 20s +/-80v

there is also a more expensive version with a larger cable and a temp sensor. i wonder if it is the only difference since you could find the black wire for very cheap and the orange is more expensive everywhere i found it.

I already run a black cable 48v 2000w from veyvor at about 2500w 15s 40-42a with a better generic ebike controller and it doesn't heat up much with 100pound kick scooter +142 with me. It is geared to reach 50kmh at this time.

I plan to try the orange cable with a fardriver 80a controller and 20s pack on a similar ride for more acceleration and top speed to chase thermal scooters but i'm not decided yet between the 2000w 48 and 3000w 72v. The 72v came with a cheaper kit than buying the 48v separated but the 48 seem better...
Any clue ?


Specs from Kunray website that are the same for black and orange cable
48V 2000W:

Type:High Speed DC Motor for Razor upgrades

Voltage:48V

Rated Power: 2000W

Rated Current: 42A

Max Torque: 6.9N.m

Max Speed: 5700r/min

Rated Speed:4300r/min

Length: 166mm

Diameter: 107 mm

Net weight: 5.5 kg
Material: High Quality Aluminum Motor And High Qulity Rotor Magnet All Copper.

72V 3000W:
Type: High Speed DC Motor for Razor upgrades

Voltage: 72V

Rated Power: 3000W
Rated Current: 45A

Max Torque: 5.4N.

Max Speed: 6700 r/min

Rated Speed:4900 r/min

Length: 166mm

Diameter: 107 mm

Net weight: 5.5 kg

 

[Ianhill]

Id suggest kunray has basiclly shown they have little test data to share as the spec dont make any sence like u say as there can not be 1250w input difference yet less overall hp been created thats far to large a difference for a winding difference helping to increase efficency for the 48v and not 72v to make up for.

Its been so long ago since i worked on one these motors i can not remember if they used a thicker winding or less turns to alter the kv or a mixture of both, but i did use to run nearly 7kw at one and it took me 48mph over mountain roads for 20 mins or so before i cooked it andbi weighed around 155 at the time, pmsl i wish now 10 years flown by.

 

[reneclaus11]

Ill necro this thread with some general information and updates on this motor.

The company that makes yulan/kunray produces a big chunk of brushless motors in china, specifically the ones in small trikes and small agricultural vehicles, those types of vehicles are really popular in east and south Asia.

As far as europe goes, you can find them resold under the VEVOR brand name, and you can get them for as low as 80-90$ on a ali express sale, they sell off like hotcakes though so you gotta keep an eye for restocking.

This specific model of motor departs from the traditional geared/reduction bldc motors that made the company popular and it caters to the diy and conversion community.

There are three distinct versions of this motor, one is a small sub 1000w that usually comes with a black body, theres a 1000-1800w version, and there is a newer and currently more prominent version that starts from 2000w 48v and goes all the way up to 3000w 72v, as far as the last version goes i think they just slightly modify the windings to achieve different voltage ratings.

Those motors use a double d bore 10mn by 8mm sprocket type and it either fits a 25h or t8f type of chain.
As far as prebuilt choices go, those chain systems are the most popular for small projects on sites like aliexpress,
The biggest motorbike wheels i've seen that fit this system is the "12.5 2.75" wheel, there is also a bigger "2.50-10" but with more limited sprocket support.
For scooter and other similar projects the "3.00-4 Electric Scooter wheel (with the offroad tread)" is basically the best and most robust wheel of its kind, both wheel types I've tested.

I don't recommend the 25H chain system on this motor, as this motor can push its limits, as far as t8f the smaller motor pinion you can get is 9t, and rear sprocket is 64t, there is also an elusive 74t.

Other than those wheels, there is also compatible rear axles like the 540mm and 620mm go kart solid rear axles, and there is also a freewheel rear sprocket adapter system for bicycles and stuff.
There are also sprockets for the 420 chain and other 4xx chain systems, that are more popular for bigger medium motorbikes and wheels.

Now on the motor itself, those motors are heavy and built like a tank, they are known to be able to far exceed their rated wattage, the torque especially can reach 20Nm and above on the 48v model which has the highest torque rating of all.
They are very reliable and their low pricetag is a marvel of economies of scale. I have bought 30 of them over the years.

I think the weakest part of its construction is the bearings, there is some lack of precision going on there, you can only ever notice if you remove one of the caps and check how the rotor wobbles around on one of the bearings, but it goes away when the motor is assembled and both bearings are on, I think the company making them can get away with this because its meant for chain drive so this sort of stuff is not as noticeable.

Another thing, is the hall sensors, im not sure whats wrong with them but it really seems they don't make a big difference over running it sensorless, i haven't noticed any cogging and stuff, I usually run those motors with vesc and it really makes not much of a difference, as far as the esc goes, the ones that come with the motor are decent and usually come bundled along with the motor for very little extra money comparted to buying them separately, ive burned quite a few of them, as far as aftermarket vescs go the older vesc version like the 5v and are completely broken so much so you risk burning the motor if you run it on them, the modern ones work really well with FOC even when sensorless.

My oldest setup is a flipsky 75100 v1 with the upgraded firmware, on 14s 80amp bms battery, and has been going strong for 3 years now and counting, motor serviced and cleaned once.

To close things off, to this day this motor is the best if not only option for entry diy and conversion stuff. kunray keeps supporting and producing this motor, a few months ago they came out with a new heatshink for it, they also came out with a beefed up version of this motor called krv5 (#35 chain) that goes for 260$ and can approach 8kw of power, far above its rating.